The Joker Thread - Part 1

[metaphysician]

I honestly think everyone has some bad movie(s) they like in some capacity or another.

I think this entire community would be a much nicer place if everyone were capable of accepting that. Liking a bad movie doesn't make you a bad person; you don't need to defend your own self-worth by insisting that every movie you like must be universally accepted as good.

 

[metaphysician]

And now that I think about it. . . we *have* had a lot of prior Jokers who've been generally well liked in their versions, despite being radically different. The idea that Letoker is hated for being different than the One True Joker is kind of ludicrous. Ledger was loved despite being different than Hamill, who was loved despite not being Nicholson. They were all very different from each other, and yet to this day you still have people praising them all.

 

[hellblazer103]

Ugh, he felt far too derivative of Heath in that show, despite the fact that he was largely aping Oldman.

Well, for the time being , EVERYONE is going to automatically compare whoever plays The Joker after Heath.... to Heath. It's unavoidable. It's already happening with Jerome in Gotham and even Leto himself. Any resemblance to Heath was probably intentional, anyway, considering Bryan Fuller himself said their take on Mason Verger was like " The Joker meets Scott Disick " . He wasn't twitching and licking his lips or anything of the sort anyway, so it wasn't an EXACT impression. He's played psychopaths in other movies before and has done great in said roles without " impersonating " anyone , so it's not like he has to do the exact same thing he did with Mason ( though I'd definitely appreciate it if he borrowed some of his Mason for it )

 

[Boom]

I think this entire community would be a much nicer place if everyone were capable of accepting that. Liking a bad movie doesn't make you a bad person; you don't need to defend your own self-worth by insisting that every movie you like must be universally accepted as good.

Basically.

 

[Wildcard]

I think this entire community would be a much nicer place if everyone were capable of accepting that. Liking a bad movie doesn't make you a bad person; you don't need to defend your own self-worth by insisting that every movie you like must be universally accepted as good.

Yep. That usually happens when you're only looking at one side of the coin. There are some terrible movies that for some odd reason I love and an endless amount of people hate but I totally get it. It is what it is.

 

[Hammer!]

I'm totes fine with Batman foregoing his kill rule one more time if it means getting rid of this clown (pun obvs included).

 

[Tg11]

But if they keep Leto as Joker then him showing up in the Batman solo would make sense especially if it is done in a post-credit scene which builds up to the solo sequel since Deathstroke is supposed to be the main villain for the solo film...Joker would have to be the villain but for the sequel though

 

[DACrowe]

I think Leto is unhappy with Suicide Squad and, a lot like Affleck, regrets signing on the dotted line. I actually do not hate his Joker, but it is nothing special either. Let him go and recast with someone and do not cover them in tattoos. We can just pretend the last Joker never happened.

 

[Tg11]

But if they re-cast Joker who could play Joker in the Batman solo?

My top 5 picks for a re-cast Joker are:

Matt Smith (Doctor Who, Terminator Genisys)
Aaron Paul
James Franco
Rhys Wakefield
Jake Gyllenhaal

 

[GothamBat]

I really don't understand how you're all so intent on them re-casting. Re-castings are the worst. shatters suspension of disbelief, tarnishes the continuity ect. I'd hate it. I especially don't understand the ones saying we should just pretend the last joker never happened? like seriously.

 

[GothamBat]

I really don't think Leto regrets signing on as Joker. He's said it was one of the most fun roles he's ever had. He snapchatted Joker pics the other day, he shared a Suicide Squad/lady gaga parody video last week. He knows how iconic and defining of a role it is and I'd be so surprised if he just let it go. Hell, his joker look in particular has become iconic. Regardless of how many complainers there are, you can't deny the strength of the iconography. The tats, the grill, the hair. It very striking, graphic and distinctive and instantly-recognizable. When a character you've brought to life has that level of recognisability, as an actor, you can't just forget about it and dismiss it. If anything, considering the kind of guy he is, at this point in time I think he just wants to completely hit it out of the park when he takes another crack at it so nobody could even attempt to rag on his portrayal. (although considering how invariably petulant some people are, they still would).

 

[GothamBat]

I think Leto was just annoyed and disappointed that they cut most of his scenes out. I would be too. Hell, I'm annoyed basically everytime I hear or see something cut out from one of these movies. As fans, most of us never want anything ending up on the cutting room floor. Let alone if you're the guy who actually put in work to create that content in the first place and if instead of one little scene it's basically 90% of your performance.
Just watch the B-roll footage. There's a part where the Joker goes into the booth where the security guard got blown up with the exploding package, hits him with a bat and says "some people just don't know when to die". That's an awesome moment and if you think that there were a ton of those filmed, of course Leto's going to be annoyed when they're all omitted and his character's presence is pretty much glossed over. He probably thought he'd be one of the main focal points of the movie, that's how he played it. He wasn't wrong to think that either. We all did too even without considering the focus they put on him when they marketed the movie. When has the Joker ever been a side-player?

 

[Question]

^ I agree. I believe Leto should come back as the Joker with better writing and direction and I think he could give a great turn.

 

[Wildcard]

I really don't understand how you're all so intent on them re-casting. Re-castings are the worst. shatters suspension of disbelief, tarnishes the continuity ect. I'd hate it. I especially don't understand the ones saying we should just pretend the last joker never happened? like seriously.

I don't understand it either but it doesn't really matter at the end of the day. Not like there's an actual chance of a recast happening.

 

[Zoey141]

Martin Wallström can totally pull off the Joker with elan. That said, no one can fill Heath Ledger's shoes.

 

[NotNickFury]

^ I agree. I believe Leto should come back as the Joker with better writing and direction and I think he could give a great turn.

