The Gaming Lounge: Beyond - Part 6

[SpideyVille]

It's definitely unprofessional, but still kinda funny to see someone in such a position act so childish. Although I do agree, the WiiU is crap.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Haha, the Wii U could be one of the biggest blunders in recent memory. That system dropped about 5 years too late. EA wont be the last publisher/developer to abandon that platform. Better consoles exist now and much better consoles are about to hit the market in a few months.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I don't think the WiiU is crap, Nintendo wanted to give 3rd party developers the spotlight at launch but they just pushed out ports of 2-year-old games. I haven't had much of a chance to play mine since I had a lot of work and then my basement (where I have all my systems set-up) got flooded and everything is packed up now.

I'm not expecting massive hype at the new Xbox of PS4 launches. I think those days are over. I think people will be more reluctant to drop even $300+ for a new console.

I just find it hilarious that the WiiU is getting all these doom projections when the Vita is the bigger disaster.

 

[SpideyVille]

Haha, the Wii U could be one of the biggest blunders in recent memory. That system dropped about 5 years too late. EA wont be the last publisher/developer to abandon that platform. Better consoles exist now and much better consoles are about to hit the market in a few months.

You know, given what Spidey-Bat said, I think I'll take back my statement a bit. The Wii was probably the bigger piece of crap. Like you said, the Wii U is really 5 years too late, but its what the Wii should have been.

I don't think the WiiU is crap, Nintendo wanted to give 3rd party developers the spotlight at launch but they just pushed out ports of 2-year-old games. I haven't had much of a chance to play mine since I had a lot of work and then my basement (where I have all my systems set-up) got flooded and everything is packed up now.

I'm not expecting massive hype at the new Xbox of PS4 launches. I think those days are over. I think people will be more reluctant to drop even $300+ for a new console.

I just find it hilarious that the WiiU is getting all these doom projections when the Vita is the bigger disaster.

The Vita hasn't been successful either, but its a lot different for a handheld to tank than it is for a console. Its like the consoles are the Big Leagues, and the handhelds are the Minors. Not to mention, the problem isn't the hardware itself, but rather the library and how developers just don't know how to put their games on it while still trying to keep the console feel. Hence why Nintendo has always been great in that area, since they create games specifically for the DS/3DS, as opposed to porting console versions. But the consoles won't have this problem for long. Just a CoD game alone would be enough to sell systems if enough people move onto it right away.

And I still think PS4 and the Next-Box will do alright critically and financially in the long run. I heard some numbers on an IGN podcast last week about how the number of sales for consoles in each generation has continued to increase and I realized that its not because consoles/games are more popular. Its because the gamers of old have grown up and most have continued their love for gaming, while the newer generations have started with it and their parents are buying them for them. Not to mention, there's always those coolections and fanboys who must camp out for days to get their hands on the system right away. The only thing I can see hurting Sony/Microsoft is poor management and advertising, and of course, a system that just doesn't work.

 

[Fading]

I think that has to do with what the WiiU is the successor of. People were very doom and gloom with the PS3 too, given it followed the PS2 (best selling home console of all time). The Wii followed a mediocre selling Gamecube, and easily busted all expectations. The WiiU then followed it, and is doing quite a bit worse in several areas, and getting the PS3 treatment.

The Vita is following the PSP, which wasn't a super seller either. Nintendo just has too strong of a grasp on the handheld market. I think people aren't trashing the Vita worse because it was expected. No matter how superior it's tech, I think everyone knew the Vita didn't stand a chance in sales, nor had their hopes too high for it. It doesn't mean there weren't people really excited to own one (I was at one point), it's just expectations for it's sales performance were realistic.



I don't think WiiU failing would be the end of Nintendo in the least. The Wii is the first time since the SNES that Nintendo has been back on top of the heap, yet Nintendo stayed profitable all these years regardless.

