The Joker Thread - Part 1

Yeah, the idea that Reeves and Phoenix couldn’t collab and make something work based on… nothing(?) seems odd, but still, the point is NOT to force Reeves into anything.

If they all sit down for a convo to discuss Reeves’ Joker interpretation/casting and Phoenix isn’t on his shortlist, or he just says no to the suggestion, then that’s the end of that. Move on. Get CLJ (haha)

Idek if I’d call it a missed opportunity like I know most people on social media will when Phoenix eventually doesn’t get cast.
 
The other thing about the Tarantino example is that he is somebody who rewrites his characters once he collaborates with his actors. Bill was originally much more of a suave James Bond type when he was trying to get Warren Beatty or Kevin Costner to play him. It was only after Beatty suggested Carradine that he rewrote the character to have more of the Kung Fu iconography.
 
It's not based on nothing, Emielaen. It's based on Reeves himself saying he's already straight-up told DC/WB that he'd only be interesting in doing Batman if they stepped back and let him do it his way, because it's the only way he knows how to make a film.

The guy literally turned down this movie, until they came back to him and told him it's 100% his baby.

Doesn't sound like a guy willing to let whatever else is happening in the WB stable impact his stuff. Yes, WB could fire him and mash Pattinson & Phoenix up together anyway, but given the multiple reports of how happy they are with The Batman alongside all the supplementary stuff they're greenlighting, that's not going to happen.

Also, what's the likelihood you're going to sign up Joaquin Phoenix to a multi-picture franchise deal? Sounds like it was originally just going to be Joker, but he enjoyed it so he'll do the second (I'd imagine he probably has quite a bit of say in what the second one's going to be, anyway - which he probably did with the first too). That guy's not going to cede control to Reeves over some long-game thing.

All-in-all, it's not that there's no universe where this couldn't happen. It's just that it won't, because they've already had the whole "I'm only signing on if it's my movie without people breathing down my neck" conversation.
 
Idk if I’d call them suggesting an actor completely railroading him into a different interpretation then what he has in mind. I’m also going off of Phoenix as a suggestion being arguably the greatest suggestion. It’s not like they’re suggesting he use Leto, but I guess that’s not entirely the point you guys are making.
 
Eddie Dean said:
But why wouldn’t he be into using Joaquin?
Click to expand...


Why would he?

It's his from-scratch interpretation of Batman, doubt the guy's interested in adopting someone else's take on the primo villain and trying to make hay.

And again, you'd be soft-rebooting Joaquin's guy anyway. Pretty clearly the Gotham that guy inhabits is a different Gotham to what we've seen from Reeves' Gotham so far.

It's like...why bother? We've got all this multiverse shenananigans stuff going on anyway, just keep Joaquin's Joker lining WB's pockets in a separate self-contained corner, keep Keaton away continuing the "main DC-verse" or whatever they want to call it, and let Matt do Matt.

Either way they're making the same amount of money. If Joker 2 breaks a billion or whatever, it's not like there's that far to go up from there by shoehorning him into Matt's Batman-verse. Hell, they could do their own "Joaquin-Jokerverse" Batman if they really felt so compelled. Same amount of butts in seats and dollars in WB accounts.
 
Who knows what lies within the heart of Matt Reeves? You can have your personal preference, but it’s pretty silly to say you’d know what his thoughts on it are.
 
Eddie Dean said:
But why wouldn’t he be into using Joaquin?
Click to expand...
Because the character would have been written and likely cast beforehand. You can’t suddenly ask Reeves to make his Joker a mumbling 45 year old actor if the opposite was written into the script. You can bend the age of Joker but all the young actors aren’t going to say no in time for Matt to say “hey! Nobody wants to play this part! I Guess i can rethink him to fit whatever Joaquin’s doing!”. I seriously doubt that’s what happened. Actors would be chomping at the bit to play Joker. In 2021 you’re gonna find a lot of actors not taking Penguin seriously. Even Jonah was like ehhh pass
 
Do you really think The Joker has been secretly cast and kept secret this whole time? Do you really think it’s possible they can keep that under wraps?
 
