The Flash The Iris West/Candice Patton Thread

[Eni]

She looks good either way.

 

[Wildcard]

That's kind of our point. She's tremendously beautiful and she doesn't need all of it.

 

[Eni]

Sure, but that is a trend no women and hardly any men are able to escape. Don't get me wrong, photshoping people is a trend that is annoying at best and downright insulting at worst, but holding it against an actor or the guys who take the photos and publish them is a waste of time. In that industry they are expected to do so, it influences sales, and, unfortunately, there are enough idiots who would go after her for the slightest imperfections, like her looking tired, having pimples, or nonsense like that. In that regard, she can really not please anybody, people will complain about her natural looks just as much about her photoshoped ones. I do get what you mean, though, it is utterly unnecessary, and I agree.

 

[Wildcard]

I'm not holding it against Candice because I know chances are it wasn't her decision to airbrush and photoshop the picture as much as they did. Not to get too off-topic, but seeing what Candice and other women actually look like in the flesh, I just wish they'd stop with all of the excess editing when they do photoshoots, because it tends to detract from how stunning they really are rather than accentuate their beauty.

 

[Eni]

Yeah, I agree with you there, though I generally aren't a fan of using photoshop to 'enhance' once beauty, since it's only a fake image that is created that way. Someone like Candice doesn't need to worry about needing a lot of enhancement, she certainly is a natural beauty.

 

[Sevket]

Yeah, I agree with you there, though I generally aren't a fan of using photoshop to 'enhance' once beauty, since it's only a fake image that is created that way. Someone like Candice doesn't need to worry about needing a lot of enhancement, she certainly is a natural beauty.

She's super pretty that's for sure. I just hope that she lives on in Flash

 

[Wildcard]

Highly doubt they'll actually kill her off for good.

 

[metaphysician]

Sadly yes, but a fan can hope. Its not like the show hasn't been willing to kill off major characters before ( and then have the actor return because alternate earths and time travel are both awesome ).

 

[Avenging Angel]

Not a fan of all the airbrushing or the 50 shades of grey theme.

 

[mqg96]

I'm going to have an unpopular opinion here so get ready. I can't stand it when people say they want Iris to die or they feel like she shouldn't be Barry's love interest. Half of the people only say this because they either want Patty Spivot to come back or they want Caitlin Snow (your golden girl) to be Barry's main interest when that will never happen. That would be a disaster like Olicity, forcing a ship that doesn't exist in the comics. Iris West is supposed to be the MAIN female lead of the Flash. The writers realize this, but the problem is that the writers are wasting her potential. What happened to her journalism background we saw throughout seasons 1 & 2? I guess it's because the plot has been so focused on trying to save Iris from Savitar's wrath that she's been treated like a plot device lately.

Iris West has been useful on team Flash in many ways. On the Paradox episode when Wally and Cisco were upset at Barry for changing their lives through Flashpoint, Iris was the one who put some hope on the team letting them know that people make mistakes by the choices they make, and they had to forgive each other. On the Killer Frost episode when Barry's friends were mad at him, Iris West was the one who told Barry that he wouldn't have known if the future events in the previous timeline would have turned out the same way. That's why Barry told Iris "I knew I couldn't do any of this hero stuff without you." Throughout the 2nd half of this current season Iris has been giving Barry a lot of good pep talks every time he gets over his head all the time. Iris is Barry's lightning rod, that's why Savitar wants to take Iris away from Barry because he knows it would totally break him. Go back to "The Once and Future Flash" episode. Look what would happen to the team and especially Barry if Iris wasn't there to put hope and faith in them. Iris dying would be a plague/disease for the ENTIRE team.

Like I said the writers need to do something better with Iris' character and go back to her journalism story. Add some guest stars or side characters with Iris' job again. God forbid but if Joe West is the replacement for Iris' death, then I would love Iris West to become like her Earth 2 doppelganger and be a COP, she'd be a lot more badass. I blame the writers for treating Iris like a plot device lately instead of developing her character like the first 2 seasons.