I think another part of being down on the WiiU has to do with disappointment in how Nintendo handled it, at least it is on my part. I typically grab a Nintendo system for cheap late in it's life cycle to at least play a Zelda game. The Wii drew 0 interest for me, so I figured I'd grab whatever nextgen console they came out with, and play what I missed on the Wii on that (assuming a rerelease, or backwards compatibility). The WiiU sadly is shaping up as an even bigger disappointment for me than the Wii was though.

It's hardware is barely better than 6 year old consoles, with their nextgen brothers on the way out. It's touchscreen gimmick is already on other gaming machines (unlike motion controls which, even if implemented poorly most of the time, felt more fresh). It's marketing treated it as if it were an add-on instead of a full blown new console, leading Nintendo to have to send out letters to Wii owners to assure them it's a new console. The launch titles are Wii rehashes repackaged (which is the biggest disappointment for me, Wii severely lacked quality AAA titles, IMO), with a few 3rd party leftovers tossed in.

I think the WiiU can recover, and Nintendo will no doubt still profit, but Nintendo botched it from top to bottom this time around. I just don't see them having Wii success this time, which opens the doors for Sony, Microsoft, and other new contenders .

 

[Havok83]

Haha, the Wii U could be one of the biggest blunders in recent memory. That system dropped about 5 years too late. EA wont be the last publisher/developer to abandon that platform. Better consoles exist now and much better consoles are about to hit the market in a few months.

For EA to pull out now says alot. The Wii U for all intents and purposes is a current gen ssytem and you would think as long as the 360 and PS3 are around and getting software, that those games would all be ported to the Wii U. I wouldnt expect a drop off until developers move away from current gen systems and focus solely on next gen. EA's like nope, its not even worth our time to port over the games that the system can handle. Unless theres a massive boost in hardware sales this holiday season, I dont see them turning around and going back to the Wii U. Considering they are one of the major 3rd party publisher, this is an awful blow to Nintendo

 

[Spidey-Bat]

The only thing I can see hurting Sony/Microsoft is poor management and advertising, and of course, a system that just doesn't work.

Well, we already know Sony has poor management.

 

[Soapy]

I think a lot of these publishers and developers are going to regret slagging the Wii U so badly if they start hemorrhaging money because their ultra-expensive AAAA games aren't selling what they need to because the PS4 and Durango didn't take off like they thought they would.

Which in my opinion is a very real possibility.

 

[zenith16]

I think a lot of these publishers and developers are going to regret slagging the Wii U so badly if they start hemorrhaging money because their ultra-expensive AAAA games aren't selling what they need to because the PS4 and Durango didn't take off like they thought they would.

Which in my opinion is a very real possibility.

Like I always said your a wise man. We'll just have to see what price they do put on those consoles though

 

[ProjectPat2280]

I think a lot of these publishers and developers are going to regret slagging the Wii U so badly if they start hemorrhaging money because their ultra-expensive AAAA games aren't selling what they need to because the PS4 and Durango didn't take off like they thought they would.

Which in my opinion is a very real possibility.

I dont get what that has to do with the Wii U. The Wii U isn't a next gen console and has a pathetically small install base by comparison(thats not going be growing any time soon), so if the next gen doesnt take off, they can just keep developing for the 360/ps3. They still dont need the Wii U.

Or do you mean by leaving the Wii U, theyll regret not having that one extra console when the next gen doesnt take off? That makes sense, but again with the small user base of the Wii U im not sure it matters all that much overall

 

[zenith16]

It may have to do with the fact that alot of people aren't willing to spend above 300$ for a console any more and the issue with we're still in danger of a recession, which people are still freaked about among others.people are using that as a plausible reason to be careful with their money.

 

[Iceman]

I just find it hilarious that the WiiU is getting all these doom projections when the Vita is the bigger disaster.

Vita's last month figures were terrible yes (about 1/6 of 3DS!). It's getting less coverage because people are generally less interested in hearing about handhelds. Wii U last month sales (estimated 55k in US) were crap though once again and the system is in trouble as any neutral analyst will say looking at the figures and the upcoming competition.

