Iron Man 3 The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - - Part 14

[Sharkboy]

seriously, how many knew the twist before going in? Is it really that fun to spoil the movie to yourself before going?

Knew about the twist, but really wasn't expecting how humourous it would be.

 

[antonydavanzo]

[BLACKOUT]Saw this film again last night and the "twist" got such a laugh from the audience. Im glad to say but the general audience seemed to love the Mandarin twist which is a good thing IMO. Should we not all be glad that we got yet another great comic book film and that this will further more films in the future? I know that I cannot account for personal preference BUT please please, for those who have not seen the film then please keep an open mind and you will love this movie. I believe that they did the Mandarin justice. They gave you a Mandarin that looked very similar to the comics in Kingsley and then they gave you a mandarin that was very similar to the character in Pearce. Its just been presented a little differently.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[TheWallCrawler]

That's because the Iron Man comic book series has *always* lacked a really good villain. Ever.

People who try to define comic-book Mandarin as "a really good villain" are delusional and in need of self-medication.

Well the Green Goblin, the debatable arch-nemesis of Spider-Man, is a pretty weak villain in comics imo but that doesn't mean that they can just goof him up. Also, I think that Mandarin is a lot better than some give him credit for and the villain deserved better. Things were going so great with this incarnation until the twist

 

[jmc]

The issues with villains being great or not comes down squarely to how you use them. This notion that because character-x doesn't have a great villain in his gallery means you should worry about trying to make a great villain is kinda dumb. Every 'great' villain had to come from somewhere. Someone takes a shot at something different and for one reason or another it sticks in peoples minds. Freddy Kruger, Darth Vader, Hannibal Lector, The Terminator, the list goes on, these are all characters that never had 40-50 years of history behind them.

 

[terry78]

I assume that whole twist is kind of a meta wink-wink thing to the fanboys that *****ed about the concept before the movie even started filming.

 

[cherokeesam]

Well the Green Goblin, the debatable arch-nemesis of Spider-Man, is a pretty weak villain in comics imo but that doesn't mean that they can just goof him up. Also, I think that Mandarin is a lot better than some give him credit for and the villain deserved better. Things were going so great with this incarnation until the twist

That's just it, though --- a lot of people *want* to compare Mandarin to infamous archenemies like Goblin and Joker and Luthor and Magneto, but Mandy fails on so many levels to compare to that. A great nemesis is inside the hero's head; inside the hero's life. They give the hero reason to hate them, usually involving the murder(s) of someone the hero loves. They often spawn henchmen and associates who become popular villains in their own right. Their villainy often extends deep into the rest of the comic book universe, so that the Avengers/JLA or whoever know full well the evils that he or she is capable of.

Mandarin is not like that at all. He's just the most common of Iron Man villains --- re-imagined almost every time you see him, because Bullpen writers have never been able to figure out a decent way to define him --- who just goes in and gets his ass kicked by Iron Man and then disappears for another decade or so before later writers try to trot him out again for the same old iron-gloved beatdown.

 

[Sharkboy]

Well Black has been vocal about his distaste for the original Mandarin, so i wouldn't be surprised if the whole twist was his way of telling the fans how much he hates him.

Makes me wonder what would it be like if Raimi had that idea, and made Thomas Haden Church, Eddie Brock instead and gave everyone the bulked up scary venom only for you to find out it's some bodybuilder in an expensive suit orchestrated by Harry Osborn ("screw everyone who wanted venom in my movie!")

 

[jmc]

Why some fans want to play down the importance of on screen villains is frankly perplexing to me.

 

[Xeno]

 

[DyeLorean]

seriously, how many knew the twist before going in? Is it really that fun to spoil the movie to yourself before going?

I didn't know about the twist. When the big reveal was slowly approaching I was like... wait, what? I was thinking it was either the best twist ever, or the worst possible one.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

Well Black has been vocal about his distaste for the original Mandarin, so i wouldn't be surprised if the whole twist was his way of telling the fans how much he hates him.

