The Dark Knight The James Gordon / Gary Oldman Thread

[kenellard]

just give him more screen time, he was a total non-entity in BB, a pure waste of Oldman's talent

 

[KingOfDreams]

Oldman is a fantastic actor and I think he deserves some more screen time.

 

[Jackasscoley15]

Definately. I'm a huge Oldman fan, and to see him underused is an unspeakable crime against nature.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

It's a difficult situation, really. Gordon is a great character and Oldman is sheer perfection, but how much can he really do in a two hour Batman movie?

The problem Nolan faces is that he's gotten together this brilliant cast and they all need time to shine. But Batman movies are not essentially ensemble pieces. It's not X-Men. At it's core, it should be about Batman.

It's a hard balance to strike. Many believe Burton flunked out by not featuring his Batman enough, while giving all the screen time to the villains. Now some people think Nolan didn't give the supporting cast enough, characters like Crane and Gordon.

I think the amount of Gordon in Begins was plenty, personally. It wasn't Year One, the story wasn't being told from his perspective. Essentially, he did as much in the movie as he does in any of the comics or the animated series. He served his primary function necessary for a 2-hour Batman movie; he was Batman's partner.

 

[kenellard]

unfortunately he was his partner in the buddy-cop movie sort of way, which was a cheap dilution of their relationship

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

unfortunately he was his partner in the buddy-cop movie sort of way, which was a cheap dilution of their relationship

I'm curious, what would you have him do?

 

[Joker]

I still want to see this exchange...

Gordon beats the s**t out of the Joker, and then gets on top of him to punch him in the face. He turns to Baman.

Gordon: Dumb mother f**ker most of thought it was white boy day. It ain't white boy day is it?

Gordon looks to Batman, who is standing, watchin.

Batman: Nah man, it ain't white boy day.

Gordon: Yeah, didn't think so.

 

[Tojo]

I hope he actually get's something to do/say this time. And i don't mean that awful driving the Tumbler idea. I want his relationship with Batman to blossom and work as a team, and also with Dent, to a degree.

I also want to see him be abit tougher. He was kindof a geek in BB, i couldn't picture him in a heroic light. And heroic is totally what Gordon is.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

I hope he actually get's something to say this time.

What more do you want him to say, really? Give speeches about justice? These movies have enough of that as it is.

He had a touching scene with young Bruce (not in the comics, I know, but I thought it was a welcome change..and proof Nolan is interested in this relationship).

A perfect meeting scene with pre-Batman Bruce ("Now we're two..", just classic, and indicative of Gordon's heroic nature, chasing who he thought to be an armed maniac up to the rooftop).

Great scenes with Flass in the car and Loeb in the police station illustrating his disillusion with corruption and interest in Batman's methods/desire to "work outside the box."

All of the scenes of him on his own, however brief - interrogating Crane, finding Falcone, learning about the water contamination.

The scene behind his house; "I think you're trying to help..."

The fact that he essentially brought down Ra's (whether or not you agree with his driving the Batmobile, the important of those actions are undeniable in the context of the movie).

And of course, the final scene, which is just about as iconic and cool as you can get in a Batman movie. Something people had been dying for yet are still now unsatisfied.

Their relationship was more than developed for an origin movie that had to fit in a half dozen other plot elements at the same time.

After the almost non-existent relationship in the Burton/Schumacher movies (Before anybody asks, Bats & Gordon directly interacted/spoke roughly less than 10 times during the course of all 4 movies - and that included such memorable moments as "Bats giving Gordon the thumbs up from the Batwing", "Gordon giving Bats the lowdown about Freeze on his Batmobile mini-computer", and "Gordon walking in on Bats' and Chase's rooftop lovefest."), I was tickled pink to get the relationship we got in Begins. Nothing is fleshed-out enough for fans; we always want more. Because we're spoiled on ongoing comics and cartoons that allow for dozens and dozens of moments for every character to shine. Movies don't have that luxury, all we can hope is that the sequel delivers more of what we want.

 

[kenellard]

I'm curious, what would you have him do?

I would have him be seen bending the rules to help bats, "misplacing" certain files that could be useful to a certain masked vigilante, stuff like that, not driving the tumbler and throwing out lame one-liners

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

I would have him be seen bending the rules to help bats, "misplacing" certain files that could be useful to a certain masked vigilante, stuff like that, not driving the tumbler and throwing out lame one-liners

He is bending the rules to help Bats. Helping him at all is, by definition, bending the rules. You can guarantee Loeb is not happy about Gordon's little Bat signal. Gordon showed his tendency to accept vigilante help when necessary in the police station scene, and was shot down immediately by Loeb. Yet he still worked with him.

And it was one lame one-liner. One. And to be fair, everyone's entitled to one! Batman and Scarecrow got theirs. t:

 

[Mac_Hine]

I agree! More screen time for Oldman. I would love a meeting between Bats and Gordon in his office and then Batman jumping out the window when Gordon's not looking.

 

[metkalfe]

I dont want him or Dent forsaken by the writing.

 

[Cinemaman]

Oldman owns!

 

[Monkey Chops]

I still want to see this exchange...

Gordon beats the s**t out of the Joker, and then gets on top of him to punch him in the face. He turns to Baman.

Gordon: Dumb mother f**ker most of thought it was white boy day. It ain't white boy day is it?