 

[Iceman]

You know, given what Spidey-Bat said, I think I'll take back my statement a bit. The Wii was probably the bigger piece of crap. Like you said, the Wii U is really 5 years too late, but its what the Wii should have been.


The Vita hasn't been successful either, but its a lot different for a handheld to tank than it is for a console. Its like the consoles are the Big Leagues, and the handhelds are the Minors. Not to mention, the problem isn't the hardware itself, but rather the library and how developers just don't know how to put their games on it while still trying to keep the console feel. Hence why Nintendo has always been great in that area, since they create games specifically for the DS/3DS, as opposed to porting console versions. But the consoles won't have this problem for long. Just a CoD game alone would be enough to sell systems if enough people move onto it right away.

And I still think PS4 and the Next-Box will do alright critically and financially in the long run. I heard some numbers on an IGN podcast last week about how the number of sales for consoles in each generation has continued to increase and I realized that its not because consoles/games are more popular. Its because the gamers of old have grown up and most have continued their love for gaming, while the newer generations have started with it and their parents are buying them for them. Not to mention, there's always those coolections and fanboys who must camp out for days to get their hands on the system right away. The only thing I can see hurting Sony/Microsoft is poor management and advertising, and of course, a system that just doesn't work.

It's a good point. The parents of my generation never played video games! But my kid's generation will have many sets of parents who play video games even if their kids don't!

 

[Soapy]

I dont get what that has to do with the Wii U. The Wii U isn't a next gen console and has a pathetically small install base by comparison(thats not going be growing any time soon), so if the next gen doesnt take off, they can just keep developing for the 360/ps3. They still dont need the Wii U.

First off, the Wii U is absolutely a next gen console. Console generations aren't determined by the strength of the hardware, but by successive hardware releases.

Last generation: Game Boy Advance, Dreamcast, Playstation 2, Xbox, GameCube.

Current generation: DS, PSP, Xbox 360, Playstation 3, Wii.

Next generation: 3DS, Vita, Wii U, Durango, Playstation 4.

It has to do with the Wii U because publishers have chosen to outright ignore the Wii U in favor of betting it all on PS4 and Durango. If those two consoles fail to catch on like the Wii U, the publishers will look like complete fools and be in a real bad way by having pigeonholed themselves into developing super expensive games for consoles that theoretically might not have an install base much larger than the Wii U's.

Even if all the publishers ever ended up doing with it was release crap shovelware for it like they did for the original Wii, by not supporting the Wii U in the present and helping to grow its install base, they've damaged not only Nintendo's, but their own future prospects as well.

And there's no way they would abandon an entire generation of hardware and go back to PS3 and 360. That's unprecedented and would cause some serious ****ing market confusion.

 

[Iceman]

It has to do with the Wii U because publishers have chosen to outright ignore the Wii U in favor of betting it all on PS4 and Durango. If those two consoles fail to catch on like the Wii U, the publishers will look like complete fools and be in a real bad way by having pigeonholed themselves into developing super expensive games for consoles that theoretically might not have an install base much larger than the Wii U's.

Even if all the publishers ever ended up doing with it was release crap shovelware for it like they did for the original Wii, by not supporting the Wii U in the present and helping to grow its install base, they've damaged not only Nintendo's, but their own future prospects as well.

And there's no way they would abandon an entire generation of hardware and go back to PS3 and 360. That's unprecedented and would cause some serious ****ing market confusion.

The wii U needs at least the promise of a large install base before ignoring it matters. The developers can always start developing for it later if the platform takes off (although the vicious circle of the developers pulling out will probably make it unlikely).