 

[Eni]

I don't agree that Iris has been very essential to the plot so far. Her giving prep-talks to Barry in a couple of episodes is good and fine, but that is really all she is doing, and even then it was always all about the drama. Emotional support is important, but she is a crutch to Barry he really needs to get rid of - he can't be the Flash without her? Right, you know, the sad thing is, with TV Barry I actually believe that seeing how dependent he is on other people.

Iris needs to do more than be emotional support, though, her character so far has been mostly boring and repetitive, and she is always the damsel in distress (even if she punches someone at times). Sure, it is the writers fault, but if the writer are unable to do something with her, then either get rid of the writer or the character.

I'm not shipping Barry with anybody on the show, I would love for that stupid romance drama to take a break for a season or two and him finally concentrating on becoming the Flash, Iris is really just a hindrance to it, even though she should be the exact opposite. It's not that he doesn't try to be better because of her, he clearly does, but he needs to learn to be a hero in the first place, and so far his journey there has been really lackluster, and a great deal is because of the Wests and the other supportive cast.

The funny thing is, the writers and fans of Iris' character say that she can be the reason to cause the entire team to give up hope, which is such nonsense, not because she potentially couldn't, but because they haven't us shown that at all. They few scenes we get with Iris are mostly about her relationship drama with Barry, and that is it. The Once and Future Flash episode was good, I enjoyed it surprisingly much, but I can't buy that the whole team falls apart because of Iris' death, that is just a pill too big to swallow. And what does that say about Barry again? Seriously, the writers are so inept that instead of using Iris to strengthen Barry's character and show us how he becomes a even better hero because of her, they do the exact opposite.

I don't have a problem with Iris on the show because of who she is even if she is rather bland, but because of the relationship she has with Barry and how she influences him. It is just wrong how the writers try to portray them together, instead of having a fun, loving relationship like in the comics (pre New52), there is only drama and tears, and bla bla bla.

 

[Avenging Angel]

I am not a fan of how the character has been written. A lot of people stem it to when she became Barry's girlfriend and only added drama, that's a big part of it. Gradually the character has been written as a nuisance. The other part is direction and being heavily miscast. When she uttered the words "I'm going to be more muffin top than woman" I knew from then on I was going to be annoyed with this character, I never thought more than I was with Lana Lang, which is who they've built Iris to be.

If they wanted her to be like Lois Lane, they should have introduced her later and with formidable plan, ideals, goals, with better performances and actual likability. We're not supposed to be wanting the love interest to die this early.

Many people still want Patty, Linda and Eddie to come back, not because they were love interests, but because they brought something to the narrative besides added drama. Especially Linda, she was so much fun. I liked her with Barry, Patty as well, she brought the excitement, had chemistry with Barry and actually wanted to be with him because she liked him. Linda and Patty both got enormous amount hate from the social media crazy shippers for no reason. Yet they can't give one me good reason why Iris deserves to stay alive on the show. Being an emotional support is irrelevant. He already has this with Joe, Cisco, HR and Julian. Love interests can always be replaced, the shippers need to get it through their heads that for 3 more seasons, Barry could and very well have more women in his life besides a selfish character like Iris, and gain more emotional support as well.

I have no idea why this Iris is still on the show. The writers need to figure what they're doing with the character or get rid of her. Nobody will really miss her, no one has asked why she was barely in 3x19. A very important episode that helped bring back the show to its original likability. Her short amount of screen time only helped progress the main story. It shows firsthand they don't need her for the main plots.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I do agree that these shows bring in their End Game way to soon. Iris/Laurel could've been introduced later on in the series but I still think Iris is great even if they treat her like crap. Give her a proper a storyline and she could still be like Lois Lane. They just don't have as much interest in their female characters as they do with their males. They brought Julian in and BAM! he is everywhere doing everything with everyone.

But it's very obvious as to why she wasn't in 3x19....Iris was dead in the future where majority of the episode took place, what were expecting? And Cisco/Julian have better ties to Caitlin then she does.

 

[Avenging Angel]

I'm curious since you are a fan of the character, why have the writers chosen to go with the "let's save Iris" story line instead of the "let's develop Iris"? Doesn't one help the character more than the other? Don't you think that would be more dignified to the show than what they chose?

 

[Primal Slayer]

Simple. They do not know how to write female characters. They are much more interested in the male characters. Caitlins whole storyline is "I freeze=I go bad" instead of using the characters past losses to help push her down that road. HR/Julian, both newbies to Team Flash are given more to do and given more importance.

