Justice League The Justice League General & Speculation Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 45

[Astro13Zombie]

That supes one

 

[Black Narcissus]

That supes one

I gave away two copies of that for free. I regret that now.

 

[_Superman_]

The Superman one is framed and in my media room. I'm now waiting for my wall poster of the Alex Ross inspired poster Justice League poster with Superman in it. That's going to cover my whole back wall of the media room and I can't wait.

 

[Patchwork Man]

Which is, btw, why I place so much of the blame on WB. After two movies, they knew what they were getting with Snyder. They should've replaced him from the beginning and delayed Justice League so they could do the movie they were looking for, rather than a Frankenstein. WB has nobody to blame but themselves for how this turned out.

Right, no Frankenstein. Just a full-on Avengers pastiche with stupid humor and zero stakes. Lots of smiling and thinking aloud. That's the ticket. And don't forget the throwaway Elfman score. That's important.

 

[Limonade]

Right, no Frankenstein. Just a full-on Avengers pastiche with stupid humor and zero stakes. That's the ticket. And don't forget the throwaway Elfman score. That's important.

Who knows?

Once Snyder's scenes was in the can. It was really about using it or losing it. And WB invested already so much, to lose that... would be tantamount to throwing money away.

Similarly, they'd have to go back to formula... and WB being the Green Goblin that it is--decided to take matter into its own hands.

A full Whedon ensemble film from start to finish is... well, it's the Avenger. A 1 billion dollar monster.

I'm pretty sure if Whedon would have pulled it off on his own again--DC fans would be like the Miami Heat fans on winning the NBA Finals with LeBron.

 

[kguillou]

Just my own opinion, I dont think I would have liked a full start to finish Whedon JL film. I cut him some slack for the circumstances he was in but for better or worse this was a peek into a would-be full Whedon Justice League movie. It wouldnt have been my cup of tea.

 

[matt47]

I've been wondering. Was the whole parademon alarm thing all Whedon or was it in Zack's movie?

 

[idiot09]

I've been wondering. Was the whole parademon alarm thing all Whedon or was it in Zack's movie?

I think the whole Parademons are hungry for hear and dont like the alarm sound was a Whedon addition to simplify the plot.

 

[_Superman_]

Honestly I wouldn't have wanted a full on Whedon movie for JL. I just wanted to see the story started in Man of Steel be completed with Justice League. That is what I was looking forward to seeing and I didn't get that. It's like what they did in Marvel and while the Avengers made a lot of money Favreau had a plan on where he wanted to take Iron Man and the Avengers and Marvel interfered with Iron Man 2 much like what WB did with Superman v Batman and then they (Marvel) took Avengers away from Favreau and while the end results turned out alright I can't but help and wonder what Favreau would've done. Just like while Justice League is an ok movie I still can't help but wonder how Snyder would've done things because that's what I was looking forward to seeing the big payoff to all the movies we invested in.

 

[GothamBat]

I think the whole Parademons are hungry for hear and dont like the alarm sound was a Whedon addition to simplify the plot.

It absolutely was. It allowed them to cut out all the scenes of Bruce and the league investigating parademons by just having Bruce know from the start. It's so simplistic and dumb even by cartoon standards.

 

[_Superman_]

It absolutely was. It allowed them to cut out all the scenes of Bruce and the league investigating parademons by just having Bruce know from the start. It's so simplistic and dumb even by cartoon standards.

It's not dumb IMO it's just how they were able to cut down on time and cut down on Lois Lane as well since she was supposed to be investigating all of this as well.

 

[GothamBat]

It's not dumb IMO it's just how they were able to cut down on time and cut down on Lois Lane as well since she was supposed to be investigating all of this as well.

Well from a meta perspective as a way to cut out huge chunks of the movie yeah it's a functional idea. I just think the concept itself within the story is simplistic and cartoony as hell.

 

[_Superman_]

Well from a meta perspective as a way to cut out huge chunks of the movie yeah it's a functional idea. I just think the concept itself within the story is simplistic and cartoony as hell.

I agree. I just was just lazy on their part. I can only hope Aquaman and Captain Marvel (and yes I am call him that I refuse to be pushed around by Marvel and the mouse) will be better and have less interference.

 

[The Shape]

These are dope.

 

[markjoedelonge]

Did Ciaran Hinds participate in any of the reshoots?

 

[Spider-Fan]

Honestly I wouldn't have wanted a full on Whedon movie for JL. I just wanted to see the story started in Man of Steel be completed with Justice League. That is what I was looking forward to seeing and I didn't get that. It's like what they did in Marvel and while the Avengers made a lot of money Favreau had a plan on where he wanted to take Iron Man and the Avengers and Marvel interfered with Iron Man 2 much like what WB did with Superman v Batman and then they (Marvel) took Avengers away from Favreau and while the end results turned out alright I can't but help and wonder what Favreau would've done. Just like while Justice League is an ok movie I still can't help but wonder how Snyder would've done things because that's what I was looking forward to seeing the big payoff to all the movies we invested in.