Gordon looks to Batman, who is standing, watchin.

Batman: Nah man, it ain't white boy day.

Gordon: Yeah, didn't think so.

LOL. Nice one.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Longtime lurker, first time poster.

I really want to see Gordon established as a tough person in TDK. I think Oldman can easily convey that, but BB didn't really give him a chance to do so, and that's probably my biggest complaint about the movie.

Year One has two great Gordon scenes that would work to establish this:
1. The hostage crisis where he drops his gun and enters the building.
2. His altercation with Flass.

Something like either of those scenes would be great.

Then again, at the end of BB we already know that Gordon has been promoted, so maybe the time to show his toughness has come and gone.

Hey, welcome to the Hype.

I just want to point out that Gordon did some very gutsy things in BB, which seems to me to demonstrate his badassitude, and in fact all of his most essential Gordon-like traits.

1.) He comforted the freshly orphaned Bruce when nobody else did. So he is compassionate.

2.) As disgusted as he was by Flass's behavior, he also refused to rat on him. Gordon is honorable.

3.) When Proto-Batman visits him in his office, he chases him out onto the roof and tries to get him. Gordon is brave.

4.) Discusses Flass's illegal activities with Batman outside the apartment. Gordon is willing to work with Batman

5.) Goes into Arkham without backup when Flass and the other policemen are afraid to do so. Gordon remains brave.

6.) Helps rescue Rachel. Gordon is heroic, and still willing to work with Batman.

7.) Admires the Tumbler. Gordon is manly.

8.) Shares information with Batman. Gordon still willing to bend rules to work with him.

9.) Jacks toxin-infected Flass in the alley to protect innocent. Gordon is tough, and still heroic.

10.) Blows up monorail to stop Ra's. Gordon saves the day. Heroic, brave, tough.

11.) Bat-signal and rooftop meeting. This cements Gordon's relationship with Batman, as if the Tumbler thing didn't. Gordon has been promoted, he's benefited from Batman's presence, the two of them have risen to official heroic status together. At this point Gordon actually comes to Batman with an open case, looking for some support. This is the classic Batman-Gordon relationship.

For a movie, which has a limited time frame to work in, I thought they did a damned good job. In terms of character, Gary Oldman's Jim Gordon is every bit the modern Gordon, the one we've had since Year One and beyond.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Exactly. And Oldman was just perfect in the role.

 

[Dirt Like Me]

Keyser,

You make some very good points, (I had actually forgotten that Gordon takes Flass down in the Narrows) and I agree with most of what you said. The Jim Gordon who hands Batman the calling card is a great depiction of the comic character, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of him in TDK.

I guess what I would have liked to have seen in BB was something more from Gordon before "proto-Batman" visited him. While I loved the scene where he consoles young Bruce, I don't know that it would have been enough to establish (to an adult Bruce/Batman years later) that Gordon was the type of guy Batman could rely on, especially given the amount corruption in Gotham's justice system.

The last scene was awesome, though. You're right about it showing Gordon's trust in Batman, and I even liked his tone of voice during the "escalation" discussion. He seemed more confident and in control (as compared to the tumbler scene where was literally and figuratively "along for the ride").

And I say all this fully realizing how picky it comes off. (My name is Dirt, and I'm a fanboy). Overall, I think Nolan did a great job doling out screen time to Batman first and the supporting characters second. Other directors haven't done so well in that department.

 

[Arkard]

I don't know that it would have been enough to establish (to an adult Bruce/Batman years later) that Gordon was the type of guy Batman could rely on, especially given the amount corruption in Gotham's justice system.

Right before Bruce noticeses the bat in tha manour you will see him sitting on the floor with various files around him. One can only guess how exactly did he get those files. Could have been detective work, could have been bribes. Among them there is a picture of Gordon, and (as I assume) some info abotu him, maybe even some "street word". So he either a) was trying to found out, through various channels, who is still good, and that led him to Gordon and that he is the last good cop or b) he was looking for the cop with the pretiest eyes cause such cuties cannot be bad
My guess is on a) but I wont judge you if you go with b).

 

[itsthebatman]

7.) Admires the Tumbler. Gordon is manly.

The mark of any good cop,of courset:

 

[Keyser Sushi]

The mark of any good cop,of courset:

LOL, of course!

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Right before Bruce noticeses the bat in tha manour you will see him sitting on the floor with various files around him. One can only guess how exactly did he get those files. Could have been detective work, could have been bribes. Among them there is a picture of Gordon, and (as I assume) some info abotu him, maybe even some "street word". So he either a) was trying to found out, through various channels, who is still good, and that led him to Gordon and that he is the last good cop or b) he was looking for the cop with the pretiest eyes cause such cuties cannot be bad
My guess is on a) but I wont judge you if you go with b).

ROFL!

Nice one.

 

[Dirt Like Me]

So he either a) was trying to found out, through various channels, who is still good, and that led him to Gordon and that he is the last good cop or b) he was looking for the cop with the pretiest eyes cause such cuties cannot be bad
My guess is on a) but I wont judge you if you go with b).

Very, very funny. A good point and an example in tolerance that we can all learn from. That cracked me up.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Here's a little Gordon/Oldman goodness for the masses.

Look at that 'stache. It's made of iron, and braun.

 

[diagonbruce]

I wonder if we see some more background of his family.