 

[mqg96]

Simple. They do not know how to write female characters. They are much more interested in the male characters. Caitlins whole storyline is "I freeze=I go bad" instead of using the characters past losses to help push her down that road. HR/Julian, both newbies to Team Flash are given more to do and given more importance.

Hate to get off topic, but you know the definition of super powers or metahumans right? Caitlin has super cold powers, not super speed or vibration powers. Cold powers, which not only makes her body cold physically but it also makes her emotions cold hearted as well. Speedsters can run at extremely high speeds, vibrate through walls, time travel, etc. things that you can think of as a speedster protected by the speed force. Cold powers make you emotionally cold hearted and angry with no feelings for anybody, things that cold powers make you do. Not everybody's super powers are physical, but it can also put them into an emotional state as well. Like Bruce Banner when he can't control his anger in his Incredible Hulk form, or Frankie Kane when she can't control her anger in her Magenta ego. Caitlin's cold powers are linked to all the tragedies throughout her life. Her coldest and negative emotions throughout her life manifest and shuts down all her positive feelings.

 

[zenith16]

Hate to get off topic, but you know the definition of super powers or metahumans right? Caitlin has super cold powers, not super speed or vibration powers. Cold powers, which not only makes her body cold physically but it also makes her emotions cold hearted as well. Speedsters can run at extremely high speeds, vibrate through walls, time travel, etc. things that you can think of as a speedster protected by the speed force. Cold powers make you emotionally cold hearted and angry with no feelings for anybody, things that cold powers make you do. Not everybody's super powers are physical, but it can also put them into an emotional state as well. Like Bruce Banner when he can't control his anger in his Incredible Hulk form, or Frankie Kane when she can't control her anger in her Magenta ego. Caitlin's cold powers are linked to all the tragedies throughout her life. Her coldest and negative emotions throughout her life manifest and shuts down all her positive feelings.

I've said this inthe killed frost thread on why people are buying the split personality epecially come pared to the hulk who has had multiple personality disorder show up in his powers

yeah she moved on too fast still, but that's on the writers. as to the alternate reality thing the problem here is when they had thing with convince cisco he wasn't evil cause he met all the later evil self thing fist and she was one of the people trying to convince him



like any of them have chose there. this still could be weird result of latency like cisco's and Jax 's Jefferson Jackson . barry time traveled even before cisco found he had his vibe powers .

the problem I think is cause they chose to make it that
have split personality and split personality's usually happen when someones early past in child hood mostly or so it's been pushed .

the problem is the writers on the show skipped this part there was a possible good set up where she found from her alternate self of earth 2 that she had an older brother or just brother . and they dropped it cause it's possible in her reality of earth 1 she had a brother on her earth too.

but something happened to him as well and she suppressed it and it would explain why her mom is distant personality, they dropped alot that should/ could have been good set up for split personality .


the reason the hulk had multiple personality disorder in the book's and had change green to other colour's like grey was cause his dad was abusive and his suspected that bruce may have the mutant Gene. apparently the banner are cousins of the Xavier's the writer in marvel don't talk about as much these day but Bruce banner and xavier are related. and that the reason Bruce's dad was an unbearable person and why huld had multiple personality dis order that resulted into his powers as the hulk.


with Cait the reason aren't good enough . and it's too late to implement what i said later .it's all over the place like her explanation on if jay was cured or not in season 2. man that was a mess.

and it's shows now the explanation with why it's happening isn't good . which is why most of the fan base aren't happy and expressing that to them it doesn't make sense.

when people find the story of the hulk in comic it was handled better. ( I'm talking about his other personality, not the rage thast overly push and talked about) Man there are article's written about that one with hulk and multiple personality disorder all prior to this show happening.

it's on the web and not hard to find ether. it's best you don't use that one from now on. some one other then my self that knows the issue well and it's real life connenction thast stated of when the stories were and obver with might say it harsher. where I'm willing listen and show how it's different on why other's aren't buying this with Caitlin .

It's just not written well and we know they are capable of better. but they are rushing over thing's thing that should saved from start they threw out and adding later will reult in eye roll form others that watch the show even out side this forum. which is sad when know what they(the writers) are capable of .

