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The Joker Thread - Part 1

Films that got called to mind when seeing Keoghan's Joker:

The Phantom of the Opera (1925)
The Man Who Laughs (1928)
Mystery of the Wax Museum (1933)
The Texas Chain Saw Massacre (1974)
The Elephant Man (1980)
 
If you had to rank those Jokers, just in terms of appearance, how would you rank them?

1. Jack Looks the most like classic comic book Joker, so I lean more towards having him at the top. His performance is pretty meh, but the design works

2. Heath's look has become iconic, and yet, as fresh as it felt at the time, it's also fairly comic accurate, just a bit more muted. The makeup made for a scary Joker at the time, and while his look might have inspired numerous, somewhat cringey, Joker looks, I still think this look holds up

3. I actually really love Phoenix's look. Because it reminds me of something you'd see at Coney Island, or some New York parade. The use of blue was inspired, maybe because it feels authentic to the time period. It really looks like the Joker did it himself. I also like how they swerved and gave us a red suit, as opposed to the more obvious purple. The long, slicked back hair, and his scowl underneath that big, red smile, make for a more angry Joker than we've ever seen

4. I don't have much to say about Romero's look. It works for the time period

5. The last two are tied, at the moment. Barry's Joker is way more grotesque than I was expecting, and since we haven't really gotten a proper look, I can't fairly judge it yet. Leto, despite the attempt to tone down his first look, it's hard to get past how much of a failure that first costume was. Once we see Barry in full, Leto will likely fall into last place
 
1. Joaquin Phoenix
2. Heath Ledger
3. Barry Keoghan (VERY likely to move up a spot)
4. Cesar Romero
5. Jack Nicholson (I prefer slim Joker sorry)
6. Jared Leto in ZSJL
7. Jared Leto in SS 2016 (This is especially sad because this Joker design is essentially perfect without the tats and bling.)
 
I've grown to like Joaquin Phoenix look alot.

I appreciate it more than I used to.

Really clown like colorful and screams "my life is a comedy philosophy that version of Joker has.

Off topic but hey this the joker thread lol.
 
He didn't fall into a vat of chemicals, guys. :funny:
Well, like I said, that annoys me. We literally haven't had an accurate Joker background in ****ing 30 plus years lmao. Is that really too much to ask for? Every live action Joker now has to have make-up or some kind of scarring/condition instead of just falling into a vat of chemicals? Dayum
 
Well, like I said, that annoys me. We literally haven't had an accurate Joker background in ****ing 30 plus years lmao. Is that really too much to ask for? Every live action Joker now has to have make-up or some kind of scarring instead of just falling into a vat of chemicals? Dayum

Deformity is pretty much the vat in chemicals idea to a tea so not sure what the problem is.
 
I don't quite follow


The whole idea that "Jon doe" body gets changed to the point of no longer being able to fit into regular society due to some sort of reaction.

They just made it so it was a disease instead.

Not like he's choosing to look like this and can wipe it off any time.
 
The whole idea that "Jon doe" body gets changed to the point of no longer being able to fit into regular society due to some sort of reaction.

They just made it so it was a disease instead.

Not like he's choosing to look like this and can wipe it off any time.
See, that's the excuse you can make with Ledger. This time, he's born with it. It's not an event that triggers or ignites something. Don't get me wrong, I like him so far and I understand the concept (it's Man Who Laughs/Elephant Man and that's a neat concept) but it's really not the same as the vat concept at all.
 
See, that's the excuse you can make with Ledger. This time, he's born with it. It's not an event that triggers or ignites something. Don't get me wrong, I like him so far and I understand the concept (it's Man Who Laughs/Elephant Man and that's a neat concept) but it's really not the same as the vat concept at all.


I don't think he looked exactly like this from birth.

I guess it's not confirmed but I assumed it deteriated and got worse over time to the point of how he looks today.

Regardless I still think "Joker" is more of physoclilgy thing or trigger than physical one.

There was some type of event or trigger that truly made him Joker.

Maybe it already happened or maybe will see it as part of his evolution.

I like the vat of chemicals less for the actual event and more as the concept of the last "joke" the universe gives him after alot of of other stuff that just makes him snap breaks the camel's back.

Don't really think it nessarcarily has to be him falling into a vat of toxic chemicals I think that overall theme and idea is pretty interchangeable personally.

But I get if you really wanted to see a more "comic accurate" explanation for Jokers look or origin.
 
Personally love that we have so many great interpretations to choose from..........
But, (and this is coming from a big fan of what we've seen of Reeves's joker, but it's great to see a genuinely horrific take), I am still a purist and prefer the vat of chemicals perma white joker.........
And besides Richard E Grant is the best joker we never had !!!!
Screenshot_20220330-213129_Samsung Internet.jpgScreenshot_20220330-213110_Samsung Internet.jpg
 
I need to see an actual full image badly. I'm tired of looking at all those shoddy cutup Photoshops.
 
That's better than any manip I've seen.

Don't think the black around the eyes is true to the actual look (and it gives off too much of a Ledger vibe here), but otherwise it's exceptional work.

I think the black around the eyes is just meant to suggest shadow, they just over did it.
 