Makes me wonder what would it be like if Raimi had that idea, and made Thomas Haden Church, Eddie Brock instead and gave everyone the bulked up scary venom only for you to find out it's some bodybuilder in an expensive suit orchestrated by Harry Osborn ("screw everyone who wanted venom in my movie!")

I don't think it's OK for a director to helm a movie and half-ass a character because he personally hates him. Does that sound professional to you ? Raimi did it and now this guy.

I keep referring back to Nolan, but If you watch the TDKR extras it is said that Nolan hated or at least disliked the idea Bane for the end of the trilogy (It was Goyers idea). Now imagine if to spite us and show his disdain for the character he made Bane an atrocity worse than Batman & Robin Bane. Is this how business is done ? Aren't we all grown ups here ?

I don't understand.

Shoulda just given us Lethal Weapon 9 or whatever and leave Iron Man for someone who wants to treat it with some respect.

 

[Sharkboy]

Why some fans want to play down the importance of on screen villains is frankly perplexing to me.

Because when the film is about Tony Stark, primarily to the point where everyone else including the villains are merely devices to emphasize the story they are trying to tell with him. Then it really isn't such a big deal if the villain is on screen chewing the scene, Black's Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and Lethal Weapon were exactly the same. No one cares about Harlan Dexter or Mr Joshua...they only care about the protagonists and the story being told about them.

 

[Tony Stark]

For the love of freaking pete use the freaking spoiler tags! You guys aren't even being coy about this anymore, and the film hasn't even been released in America yet.

 

[Figs]

Exactly. I never complained about the 1st movie moving to the middle east instead of china. I thought that was a nice update. I will not accept blatant disrespect of a character regardless of whether he is popular or not. Everyone keeps talking about how lame IM's rogues are. So why do you care if anybody defends them? Move on oh enlightened ones and leave us to our own opinions.

By the sound of it, Most of the people ragging on the few of us that don't like what they did to the character got into Iron Man from the movies. Some of us actually have been fans of the IM comics for quite a few years. I guarantee if they pulled this with a villain from one of their favorite comics they would also be up in arms.

 

[Sharkboy]

I don't think it's OK for a director to helm a movie and half-ass a character because he personally hates him. Does that sound professional to you ? Raimi did it and now this guy.

I keep referring back to Nolan, but If you watch the TDKR extras it is said that Nolan hated or at least disliked the idea Bane for the end of the trilogy (It was Goyers idea). Now imagine if to spite us and show his disdain for the character he made Bane an atrocity worse dan Batman & Robin Bane. Is this how business is done ? Aren't we all grown ups here ?

I don't understand.

Shoulda just given us Lethal Weapon 9 or whatever and leave Iron Man for someone who wants to treat it with some respect.

Ok before i get into this; your sig made me LOL really hard.

Anyway, I don't think he half assed anything. To say that he half assed it would imply that he at least attempted to make the mandarin and just failed at making him compelling, that's not it at all.

Spoiler

Aldrich Killian is a great villain, but he's just that, a villain! a secondary character...not the whirlwind of a character that people expected, not the Marvel version of Heath's Joker fans have been clamouring for, and that's fine because it was never meant to be like that. I find it funny that a lot of people seem to really be missing how much of a Tony centric film this is, everything from the fights to the quips to the secondary characters all tells a story about who Tony stark was and is. Killian being the mandarin only serves to provide people with a more practical and naturalistic version of the character and someone who's arc in the film tells us a lot about Tony and his past mistakes coming back to haunt him.

The Ben Kingsley stuff is just a statement from Killian (and Black) at how people find it easy to villify someone that looks and acts like that. Which could be seen as a statement on the mandarin himself. Either way it creates a pretty compelling story all over, rather than the same predictable stuff.

How is that half assing it in anyway, the only thing Black is guilty of is misdirecting people, not dropping the ball

 

[Sharkboy]

By the sound of it, Most of the people ragging on the few of us that don't like what they did to the character got into Iron Man from the movies. Some of us actually have been fans of the IM comics for quite a few years. I guarantee if they pulled this with a villain from one of their favorite comics they would also be up in arms.