 

[mqg96]

I've said this inthe killed frost thread on why people are buying the split personality epecially come pared to the hulk who has had multiple personality disorder show up in his powers


when people find the story of the hulk in comic it was handled better. Man there are article's written about that one with hulk and multiple personality disorder all prior to this show happening. it's on the web and not hard to find ether.

That's basically what the writers have done with Caitlin too. "Killer Frost" is the manifestation of all the hidden rage, pain, hatred, insecurities, and fears Caitlin has held inside of her. Whether it was losing Ronnie twice tragically, having her career ruined by the accelerator explosion, falling into a twisted relationship with fake Jay/Zoom who was a psychopath, losing her father to illness at a young age, or being raised by a single narcissistic mother. So if anything Caitlin was long overdue for snapping to the dark side once her cold powers started changing her emotions. The writers haven't explained it well, but they've given you enough foreshadowing and clues.

 

[zenith16]

That's basically what the writers have done with Caitlin too. "Killer Frost" is the manifestation of all the hidden rage, pain, hatred, insecurities, and fears Caitlin has held inside of her. Whether it was losing Ronnie twice tragically, having her career ruined by the accelerator explosion, falling into a twisted relationship with fake Jay/Zoom who was a psychopath, losing her father to illness at a young age, or being raised by a single narcissistic mother. So if anything Caitlin was long overdue for snapping to the dark side once her cold powers started changing her emotions. The writers haven't explained it well, but they've given you enough foreshadowing and clues.

as stated she has no reason to rage the first she thought he died he was there was no body and there isn't body this second go around they didn't freaking look or tell the rest of the police or his family. they just assumed .

the thing with zoom was cause writer's make her move on faster then she ever should and it bit her in the butt. and with cisco when it through the same with his double before her and she's making as if it didn't happen, when she was one of the people trying convince him to open the portal which brought zoom back . if she didn't do that cisco would left the portals closed and zoom plan were defeated.

as I said the hulk picked multiple personality disorder besides the rage but they weren't as linked as you think. the grey hulk and his other colour change's and drop and increase' in intellect as the hulk have shown this disorder.




and when he's smart mode or talking like normal person in hulk form he's not raging.
Detail:
http://www.incrediblehulkonline.com/incarnations.html

also there's this
http://www.comic-book-collection-made-easy.com/incredible-hulk-1.html


again there alot articles talking the hulk and MPDMPD(multiple personality disorder

examples through out the web :
https://www.google.ca/search?q=the+hulk+multiple+personality+disorder&rlz=1C1CHBD_enCA741CA741&oq=the+hulk+multiple&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l2.14929j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


her's is different. it's poorly explained too.



also they made it seem that her mother didn't do a much damage to her mentally ether.

but this thread is about Iris . so this is far too off topic/ derailment .

 

[Avenging Angel]

Well I agree with that. I'm pulling for a more definitive explanation as to why Caitlin's powers automatically make her evil. For Cisco's powers, he was only afraid of them, but I think we saw briefly he embraced them and was on the side of good. With certain scenes we were shown Caitlin can control her abilities then all of a sudden the writers have her go full blown Frost only to turn into Killer Frost by the end of it. I personally have no problem with the complexities of that. Whither it's a Hulk personality disorder, I wish they were a tad more clear. What I have a problem with is Iris, she is far down the least developed character on the show. She has nothing grown from the ground up and she found journalism boring at the start, that was her bread and butter.

 

[batdude]

I'm curious since you are a fan of the character, why have the writers chosen to go with the "let's save Iris" story line instead of the "let's develop Iris"? Doesn't one help the character more than the other? Don't you think that would be more dignified to the show than what they chose?

What's really odd is that Some of the writers seem to know this. Kevin Smith was quoted a lot about letting Candice ad lib better lines for example. I really wish they would let her visit the other shows too.