Sounds like they might have with Two-Face and/or even a bunch of other rogues in Arkham, if certain rumors have any merit. *Shrugs*

I'm not even necessarily one of those who do think Joker's in (or even hinted at) this one, and certainly wouldn't want the guy playing the cop to turn out to be him in a twist.

But stranger things have happened. Lucasfilm kept Luke pretty airtight in Mando, it's not strictly impossible.

Either way, I just can't see it being Phoenix. You do up a pro/con list on that and the only "pro" is basically financial possibilities. Which, if he's already getting a Joker 2 (and if that's a moneymaker who knows, maybe even a third?) you're still lining your pockets bigtime anyway.

Like, say Superman Returns was some giant hit upon release. You wouldn't want to broach the idea to Nolan of really-really-wanting him to do some World's Finest movie. If he suggests it it's one thing, but you don't impose on someone with a particular vision for things like that.

Certainly not here, when Reeves has taken his ball and gone home once already.
 
Don't know I'd say "obviously". But I wouldn't be shocked if they went that way, considering what's been floating around between the Matty McConaughaughaughenaynay stuff and the "holy crap the ending!" tweeties from the test-screener.
 
Most of the stuff we're talking about is rumor & speculation.

"Obviously" is strong language, and I'd disagree with it. At the same time, it seems clear this isn't going to be a "one-off villain-of-the-week at a time" situation with Reeves, we're probably going to be getting a bunch of high-profile rogues inhabiting Gotham simultaneously, not necessarily all antagonists at the same time but inhabiting & fleshing-out the world.

If you were going that way, setting it up at the end of the movie with a handful of familiar loons already in Arkham straitjackets would be an efficient way of doing it. I don't necessarily buy the rumors, but they'd make all the sense in the world.
 
I'd just caution people not to get ahead of themselves. A "mic drop" moment could be a rogues gallery reveal, sure. It could also be Alfred getting killed, or the revelation that Bruce's parents were corrupt AF. You have to be wary of feedback from test screenings, because they can be prone to hyperbole. And the feedback is vague enough that a shocking moment could be any number of things by that viewer's own definition.

Case in point: one viewer said there is a moment in the film that made them "literally grip their knee," and now a good chunk of people just assume this means The Joker is in.
 
That knee grip was the ending and it’s a rogues gallery setup. Yes I believe them. You don’t have to. I’ve been saying Joker is in this movie for ages now. Almost since the beginning. Reeves is doing the big 4.
 
shauner111 said:
That knee grip was the ending and it’s a rogues gallery setup. Yes I believe them. You don’t have to. I’ve been saying Joker is in this movie for ages now. Almost since the beginning. Reeves is doing the big 4.
Click to expand...
But they never actually said it was a rogues gallery setup, shauner. That's my point. So what is there to believe? That there is a knee grip moment? That's easy enough to believe. The rogues gallery thing is you drawing your own conclusions.
 
I don't know that many people would be excited and raving about Alfred dying or (even less so) Thomas & Martha turning out to be d-bags.

No, that doesn't equate to "it's definitely Joker!" or "McConaughey's Big Bad Harv!". Point is, the movie's not out yet and we're speculating. Speculating isn't "jumping to conclusions", it's throwing ideas around.

Agreed Shauner's coming on too strong with the "obviously" as if it's a definite though.
 
I believe Shauner also has a Mandela effect where he believes Reeves posted the four villains from the 66 movie on Twitter, but in fact Reeves only posted Riddler, Catwoman and Penguin
 
I mean in terms of canon Batman villains, these are the only ones that ever popped up in the West show, if memory serves.

Catwoman
Clock King
False Face
Joker
Mad Hatter
Mr. Freeze
Penguin
Puzzler
Riddler
 
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