Ignoring the 360 & PS3 in favour of PS4 & Durango is the gamble. And until that gamble becomes more of a sure bet I think many developers will continue releasing at least some titles for the old gen or both gens. The thing is tech is key no matter how often people deny this. PS3 was in a wii U type early sales situation but it wasn't the same as the magic was still under the hood. All it needed was a price correction for people to want it again. Wii U might seem irrelevant right now but in 3 or 4 years when PS4 & next Xbox are cheaper and the games full on next gen quality (& the PS3 & 360 available with huge libraries for dirt cheap), it will be irrelevant.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

It's possible.

Publishers and devs are gonna have to figure out how to cut cost without sacrificing quality. It can be done as some devs are doing it now, but that's gonna have to become the norm.

Some Developrs have done well at doing it, most notably Skyrim. They sacrificed detailed for other areas, and it paid off, proving that single players games can become huge sellers.

I think that has to do with what the WiiU is the successor of. People were very doom and gloom with the PS3 too, given it followed the PS2 (best selling home console of all time). The Wii followed a mediocre selling Gamecube, and easily busted all expectations. The WiiU then followed it, and is doing quite a bit worse in several areas, and getting the PS3 treatment.

The Vita is following the PSP, which wasn't a super seller either. Nintendo just has too strong of a grasp on the handheld market. I think people aren't trashing the Vita worse because it was expected. No matter how superior it's tech, I think everyone knew the Vita didn't stand a chance in sales, nor had their hopes too high for it. It doesn't mean there weren't people really excited to own one (I was at one point), it's just expectations for it's sales performance were realistic.



I don't think WiiU failing would be the end of Nintendo in the least. The Wii is the first time since the SNES that Nintendo has been back on top of the heap, yet Nintendo stayed profitable all these years regardless.

I think another part of being down on the WiiU has to do with disappointment in how Nintendo handled it, at least it is on my part. I typically grab a Nintendo system for cheap late in it's life cycle to at least play a Zelda game. The Wii drew 0 interest for me, so I figured I'd grab whatever nextgen console they came out with, and play what I missed on the Wii on that (assuming a rerelease, or backwards compatibility). The WiiU sadly is shaping up as an even bigger disappointment for me than the Wii was though.

It's hardware is barely better than 6 year old consoles, with their nextgen brothers on the way out. It's touchscreen gimmick is already on other gaming machines (unlike motion controls which, even if implemented poorly most of the time, felt more fresh). It's marketing treated it as if it were an add-on instead of a full blown new console, leading Nintendo to have to send out letters to Wii owners to assure them it's a new console. The launch titles are Wii rehashes repackaged (which is the biggest disappointment for me, Wii severely lacked quality AAA titles, IMO), with a few 3rd party leftovers tossed in.

I think the WiiU can recover, and Nintendo will no doubt still profit, but Nintendo botched it from top to bottom this time around. I just don't see them having Wii success this time, which opens the doors for Sony, Microsoft, and other new contenders .

First off, the Wii U is absolutely a next gen console. Console generations aren't determined by the strength of the hardware, but by successive hardware releases.

Last generation: Game Boy Advance, Dreamcast, Playstation 2, Xbox, GameCube.

Current generation: DS, PSP, Xbox 360, Playstation 3, Wii.

Next generation: 3DS, Vita, Wii U, Durango, Playstation 4.

It has to do with the Wii U because publishers have chosen to outright ignore the Wii U in favor of betting it all on PS4 and Durango. If those two consoles fail to catch on like the Wii U, the publishers will look like complete fools and be in a real bad way by having pigeonholed themselves into developing super expensive games for consoles that theoretically might not have an install base much larger than the Wii U's.

Even if all the publishers ever ended up doing with it was release crap shovelware for it like they did for the original Wii, by not supporting the Wii U in the present and helping to grow its install base, they've damaged not only Nintendo's, but their own future prospects as well.

And there's no way they would abandon an entire generation of hardware and go back to PS3 and 360. That's unprecedented and would cause some serious ****ing market confusion.