 

[zenith16]

Well I agree with that. I'm pulling for a more definitive explanation as to why Caitlin's powers automatically make her evil. For Cisco's powers, he was only afraid of them, but I think we saw briefly he embraced them and was on the side of good. With certain scenes we were shown Caitlin can control her abilities then all of a sudden the writers have her go full blown Frost only to turn into Killer Frost by the end of it. I personally have no problem with the complexities of that. Whither it's a Hulk personality disorder, I wish they were a tad more clear. What I have a problem with is Iris, she is far down the least developed character on the show. She has nothing grown from the ground up and she found journalism boring at the start, that was her bread and butter.

yeah let keep in mind with the hulk it wasn't his personality disorder effecting his power and they made that clear from jump.

it was from the abuse from his father that he may have been mutant and his father repeating same action's his own dad did to him.

with caitlin they said it's her power after meeting her alternate self. bruce's is from abuse and the side effect's come out in his powers next to thee rage.

it's the power effecting Caitlin with in the show that writers keep's pushing which is the other way around and it failing cause we've seen that's so mostly cause of her perception and an inaccurate one. But writer keep going there even when barry showed her otherwise . which is why so many have this issue including both you and I.

I was giving the writers the chance to have said it was due to family trama like she may had brother as well on earth one and she was suppressing terrable event cause they did overly pushed that brother bit in season 2 and over pushed how cold mother was and they kept pushing it that way . but instead they made that event though her mother wasn't open enough with her own feeling's, she didn't do anything overly abusive to send Caitlin into this state and her dad being out of the picture wasn't enough ether.


so they sadly dropped the ball with alot and it's too late use the brother angle or the details about her dad that should have been told by now cause they didn't care about it.


this why I said with the hulk it was written better the power weren't problem. they were side effects by his mental problems . with her they keep saying they are the problem and they can't use the smart way that's done by other writers now..



other's need to under stand though I said enough time's I'm not dissing them (the writer) when I say we know they capable better.

I mean it. we've seen them write a great season in season 1. but since then it's like they ether got lazy or they noticed alot of the fan base dropped arrow and they're "oh we better show we're like the writing team on arrow, we over did it with our talent" "and that's not good for our buddys on the other show." which would be ridiculous if the latter part is true.

So it's likely they being lazy . Cause it better not be that .

The point is I know this writing team on flash can do better then this with both Caitlin and Iris . I'm not insulting them . I just know they are capable of better. so I hope no one is mistaking what I'm saying. the thing with hulk is different cause it took what was done with MPD worked it to with other interpretation's of MDP other mediums made it clear his powers which weren't the cause.

with this it's the other way and alot didn't make sense where the hulk own was trying make it clear it was due his problem growing up and from abuse. sadly the writer's are saying opposite with Caitlin . the actress is do awesome. The writer when I or others say you can do better it mean's I'm still rooting for you. but seriously you should 've done certain thing's earlier instead of half way and not caring any more.

when they do that it doesn't help what they're doing and adding it in later when you realize it . it will be too late for the most of audience . And it hard to root for them then. and they are creative smart people, I know their capable of do what your capable from the jump and those other's on arrow should be upping their game to match you .

this is what it should be for thr flash writers. this is why I'm watch these smart shows . I sometimes feel I'm getting more out of the black list with David spader then this show when they both deal with sci -fi element or when adding in things/serous issues like split personalty's yet have something thing extra added to it.


Is it a weird comparison? to some degree yes. but that show has gone to level in sci fi that even the comic explore and area's of the same genre. so at time 's it's not weird. they both have their own identity I know . I'm just saying we've seen them do better on flash .

this isn't the most horrible I've seen tv wise . I'd take flash over arrow a million time over . and I'm not on the verge of dropping the show like I did arrow or where I'm dancing on dropping Legends . I just know they are capable of better. if the hulk comic writer's wrote something that people literally made articles that psychologist would look over with comic book 's . this show capable of this too. I know this might going over some people heads.

and there's so much they can do for Iris . so much it's not hard to brain storm some idea at the meeting table for her.

 

[Dannie99]

She is my favorite character.

 

[Avenging Angel]

I don't think this Iris stands a chance. E2 was hardy an improvement. With Caitlin there might be. I would prefer her not being given love interests and keep on doing what she's doing. They ought to get Iris off this show because her presence is not selling in the ratings like Killer Frost is.

 

[mqg96]

Wow whoever this comic book character is that's who she reminds me of in these photos lol!