The Good Citizens of Metropolis: The Casting Thread

[Vaibow]

John David Washington as Clark
Bradley Cooper as Lex Luthor

Gonna second John Hawkes as Jonathan Kent. Absolutely inspired.

He looks like a love child of Sean Penn and the skinny dude from road trip. no thanks.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Very original and only goes further to affirm the racial stereotypes. no thanks.

Let me guess, clark being the misunderstood immigrant that is actually the champion of the people? This just further divides people when they see it play out on the big screen 'rich, white dude, bad... immigrant a hero!'. Can't you see how it's problematic?

I would steer clear away from Lex in the next movie, reboot, retcon or sequel regardless.

I think you need to read some more Superman comics friend.

 

[Vaibow]

I think you need to read some more Superman comics friend.

Why? Your think I don't know the themes over the past 75+ years?

My point, again, is to not push a blatant political agenda down the audiences throats to act as satire of the real world. no thanks. you do that, you get Ruby Rose for a season.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Nobody is asking for an agenda to pushed down anyone's throats. But there are parallels that are around and they feel relevant. But the film should be about superman and hope. Because this world needs a superman right now.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Superman has been a political character since his inception. Siegel and Shuster had him go up against corrupt politicians, greedy bankers and wife beaters more often than aliens or robots. The radio show was one of the most influential pieces of media to turn the tide against the KKK. He's the champion of the oppressed.! The physical marvel who had sworn to devote his existence to helping those in need!

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Superman literally has his origins as a heavily leftist working class hero. Unless he spends the movie smacking around mine bosses and wife beaters it’ll if anything be less political than golden age Supes.

Everything is political. You can’t avoid it. Making things deliberately apolitical is itself an extremely political act. No one is asking for it to be a two hour lecture, but yeah making a relevant, intelligent film that utilizes the inherent subtext of the character is exactly what they should be doing. Dealing with real world themes is just making good art, doesn’t automatically involve shoving them down people’s throats.

I’m sure it would alienate some audience members because the most mild socially conscious subtext sends people into frenzies no matter how subtle you made it but, who cares? Art shouldn’t have to please everybody.

 

[Vaibow]

what is being suggested is too on the nose for me. simple. can agree to disagree.

However, the being said, I do want the plot to be heavily based in realism, int he sense that Clark is the saviour so to speak, not superman. I like an idea where reporter are held hostage and clark is one fo them, they have been snooping around and are about to be disposed of - where quick thinking gets them out and allows for 'superman' to clean up and do his thing. Think back to L&C, it think it was the pilot or second episode where they were held hostage and he gets out in time before the explosion.. I like that angle. however I do want a lot of superman in the first two acts.

 

[Herofan]

Superman has been a political character since his inception. Siegel and Shuster had him go up against corrupt politicians

That can work now, it can also feel pretty cheaply partisan as perceptions of corruption are often so partisan (although some are also unimpressed with them generally) and opposing one set of politicians implicitly glorifies the other as at the least harmless even noble.

Everything is political. You can’t avoid it. Making things deliberately apolitical is itself an extremely political act. No one is asking for it to be a two hour lecture, but yeah making a relevant, intelligent film that utilizes the inherent subtext of the character is exactly what they should be doing. Dealing with real world themes is just making good art, doesn’t automatically involve shoving them down people’s throats.

Hopefully a lot less strident or offputting than Superman deciding that since he cares about the whole world and isn't a part of the U.S. government he needs to renounce his American citizenship, that being American is at odds with being of and for the whole world.

No one is saying lex needs to be changed to fit the analogue of what he could represent because the basis of or that he is defined by it. But the parallels have been written into the character for decades. And i doubt a writer today could ignore the striking similarities.

If the idea or implication is that the rich and successful (and vain) are evil and need to be opposed that at best feels pretty cheap and clunky.

 

[BobJM]

I think there's great narrative potential in casting Luthor as a rich white man as @Eddie Dean suggested, but I don't think it needs to be limited to that.

Nor would I be so on the nose to model after him after Tr*mp. I know there's already been comic book comparisons with Art of the Deal, but I don't want my Luthor do be perceived by half of the public as a buffoon. If we're taking real-life cues, I'd say Bezos or Elon Musk (preferably a nice mix of the two) for my Luthor.

I think the 'politics' of the character should inherently shine through in the story, it shouldn't need to be shoe-horned in or heavy-handed. It's all right there, dress it up however you want: Jor-El and Lara sent their son away to seek a better life & a new home on Earth in the form of the good 'ol US of A--a farm, no less! Luthor, black or white or any race/ethnicity in between, resents the power that Superman possesses and immediately will view him as a threat to his own livelihood. His own rat race for power buried in corruption and capitalistic greed. If people/audiences want to find current comparisons to real-life geo-political landscapes, they won't need to look hard.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

If the idea or implication is that the rich and successful (and vain) are evil and need to be opposed that at best feels pretty cheap and clunky.

A) no one made that implication.

B) He's a comic character who is basically tied intrinsically to those characteristics. Again nobody is stating anything new. If its clunky its not our fault for for connecting the dots.

 

[Eddie Dean]

I do not think a villainous black man being envious of a white man and doing everything he can to bring him down would be very good optics for a Superman film or even make that much sense.