If Nintendo wants to get out of it's funk, it has to open up it's checkbook and play hardball with these developers. They have to do something to entice more 3rd party developers. Sony got it right by bringing in developers and talking to them.

Honestly, I think Nintendo's biggest screwup with the console is the name.

 

[Fading]

I think a lot of these publishers and developers are going to regret slagging the Wii U so badly if they start hemorrhaging money because their ultra-expensive AAAA games aren't selling what they need to because the PS4 and Durango didn't take off like they thought they would.

Which in my opinion is a very real possibility.

While I get your point, that if PS4/Xbox 8 don't take off, developers are going to be hurting from all of the money spent on developing games for them with no fallback. You also have to take into account that simply porting existing games to the WiiU isn't necessarily profitable either. 3rd party games didn't do so well on the Wii, and the WiiU offers no more promise, and has a much smaller (at this point) base. In order to bring games over to the WiiU, they have to dedicated man power to the ports, and spend time and money on it as well. They may simply be looking at the bottom line, while thinking about how profitable the Wii was/wasn't for them, and deciding it's just not worth it compared to just making something new. Nintendo probably uses their own set up like Sony, unlike something more familiar like Xbox with MS Windows friendly programming. Then you have to take what to do with the touchscreen into account, remove some features, while adding others, ect. Chances are, only the really big AAA's, or more family friendly titles are going to be worth porting.

 

[Benstamania]

All Nintendo has to do is...

1.) Market the WiiU... Seriously...Show some commercials. Show everyone that bought a Wii that it's different.

2.) Announce a 100-150 dollar price drop. People will start to buy them (see the 3DS).

3.) Get some games. Mario, Metroid, Kirby, Donkey Kong, Eternal Darkness sequel, Legend of Zelda... I don't care how cool it is to knock these titles...People freaking BUY them and they will buy a system for them. Push some of them out with new IP's here and there and they'll be golden.

Oh...And let's not forget SSB.

4.) Ignore the PS4/Nextbox... They did this current gen...Do it again.

5.) Get with the online program. Miiverse is pretty sweet...but they need a bit more. I'm not sure how Nintendo is so behind the times here but let me play co-op games with a buddy 30 miles away...and let me do it easily.

The WiiU doesn't "suck." Far from it...It's struggling right now because, for some reason, Nintendo doesn't no how to market worth a damn. The "Wii like to Play" guys need to come back and show this thing off or something.

 

[zenith16]

All Nintendo has to do is...

1.) Market the WiiU... Seriously...Show some commercials. Show everyone that bought a Wii that it's different.

2.) Announce a 100-150 dollar price drop. People will start to buy them (see the 3DS).

3.) Get some games. Mario, Metroid, Kirby, Donkey Kong, Eternal Darkness sequel, Legend of Zelda... I don't care how cool it is to knock these titles...People freaking BUY them and they will buy a system for them. Push some of them out with new IP's here and there and they'll be golden.

Oh...And let's not forget SSB.

4.) Ignore the PS4/Nextbox... They did this current gen...Do it again.

5.) Get with the online program. Miiverse is pretty sweet...but they need a bit more. I'm not sure how Nintendo is so behind the times here but let me play co-op games with a buddy 30 miles away...and let me do it easily.

The WiiU doesn't "suck." Far from it...It's struggling right now because, for some reason, Nintendo doesn't no how to market worth a damn. The "Wii like to Play" guys need to come back and show this thing off or something.

well they started on the right track with their deal with "best buy" with demo's and dates for their upcoming games finally. So if they fallow your plan along with that they will be saved for sure.

 

[Benstamania]

Don't get me wrong...I often look at my WiiU in disgust that I paid 350 dollars for what is now a glorified NES/SNES (once they get the N64 games on the thing..I'll forget about that.. ) but I just remind myself WHY I buy Nintendo stuff.

