Justice League The Joss Whedon Thread

Let's agree to disagree. :up:

As long as they keep the DCeU going, you still win. Which may be the case considering how invested they are at this point.

It isn't a win if they keep going but turn it into a sh***y marvel knock-off. F***, if they had to knock off any universe, the universe they should be aiming for is the Fox-men Universe, because since the fall of the DCEU with JL, they are without a doubt the best Cinematic comic book universe going right now largely due to their (admittedly more recent) mastery of perfect tone mixed with letting a movie be what it needs to be.
 
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Yeah.

But I could have done without Whedon's cringe worthy dialogue tho.

I could have done without the cringe-worthy dialogue in MOS, BvS, SS and JL. JL actually had some genuinely funny moments. MoS and BvS fell on their faces any time they tried to attempt humour.
 
We finally found the one person who doesn't think Laurence Fishburne is funny, guys.

In other words, water. Wet. :o
 
It isn't a win if they keep going but turn it into a sh***y marvel knock-off. F***, if they had to knock off any universe, the universe they should be aiming for is the Fox-men Universe, because since the fall of the DCEU with JL, they are without a doubt the best Cinematic comic book universe going right now largely due to their (admittedly more recent) mastery of perfect tone mixed with letting a movie be what it needs to be.

Yep. All of that, but specially the bolded part.
 
It isn't a win if they keep going but turn it into a sh***y marvel knock-off. F***, if they had to knock off any universe, the universe they should be aiming for is the Fox-men Universe, because since the fall of the DCEU with JL, they are without a doubt the best Cinematic comic book universe going right now largely due to their (admittedly more recent) mastery of perfect tone mixed with letting a movie be what it needs to be.

They certainly were until Apocalypse... Yeesh... That movie. But dofp and first class were indeed perfectly balanced. Funny, dark as sh--, emotional, action packed, character driven, good lore, good world building.
 
Erik Lensherr, when done right, can be one of the best-conceived characters in comic books. In Apocalypse, he’s reduced to:

working in a steel mill
having a wife and daughter whose sole narrative purpose is to be victims
angry-crying
parroting lines from the previous films
destroying the world by tearing apart its metallic core or…something along those lines

Very ham-fisted, very redundant and in general it felt like a cheap imitation of the character we got in first class and DOFP. This once magnificent character is reduced to a cliché. The effort spent establishing the comradery and conflict between him and Xavier is twisted into laughably simplistic point-counterpoint crap about hope. All of the subtlety of the ideological/political rift between those two men on display in the previous two films is gone.

They botched Charles too. They couldn't decide whether he should be the reflective patriarch or a goofy quippy guy. That balance made sense some couple decades ago in First Class, but when Xavier is, presumably, intended to be in his forties, it just doesn’t work. He's supposed to be Patrick Stewart professor X by then. That version of the character might have had a few lines of wry wit and dry humor but he was never bumbling and goofy.

Cyclops. They can’t decide if he’s a smug jock, an ungainly nerd or a scared teenager grappling with his powers. His brother dies, he's sad about it, then it's never mentioned or referenced again. Sloppy.

Nightcrawler serves as unfunny comic relief and a convenient plot device to zap our characters to where they need to be. Just remembering the quality of Alan Cumming’s take on the character makes me sad. Let’s move on.

I get that with Apocalypse, you're going to want his four horsemen but to have 3 of them be characters that aren't previously established makes the movie feel way overstuffed.

The costumes look like like belong on knock-off action figures.

Rushed, truncated characterization all around. Giving Quicksilver the motivation of wanting to get to know his dad is smart, but the film handles it so clumsily that I couldn’t help but roll my eyes every time it resurfaced. Again, had there been an adjoining film between DOFP and Apocalypse this might’ve been convincing, but instead it’s representative of a film where every character gets an arc no matter how briefly or poorly handled. Because that’s what modern screenwriting demands.

The film lacks a protagonist for God's sake lol

Sloppy writing reliant on coincidences, unfocused story, overstuffed, dimensionless characters, pretty terrible CGI, an awful set piece at the end that couldn't look more fakey if they tried, rushed, perfunctory narrative beats and arcs... They did a great job in First class and DOFP of tying the characters and their kind to the government, the CIA, to society and to the world at large, making the whole thing feel grounded, authentic, real. In Apocalypse, the gov seemingly doesn't exist. Same with just...society as a whole. I think we got one shot of people panicking when the nukes were launched. That's it. These characters and mutants in general seemingly exist in a vacuum.