 

[fan4stic]

Superman has been a political character since his inception. Siegel and Shuster had him go up against corrupt politicians, greedy bankers and wife beaters more often than aliens or robots. The radio show was one of the most influential pieces of media to turn the tide against the KKK. He's the champion of the oppressed.! The physical marvel who had sworn to devote his existence to helping those in need!

Fighting against nazis isn't political. I think, to me, that's like saying Batman being against murder is political. I think, to me, it's more a case of superheroes fighting crime. These are moral things, not political ones. Superman being against a cop who beats a black man to death who didn't commit a crime isn't political, all by itself. It's him being against someone who killed someone. Against a man beating his wife, against a greedy banker, against corrupt politicians even, aren't political all by themselves.

Painting an evil businessman type of villain, isn't political, all by itself.

 

[Eddie Dean]

I think you need to look up the definition of political.

 

[BobJM]

I do not think a villainous black man being envious of a white man and doing everything he can to bring him down would be very good optics for a Superman film or even make that much sense.

Well hopefully Luthor would be given more characterization than “villainous black man.” Or whatever ethnicity/race the actor is who will be portraying him.

To pull on your thread of creating a racial divide between Luthor and Superman, the latter could be representative of yet another obstacle that jeopardizes Luthor’s rise in Metropolis. Luthor is a self-made man, and used his superior intellect and his amassed wealth to combat systemic racism & oust the old wealth of Metropolis. All his life he’s had to fight for what he’s earned, going back to his clashes with his abusive father. In the 11th hour of the city’s love affair with Lex Luthor, the Superman arrives and throws Luthor’s power balance off-kilter— an alien being whose skin color gives the people more comfort than the African-American Luthor, who sees himself as giving his all back to the city that made him.

Luthor could be portrayed in a similar light to Killmonger—very clearly the villain of the piece, but one stirred by the social circumstances around him.

Not something I’d actively push for on screen, but just a thought I had in response to the discussions.

 

[fan4stic]

I think you need to look up the definition of political.

I'll re-contextualize my statement, not political in the sense that I see it as being used in a particularly political way to try and say something political.

For instance, I think The Dark Knight has an arguably political issue, in regards to the whole thing of it having the public privacy issue or whatever. I think something similar with The Winter Soldier, though I think that's more directly tied to the plot. But I think they don't make it a thing.

To me, there's a difference between fighting nazis, being against wife beating, against a cop beating a black man to death, against a greedy businessman, against a corrupt politician and that episode of Supergirl where the head of the DEO, a government agency tells the agents that he's banning the use of firearms.

 

[Herofan]

Fighting against nazis isn't political. I think, to me, that's like saying Batman being against murder is political.

Especially given that when Stalin was working with Hitler Superman was against Stalin too ...

I think you need to look up the definition of political.

It is political in the sense of relating to governments (by which most stories about war would be as well), it is not political in the sense of being about ideological conflict, at least not left-right ideological conflict.

 

[Eddie Dean]

The Nazis where literally a political party.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Somehow war is not a political act or ideological conflict?

 

[fan4stic]

The Nazis where literally a political party.

I don't think of fighting them a particularly political statement, to me.

Somehow war is not a political act or ideological conflict?

To me, dealing with political concepts doesn't mean something itself has to be political. Like TDK and TWS, to me.

 

[Fincher]

For me, there's dealing with the political in a broad sense, and then there's alienating a large portion of your audience, or focusing in on a political belief, or bringing up something that's currently in the news that might engender strong feelings or people might just be tired of hearing about. I don't necessarily need any of the latter in a Superman movie. Now would making Lex Luthor white by itself do any of that? Only possibly for those who are primed to see politics or "agendas" in everything, and no matter what you do someone like that is bound to take issue with it.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

If we got a superman movie with lex as president I cant imagine it "alienating" part of the audience.

 

[Boom]

If we got a superman movie with lex as president I cant imagine it "alienating" part of the audience.

But see that can very quickly be perceived as "Democrat (Superman) vs Republican (Luthor)," with the former being "good" and the latter being "bad." Seems silly, but people do think along those lines.

Don't get me wrong, though. President Luthor would be extremely topical in this day and age, considering the guy we currently have in Office.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

But see that can very quickly be perceived as "Democrat (Superman) vs Republican (Luthor)."

Oh i fully understand that. But again I'm not championing for anything that isn't already a factor from the comics.

From my perspective its about the contrast of the men. Because for all of the money, and power, and genius lex has it he cant get over his hate for superman. Where from Superman's perspective Lex could have been the world's greatest superman, because for all his super powers there there is so much more lex could do. President or not.

I dont believe anyone wants such blatant in your face political subtext. But you can't ignore the foundation thats already been laid for the better part of the last century concerning this character.

 

[BobJM]

Assuming he'll no longer be attached as Barry Allen's father, Billy Crudup is my current pick for Brainiac.

As excited as I'd be to finally see Brainiac, I don't think the next Superman film should go anywhere close to an invasion-level threat that Brainiac comes with--so I'd save him for a sequel that also introduces Supergirl.

 

[Eddie Dean]

He'd be a good Lex too.