It's too early for me to decide a ranking, but I can say I'm happy we finally have a Joker with a really fu*ked up face and, mostly, that Matt is going to the histerical laughing and brilliant behaviour/mannerisms.

I mean, Ledger perfectly worked as a Joker who laughed in a joyless way: a psychotic man who "acted" like a jokerman.
And, in that kind of Joker's characterization, no one would ever top him.

Leto tried to be a "serious" Joker too, but he felt ridicolous to me. You could see too much Leto's ego and not a narcisistic Joker.
Jesus, it left like he was playing Hamlet... It's a character named Joker, laugh, man!

And since I love Nicholson for my childhood memories and Phoenix is a terrific actor, their Joker had a lot of flaws.

Nicholson played him like... uhm... Nicholson lol
Phoenix was heartbreaking but his character was written in a too much selfpity way (but the laughing desease was brilliant).

Now it's time to see a cinematic Joker as the black humoristic showman who seems to feel something like a sexual excitement when he's laughing, so much that he is unpredictable and scary.

I mean, Barry tooks obviously something from Ledger, but his voice reminded me much more Hamill, with touches af ASHOSE and The Killing Joke come to life.

I think that another cinematic reference - beyond The Man Who Laughs, Elephant Man and Lecter - could be Clockwork Orange.
I think his Arkham re-education and the creation of Joker persona could take inspiration from it.
 
Cesar Romero… second to last? AND after one of Leto’s portrayals?

*begins Will Smith-style march to the stage*
XD

I appreciate the West Batman but it's not my cup of tea.

I like the ZSJL Joker design for what it's supposed to be. Leto's performance is still trash city though.
 
And since I love Nicholson for my childhood memories and Phoenix is
I think that another cinematic reference - beyond The Man Who Laughs, Elephant Man and Lecter - could be Clockwork Orange.
I think his Arkham re-education and the creation of Joker persona could take inspiration from it.
One of Ledger's primary inspirations was Alex and his Droogs.
 


I recommend everyone give this a watch, even if you like what you've seen
 


I recommend everyone give this a watch, even if you like what you've seen


I typically really enjoy watching FilmSpeak's video essays and did my best to go in with an open mind on his opinions pertaining to Barry's Joker. His previous essay on The Batman was great, as were his videos on why filmmakers gravitate to Batman and on Batman Returns. And I'll definitely give him credit where it's due in acknowledging other performances like Michael Emerson's in the animated adaptation of TDKR and Jerome and Jeremiah in Gotham!

But I really had to take breaks throughout this twenty minute video, because as it went on, I really think his personal biases on several key parts are drastically coloring his opinion on Barry's Joker and the mere seven or so minutes of screen time he's had in the role so far to the point of reaching a bit beyond the pale. Mind you, his opinions and general stances are absolutely valid and I did my part to keep coming back to the video and listen to his argument through.

But then FilmSpeak opts to wax lyrical about how the prosthetics are causing Barry Keoghan to not emote or express enough on camera. This thought is a mind-boggling conclusion to come to when only going off of a five minute scene, one where the whole point of the camera work and directing is to have Barry emoting more than normal in order to pierce through the proverbial veil of a shallow depth of field to create a distinctive and living silhouette.

"Why aren't Barry and Matt Reeves doing anything new and original with Joker in this scene?" FilmSpeak asks, as if we've seen films do the Clarice-Hannibal type interrogations with Batman and Joker before. And then he goes on to acknowledge and credit how Reeves has the Joker act as the proverbial eyes of clarity in the cacophonous sea of perspectives and wayward vigilantes caught up in their own hype- and the inherent comedy to be found in that distinction... but then FilmSpeak adds on, "But come on, why can't he be a clown or a guy with makeup or just green hair?"

Long story short, FilmSpeak's primary problem seems to really just be the design. And again, it's perfectly fine to dislike the design! It's an acquired taste for sure. But the arguments he brings here feel disconnected and self-contradicting with this detail in perspective. Because while the writing of the scene is too on the nose with giving away the mystery overarching the film and Bruce's character arc, as a conversation between Batman and Joker goes, we haven't seen anything on film quite like it before. And it's a strong take on the dynamic between the two characters beyond just "Oh hey, look at this one guy, he's so crazy!"

Part of the scene's brilliance to me is how quiet and reserved Pattinson plays Batman throughout the scene. There's an unusual gentleness present with Batman here, even as the conversation flips against him and Joker starts prodding at him instead of analyzing Riddler. Compare that with how immediately tense and on edge Bale plays the whole of the Interrogation Scene in TDK.

This Joker is terrifying because as FilmSpeak rightly notes (but doesn't seem to fully process to himself), he's actually not just "crazy." He's brilliantly perceptive and manipulative. There's a subtlety present in the writing and performance from Barry that really speaks to me- but even I know that I can't just go around crowning Barry as the all-time great Joker or even remotely a serious contender for the crown off merely one five minute scene. But for all of the hooplah about how he's just ripping off Heath Ledger, I find it odd how the things that are sticking with me so much are what make this Barry stand out apart from the previous actors so far.
 
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