I buy Nintendo...For Nintendo. I, to this day, believe that they still give us some of the BEST first party titles out there. Is that all they have? Sometimes I could say that yes, that is all they have...But if what you have is the "best" have you really lost anything?

They just GOTTA get the ball rollin'. They will..I fully believe that. People declared the 3DS dead after a few months with absolutely NOTHING on it...Now it's a powerhouse like every Nintendo hand held before it.

Time will tell for Nintendo.

 

[Fading]

Oh, almost forgot. Someone mentioned VG Chartz either here, or in another thread not too long ago. I know, I know, it's an awful site, and I avoid it like the plague. About 2 months back though I visited it from a link to a story, and out of curiosity checked their sales chart. They had the PS3, and 360 difference of over 2 million. When someone on these boards mentioned that site, and seeing the sales talk just now, I was curious what they had the Vita at. Now their PS3 sales are at 77.2 million, and 360 sales are at 77.3 million.

Aside from stories of the PS3 having passed the 360 having already been out months now. They literally just adjusted their numbers by over 2 million. If that doesn't tell you how unreliable their numbers are, I don't know what does. 10k, or even a few 100k is an understandable number to be off by. This isn't even the second time I've heard of them finding out they lowballed PS3 numbers by millions, and having to "slyly" adjust their sales by such a huge number.



Note, I'm not saying this for more console wars junk. Both consoles ended up doing great. It's not like last gen where PS2 did like 120 million, and the Gamecube, and Xbox did under 40 million or so. This is more like me saying VG Chartz continues to be so unreliable it's funny, yet continues to try and act like it's so accurate.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

All Nintendo has to do is...

1.) Market the WiiU... Seriously...Show some commercials. Show everyone that bought a Wii that it's different.

2.) Announce a 100-150 dollar price drop. People will start to buy them (see the 3DS).

3.) Get some games. Mario, Metroid, Kirby, Donkey Kong, Eternal Darkness sequel, Legend of Zelda... I don't care how cool it is to knock these titles...People freaking BUY them and they will buy a system for them. Push some of them out with new IP's here and there and they'll be golden.

Oh...And let's not forget SSB.

4.) Ignore the PS4/Nextbox... They did this current gen...Do it again.

5.) Get with the online program. Miiverse is pretty sweet...but they need a bit more. I'm not sure how Nintendo is so behind the times here but let me play co-op games with a buddy 30 miles away...and let me do it easily.

The WiiU doesn't "suck." Far from it...It's struggling right now because, for some reason, Nintendo doesn't no how to market worth a damn. The "Wii like to Play" guys need to come back and show this thing off or something.

Good suggestions. Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen a Wii U commercial.

 

[Benstamania]

I honestly don't think there has been any...

 

[zenith16]

Don't get me wrong...I often look at my WiiU in disgust that I paid 350 dollars for what is now a glorified NES/SNES (once they get the N64 games on the thing..I'll forget about that.. ) but I just remind myself WHY I buy Nintendo stuff.

I buy Nintendo...For Nintendo. I, to this day, believe that they still give us some of the BEST first party titles out there. Is that all they have? Sometimes I could say that yes, that is all they have...But if what you have is the "best" have you really lost anything?

They just GOTTA get the ball rollin'. They will..I fully believe that. People declared the 3DS dead after a few months with absolutely NOTHING on it...Now it's a powerhouse like every Nintendo hand held before it.

Time will tell for Nintendo.

yeah but there were always three factors, with Nintendo low and affordability prices, (Which I count them both as the same) then it was the casuals, and the games were fun.

Now since the casuaal are fair weather(which they always were) the others are part of what they'll need again and what was said by you up top added with what they just started with the demo's is what will keep them a float. We'll have to see how they do. But the "price's "were a major factor. The last time that was ignored, There was an upset with those saying Nintendo would go down. they didn't see that coming.

 

[Benstamania]

They've GOT to announce a MAJOR price drop. More so if the PS4 ends up only being 400 bones...

They'd be stupid not to...