The Joker Thread - Part 1

[Schlosser85]

All this Phoenix should be the Joker for Reeves talk but we need to ask the real question, would he even want to?? It would be cool, great actor, great with the character.

However Phoenix strikes me as an actor who wouldn't want to be in a big franchise movie and I don't think he's done many or any sequels. I think he only took Joker because of the character study aspect and because it really wasn't a typical comic book movie. It's a super art-house type film disguised as a comic book movie. So unless he's contractually obligated, I don't see him having any desire in reprising the role for Reeves, but I guess crazier things have happened.

Phoenix is notoriously uninterested in sequels or reprising the same character twice and has historically been hard to pin down for franchise roles. He turned down both Doctor Strange and Bruce Banner. He has signaled an openness to doing something else with Joker again, but also made it sound like he'd only come back if he was working with Phillips again.

Also he just strikes me as someone who prefers his unconventional weird indie movie stuff and would be less interested in playing The Joker in a more conventional comic book movie where he's fighting Batman, but I could be wrong.

 

[thebatfan5194]

Phoenix is notoriously uninterested in sequels or reprising the same character twice and has historically been hard to pin down for franchise roles. He turned down both Doctor Strange and Bruce Banner. He has signaled an openness to doing something else with Joker again, but also made it sound like he'd only come back if he was working with Phillips again.

Also he just strikes me as someone who prefers his unconventional weird indie movie stuff and would be less interested in playing The Joker in a more conventional comic book movie where he's fighting Batman, but I could be wrong.

Money talks. This is easily the biggest movie of his entire career, that can change your outlook on things.

 

[thebatfan5194]

Joaquin’s Joker just doesn’t seem like the type to........do anything you would expect the Joker to do in a movie where Batman is involved.
I can’t imagine him having some sort of villainous plot that Batman has to stop.

Who says the movie has to be some sort of conventional villainous plot? You can even follow up on some of the themes established in the Joker movie, the 99% vs the 1%, but see the perspective flipped to Bruce’s side. Does Batman hurt more than he helps, coming from a completely different world he could never understand?

 

[Schlosser85]

Money talks. This is easily the biggest movie of his entire career, that can change your outlook on things.

He turned down a lot of money by declining to join the MCU.

 

[Boom]

Phoenix is one of a few actors who I genuinely believe when they say they don't care about that stuff.

 

[thebatfan5194]

He turned down a lot of money by declining to join the MCU.

but let’s be realistic here, the Joker character is far more interesting as an actor then being Doctor Strange in the MCU long running TV show. He loved playing the character, and doing the role again would realistically only be one, maybe two more appearances at most. The character allows for more in depth explorations of character and themes that a big CGI fest that most Marvel movies have been these days can’t because they stick to a formula.

I think that is a more easy pill to swallow for someone like Phoenix rather than signing a 10 pic deal with the MCU...

 

[Jekecy]

Phoenix was in deep negotiations for Doctor Strange. It just ultimately fell through. You don't sit at the table and talk with Marvel if you're not open to the conditions of a franchise.

Joaquin is selective, not dismissive. He'll control the conversations whenever WB inevitably comes to him.

 

[cryptic name]

I'd much rather see Reeves develop his own take on The Joker with a new actor. If they want to do a sequel to Joker with Phoenix that's cool, but keep it in it's own world.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

Let's get back to discussing the Joker that matters.

Spoiler

 

[antsman41]

Lucky we just got him as Riddler instead of.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Guess Driver is the only Joker now!

 

[The Endless]

We should go back in time to 96 and kidnap Nic Cage, bring him to the present, give him loads of coke, and let him go full ham as Joker.

It would be glorious.

 

[Mani-Man]

We should go back in time to 96 and kidnap Nic Cage, bring him to the present, give him loads of coke, and let him go full ham as Joker.

It would be glorious.

Honestly thats not even the worst idea...i mean the whole going back in time and coke thing is...but cage as joker isnt the worst.

The guy could let completely loose, you dont even need a script.

 

[Doc Samson]

The only way I would want to see this Joker against Batman would be in this world from the Joker's perspective. That way, especially with an R-rating, Batman could be truly terrifying and menacing.

I can't imagine WB letting a Batman of any kind into an R-rated movie though, sounds like getting Joker made was a struggle in and of itself.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I'd really rather not see yet another version of the Joker, but for a hypothetical casting my pick would be Caleb Landry Jones.

 

[The Endless]

Honestly thats not even the worst idea...i mean the whole going back in time and coke thing is...but cage as joker isnt the worst.

The guy could let completely loose, you dont even need a script.

Lol yea he wouldnt need drugs.