The sad thing is, All this movie needed to be was decent and it still would have made for the best trilogy ever just by virtue of the other two films being so strong.

Also Sophie Turner was gawd awful and her american accent was probably one of the worst I've heard in any movie this decade.
 
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It isn't a win if they keep going but turn it into a sh***y marvel knock-off. F***, if they had to knock off any universe, the universe they should be aiming for is the Fox-men Universe, because since the fall of the DCEU with JL, they are without a doubt the best Cinematic comic book universe going right now largely due to their (admittedly more recent) mastery of perfect tone mixed with letting a movie be what it needs to be.

OK sure...so you want WB to focus on copying the one comic book franchise that makes less money than the DCEU? The only exception being Deadpool which is a straight-up comedy/action film which some of you fanboys seem to be so hell-bent on complaining about.
 
OK sure...so you want WB to focus on copying the one comic book franchise that makes less money than the DCEU? The only exception being Deadpool which is a straight-up comedy/action film which some of you fanboys seem to be so hell-bent on complaining about.

I think the X-Men movies make less money because of the characters themselves. They don't have the same brand recognition as the DC characters or, now, the MCU characters. Tight, , compelling, emotionally resonant stories set in the real world with the DC characters should still make a lot of money.
 
I think the X-Men movies make less money because of the characters themselves. They don't have the same brand recognition as the DC characters or, now, the MCU characters. Tight, , compelling, emotionally resonant stories set in the real world with the DC characters should still make a lot of money.

X-Men are just as well known as anyone in the MCU with the exception of Spider-Man and maybe Hulk. And the film franchise has been around for over a decade. Its a well-established franchise at this point. The film's lack of success is due to average or poor films being released. The only really good X-Men films as far as I'm concerned were First Class and Logan and the latter feels very detached from the rest of the universe.
 
There is no way the x men series is anywhere near the mcu in terms of quality.

It has at most 5 good films.

X1,x3, origins and apocolapse were all awful.

No superhero movie has wasted a cast as good as much as the original trilogy did.
 
What possible reason could Joss Whedon have for making up that he added that into the film?

I'm inclined to believe that Whedon's additions generally made the movie better. I liked a lot of what he added to the film, especially the scenes with Bruce. Really rounded this version of Batman out nicely.

There are a few "pandering" moments that I don't see Chris Terrio writing, which audiences loved and I could have done without, though most of the jokes were genuinely funny upon first viewing.

One thing Whedon did well is keep much the humor character-based, and characters “voices” intact. They all had fairly unique voices, and didn't just seem like the same voice having a roundtable discussion. The jokes, cadences of dialogue and speech patterns are not homogenous among the characters. It's not all pop culture references and inside jokes. That, and the humor was often used to address difficult subjects, the way it is in real life, instead of just being joke after joke. Some of that might be Terrio, it's hard to tell.
 
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X-Men are just as well known as anyone in the MCU with the exception of Spider-Man and maybe Hulk. And the film franchise has been around for over a decade. Its a well-established franchise at this point. The film's lack of success is due to average or poor films being released. The only really good X-Men films as far as I'm concerned were First Class and Logan and the latter feels very detached from the rest of the universe.

I disagree. You see far more kids dressing up as Marvel or DC characters. You see far more excitement for MCU and DC movies. Other than Logan and Deadpool, which were unique movies, the X-Men are a team first, rather than individual characters that speak to the general audience. Within the comics and for comic book fans, yes, Cyclops or Jean Grey are as well known as any other character, but to the general audience, it's the X-Men as a whole that they see.

What allows the MCU movies to reach a wider audience with their characters is that 1) they make movies about their individual characters so they can shine, and 2) they have developed a formula to make these movies appeal to the widest possible audience which means they try to make it as fun as possible, so kids see them, adults see them, families see them together, etc. That leads to a lot more money.

DC can get away with the X-Men tone as long as they are also good movies and still make a lot of money. The key is, WB needs to know what they are doing. WW found the right balance, I think, for DC movies going forward if they want to balance quality with box office.
 

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