Yeah, with proper direction or someone who has a real grasp on the Joker the way that Nolan and Ledger did, Leto's take on the character could turn around and have some real menace to him. That's one thing I think Leto's Joker lacked, though he wasn't the primary threat in Suicide Squad. Regardless, I never really saw his Joker as all that intimidating or scary.

Not that there's one right way to do the Joker, but I feel there ought to be a good balance of humor and menace, which immediately makes me think of a particular scene from Mask of the Phantasm.

[YT]QJeIG07wY3A[/YT]

 

[GothamBat]

Yeah, with proper direction or someone who has a real grasp on the Joker the way that Nolan and Ledger did, Leto's take on the character could turn around and have some real menace to him. That's one thing I think Leto's Joker lacked, though he wasn't the primary threat in Suicide Squad. Regardless, I never really saw his Joker as all that intimidating or scary.

Not that there's one right way to do the Joker, but I feel there ought to be a good balance of humor and menace, which immediately makes me think of a particular scene from Mask of the Phantasm.

[YT]QJeIG07wY3A[/YT]

I actually feel the exact opposite way. I never got any real menace from Heath's Joker. He proclaims early on that he doesn't want to kill Batman. He wasn't really ever in situations where he was in a position of power. He was the underdog a lot, whether he was getting his a$$ kicked by Batman, sneaking away from the mob meeting after being rejected, or trying to get Batman to run him over. He was also fond of talking and cracking wise.

Leto's Joker was aggressive, cut-throat and intense with a discernible bubbling rage fueling his vehemence and ferocity. Within the narrative, he's also positioned as the undisputed leader of a prominent criminal organization similar to the mafia that have the means of taking over high security facilities with ease. He's also placed in situations where people defer to him and he's authoritative and influential. Early on, when we're first introduced to him, he's trying to sweet-talk and connive Harleen, but a handful of shots later we're shown him taking contol of Arkham, conquering, overwhelming and subduing the whole asylum, torturing Harleen with very disturbing and off-putting rape overtones.

If given a choice of which one of these Jokers I'd prefer having a vendetta against me, I'd definitely pick Heath's Joker. Neither one would be ideal obviously and I'd probably get merc'd either way but the thought of Leto knocking on my front door with gun fire after murdering everyone in sight and injecting me with a nanite explosive after he flashes a screen that shows my girlfriend with a knife to her throat... yeah that's the scarier one to me.

 

[matt47]

I dunno man...this guy looks way more terrified than anyone Letoker made contact with.
[YT]dHhZtBDtqxo[/YT]

 

[GothamBat]

I dunno man...this guy looks way more terrified than anyone Letoker made contact with.
[YT]dHhZtBDtqxo[/YT]

I honestly thought that scene was kinda cheesy. Like.. especially at the end where the camera moves around. Not a terrible scene at all just mildly cheesy and the fact that it was filmed in that found footage style felt gimmicky to me. Even before the over-load of found footage horror movies being released.

 

[matt47]

I honestly thought that scene was kinda cheesy. Like.. especially at the end where the camera moves around. Not a terrible scene at all just mildly cheesy and the fact that it was filmed in that found footage style felt gimmicky to me. Even before the over-load of found footage horror movies being released.

Do you find Letoker cheesy?

 

[bapi]

I honestly thought that scene was kinda cheesy. Like.. especially at the end where the camera moves around. Not a terrible scene at all just mildly cheesy and the fact that it was filmed in that found footage style felt gimmicky to me. Even before the over-load of found footage horror movies being released.

That scenes was filmed / directed by HL himself btw.

 

[GothamBat]

Do you find Letoker cheesy?

Honestly, barring some scenes where he was trying way too hard like when he was snorting and grimacing as he circled Griggs and the way he acted in that deleted scene with the motorbike chase.. I found him to be extremely badass at best and serviceable at worst. I especially love the look. He's muscular and handsome with a perfect jawline but somewhat emaciated, pallid, ghoulish and diseased looking.

His nose, lips, expression, lack of eyebrows.. I just love the look. I instantly think of the BTA joker

 

[GothamBat]

That scenes was filmed / directed by HL himself btw.

I heard. Didn't you find the way the camera moved as the guy screamed to be a little.. cheesy and kind of a try-hard move? I feel like it would have had more of an impact if it ended on a silent and subdued still shot of the guy sitting there and over-the-top yelling in pain. Would have made the viewer question and wonder what was going to happen next. Instead, we're not made to wonder because we're basically shown. (even though we aren't shown) idk if that made sense to you

 

[The Infernal]

I think recasting would be fine here. I mean why would people want to carry on with something they didn't enjoy or even omit the character altogether when you can at least try and correct what went wrong?

 

[The Joker]

I heard. Didn't you find the way the camera moved as the guy screamed to be a little.. cheesy and kind of a try-hard move? I feel like it would have had more of an impact if it ended on a silent and subdued still shot of the guy sitting there and over-the-top yelling in pain. Would have made the viewer question and wonder what was going to happen next. Instead, we're not made to wonder because we're basically shown. (even though we aren't shown) idk if that made sense to you

Absolutely not. It is probably the most menacing Joker scene ever put on film. Bar none. The use of hand held camera gave it a terrifying realism like you were watching a real terrorist video.

"Look at me.......LOOK AT ME!!!!!". Still gives me goosebumps. This is cut throat Joker who actually inspired terror and anarchy, took over the underworld, plunged Gotham into chaos, laughed hysterically when Batman hit him, and turned Batman's life upside down. 100 times more compelling than Letoker's pathetic hunt to find his gf. He was practically Joker in name only.