But yea I'm convinced a mid 90s prime Nic Cage would be such a great Joker. Shame.

 

[Arachnerd]

I'd suggest maybe saving the Joker for the last film in the trilogy given how overexposed he is right now (and letting time pass by so Phoenix's interpretation of the character isn't as prevalent in everyone's minds).

 

[Andre Richards]

We should go back in time to 96 and kidnap Nic Cage, bring him to the present, give him loads of coke, and let him go full ham as Joker.

It would be glorious.

lol, i spit my drink here

 

[Doctor Jones]

I'd be fine if we didn't see the Joker for a long time. But he is now a brand unto himself now so that's not possible.

 

[BattleAngel]

I'd be fine if we didn't see the Joker for a long time. But he is now a brand unto himself now so that's not possible.

I think deep down, Joker has always been more popular than Batman. This has certainly been true since Nicholson got top billing in 89. Anyone could become the Joker - there's a little Joker in all of us. There's not a little Batman in all of us, besides the urge for revenge. His money aside, the level of discipline, focus, ingenuity and skill make Batman a superhero that the average joe just can't relate to in the same way as a guy who paints his face white, dyes his hair green and shoots someone. (It's also, in my opinion, why Batman is actually the more challenging character to knock out of the park)

Jared Leto brought the stock down so low, and the Snyderverse was such an abject failure, particularly with Batfleck, that JOKER's ascension has fully separated Joker's cinematic appearances from Batman for the time being. Kind of crazy. R-Rated Joker could even hypothetically outgross The Batman, and will almost certainly turn the higher profit.

 

[Doc Samson]

I think deep down, Joker has always been more popular than Batman. This has certainly been true since Nicholson got top billing in 89. Anyone could become the Joker - there's a little Joker in all of us. There's not a little Batman in all of us, besides the urge for revenge.

Interesting. I always thought the appeal of the Joker is the fact that he's unbridled insanity, something that most people have no capacity for. It's also why I think Joaquin's Joker, for me, isn't really the Joker. He's no mastermind and he's only killing those who've wronged him for the most part, which goes against character.

I also think there are real world examples of "Batman" type people in a sense. Nancy Grace and John Walsh come to mind, people who took personal tragedy and used it for a life altering purpose of catching/convicting criminals. Obviously sans the theatrics, but you get what I'm saying...

 

[thebatfan5194]

Interesting. I always thought the appeal of the Joker is the fact that he's unbridled insanity, something that most people have no capacity for. It's also why I think Joaquin's Joker, for me, isn't really the Joker. He's no mastermind and he's only killing those who've wronged him for the most part, which goes against character.

I also think there are real world examples of "Batman" type people in a sense. Nancy Grace and John Walsh come to mind, people who took personal tragedy and used it for a life altering purpose of catching/convicting criminals. Obviously sans the theatrics, but you get what I'm saying...

I think the whole “Arthur Fleck is clearly not a criminal mastermind, therefore he’s not the true Joker” idea is odd... was the nameless comedian who fell into the acid in the Killing Joke a criminal mastermind before becoming the Joker? He was almost the polar opposite, and that was part of the reason the gang singled him out to be the “Red Hood” in the first place and be the patsy.

 

[Doc Samson]

I think the whole “Arthur Fleck is clearly not a criminal mastermind, therefore he’s not the true Joker” idea is odd...

Well, besides the fact that the Killing Joke isn't necessarily true, this Arthur comes off a little unintelligent in general, no?

The guy looked to be struggling with his clown shoes. Nothing about this portrayal hints at Arthur being even remotely smart, mostly due to some of his conditions I suppose but yeah, I can't see this version concocting any sort of plan or scheme that Batman couldn't figure out relatively fast...

 

[thebatfan5194]

Well, besides the fact that the Killing Joke isn't necessarily true, this Arthur comes off a little unintelligent in general, no?

The guy looked to be struggling with his clown shoes. Nothing about this portrayal hints at Arthur being even remotely smart, mostly due to some of his conditions I suppose but yeah, I can't see this version concocting any sort of plan or scheme that Batman couldn't figure out relatively fast...

I mean the struggling comedian falling in the vat of chemicals thing also isn’t exactly a Killing Joke exclusive thing. Wasn’t that Joker’s accepted origin for forever?

Characters, like people grow and change. Arthur had his “fall into acid” moment when he put on the makeup, and he also is about 10-15 years ahead of Bruce becoming Batman. I don’t think it’s inconceivable to think he could grow into the more masterful crime prince over a decade and a half. Maybe that would even make an interesting film/sequel on it’s own, seeing his transition!

 

[Astro13Zombie]

I’ve seen him mentioned a few times in this thread but I’m feeling it right now.