You are probably right, but I'm a hardcore Batman fan and I loved the statement Nolan made with TDKR, some people just don't care about comic continuity when it comes to film. I know I certainly don't...the idea of comic continuity is stupid anyway considering that's always changing. It just feels like people don't like to be challenged anymore when watching films, they'd rather have things be exactly how they want it and damn anyone that tells them differently.

 

[terry78]

For the love of freaking pete use the freaking spoiler tags! You guys aren't even being coy about this anymore, and the film hasn't even been released in America yet.

If you're not first, you're last.

 

[spider-neil]

Couldn't care less about the comic book Mandarin all I care about is what is presented to me in the movie, and they build up the Mandarin to be one thing and deliver something completely different. I haven't enjoyed the 3rd act of any of the Iron Man movies (including IM1) but the 3rd act of IM3 is bar far the worst of the trilogy and that is almost entirely because of the debacle that is Manadarin. Wasted opportunity.

 

[RetroNaz]

I've just come back from my third viewing.
It's more than fair for me to say that the twist is a complete hit with the GA.

And to be honest, I'm loving it now too. The "sting" from probably being a little mislead has now gone and I simply enjoy the movie which really is completely about Tony and at the crux, Iron Man.

 

[C. Lee]

I'll be back to look through these threads better later....but for now a reminded....

THE MOVIE HASN'T OPENED EVERYWHERE YET.....PUT SPOILERS IN SPOILER TAGS

 

[kaijunexus]

So who picked out [BLACKOUT]the Mandarin's robes? His rings? His words? His surgically-altered face?[/BLACKOUT]

Killian. It was all Aldrich Killian.

He invented [BLACKOUT]the persona of the Mandarin. In many ways, Kingsley's Mandarin is still very much Killian. He's Killian's puppet. A dark reflection he's created of himself.[/BLACKOUT]

[BLACKOUT]Trevor, the actor, is really just a blank slate that Aldrich could use to paint his vision onto. The fact that he's chosen such a gifted actor to portray this piece of his personality is a further testament to Killian's genius...as is the fact that he's chosen a person who is essentially absent of his own thoughts and cares only for luxury and basic pleasures. Again, intellectually, a blank slate that Killian can paint.[/BLACKOUT]

So, in this context...[BLACKOUT]the Mandarin played by Trevor Slattery is actually being "played" by Aldrich Killian in all aspects except for the physical body that is under those robes and wearing those rings. The character that Trevor plays is not "fake"...The Mandarin we see in those terrorist videos is very much an aspect of Aldrich Killian, and therefore very real.[/BLACKOUT]

Don't judge the bearded, ring-wearing Mandarin on [BLACKOUT]the puppet under the robes that's used to portray him...judge him on the man pulling the marionette strings.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Tony Stark]

I'll be back to look through these threads better later....but for now a reminded....

THE MOVIE HASN'T OPENED EVERYWHERE YET.....PUT SPOILERS IN SPOILER TAGS

Thanks Lee! you da' man.

 

[RetroNaz]

Took me a second viewing to realise that

Spoiler

Pepper had been cured by Tony of Extremis.

Thank goodness, really.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Some of us actually have been fans of the IM comics for quite a few years.

Ah, the old "I'm a better fan than all of you" strategy. Classic!

 

[Tony Stark]

I think you can be a fan of the comics and realize that things can be reinterpreted. The film has to work for the medium, it can't be a literal translation. I'm not going to comment on this film, because I haven't seen it yet.

I will only say that no one was upset that Jarvis was an AI in these movies and not a person. To me that was an improvement on the comics. In the early days Jarvis was more tied to Avengers, than he was the Iron Man books which were more about Happy and Pepper. I think Favreau and the writers took a smart decision on something that could have been seen as a rip off of Alfred and made it something totally original, and also added to a comic standard in recent years that Stark had an A.I. to assist him with his armor.

Also I'm amazed that people think that Black is not a fan. Shane has publically stated that he was a huge fan of the books as a kid, and it was Shane who really recommended Robert to Favreau when he knew of the project, and was an unpaid consultant on the first two movies.