Not turning this into a Marvel thread, but I am glad we got The Avengers movie we got. It at the end of the day is my favorite CBM and most fun I ever had with a superhero movie. I wouldn't trade it for anything. Now, IM2 conversely is my least favorite MCU film, and I agree it reeks of studio interference and could easily have been better, but it was the compromise movie. Still, at the end of the day, The Avengers is amazing.

As for JL, I would like to see Zack's version, of course. I think the movie we ultimately got satisfied on no fronts, really. It felt like some weird hybrid movie and fell apart for me. I at least with Zack's movies can see he had a vision. Whether we agreed with it or not is up for debate. I'd rather have seen Zack's vision than a studio hybrid. But that said, I honestly think JL should have been delayed about a year and reworked once the BvS panic set in. By sticking to their schedule, we got this mess we're in now.

 

[GothamBat]

I agree. I just was just lazy on their part. I can only hope Aquaman and Captain Marvel (and yes I am call him that I refuse to be pushed around by Marvel and the mouse) will be better and have less interference.

It doesn't even make sense though. Remember when Flash was scared sh**less before the tunnel fight and Batman gave him the pep talk about saving people? Why didn't that alert/attarct that huge hoard of parademons like 10 feet away? Didn't think that through did you Whedon?

 

[_Superman_]

Not turning this into a Marvel thread, but I am glad we got The Avengers movie we got. It at the end of the day is my favorite CBM and most fun I ever had with a superhero movie. I wouldn't trade it for anything. Now, IM2 conversely is my least favorite MCU film, and I agree it reeks of studio interference and could easily have been better, but it was the compromise movie. Still, at the end of the day, The Avengers is amazing.

As for JL, I would like to see Zack's version, of course. I think the movie we ultimately got satisfied on no fronts, really. It felt like some weird hybrid movie and fell apart for me. I at least with Zack's movies can see he had a vision. Whether we agreed with it or not is up for debate. I'd rather have seen Zack's vision than a studio hybrid. But that said, I honestly think JL should have been delayed about a year and reworked once the BvS panic set in. By sticking to their schedule, we got this mess we're in now.

Agreed and I wasn't trying to turn it into a Marvel thread either I was just comparing and saying how they were in a some what similar situation. However they had more time to rework things than DC did.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Agreed and I wasn't trying to turn it into a Marvel thread either I was just comparing and saying how they were in a some what similar situation. However they had more time to rework things than DC did.

Agreed, and that is a key difference. Whedon came aboad on Avengers with time to craft it from Pre-Production. With JL, WB had no time to do this, let Zack make his movie, they hated it, then forced Whedon to basically do all 3 phases of production to fix an existing movie with complicated effects and had to do it in like 4 months. That is not the recipe for success.

 

[_Superman_]

It doesn't even make sense though. Remember when Flash was scared sh**less before the tunnel fight and Batman gave him the pep talk about saving people? Why didn't that alert/attarct that huge hoard of parademons like 10 feet away? Didn't think that through did you Whedon?

During that fight the alert for some reason wasn't ready and I also assumed Flash was scared after hearing the We got families and the cold reply of why does everyone keep telling me that. Hell I would've been scared as well after hearing something like that.

 

[markjoedelonge]

I don't know.....I see all these remarks like "At least with Zack's movies, he had a vision while JL had no vision". All I remember was people continuously decrying Zack's "vision", and lamenting that Zack was always in charge of the DCEU movies and that's why the DCEU was failing. So fine, WB brings in Joss Whedon, the man who gave us 2 very successful superhero team-up movies. You guys complained about not enough levity? Fine, let's have Batfleck crack jokes like it's a sitcom. Superman's too emo and mopey? Fine, let's have him smile every few seconds. Too much destruction and mayhem? Fine, let's isolate the climatic action sequence to an abandoned village and not drag it out. The movies are too long, draggy and meandering? Fine, let's cut it down to less than 2 hours.

People like to decry WB for not knowing what to do, but JL is what you get when you continuously **** on Zack Snyder. JL is a direct result of the very hyperbolic backlash to BVS.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I don't know.....I see all these remarks like "At least with Zack's movies, he had a vision while JL had no vision". All I remember was people continuously decrying Zack's "vision", and lamenting that Zack was always in charge of the DCEU movies and that's why the DCEU was failing. So fine, WB brings in Joss Whedon, the man who gave us 2 very successful superhero team-up movies. You guys complained about not enough levity? Fine, let's have Batfleck crack jokes like it's a sitcom. Superman's too emo and mopey? Fine, let's have him smile every few seconds. Too much destruction and mayhem? Fine, let's isolate the climatic action sequence to an abandoned village and not drag it out. The movies are too long, draggy and meandering? Fine, let's cut it down to less than 2 hours.

People like to decry WB for not knowing what to do, but JL is what you get when you continuously **** on Zack Snyder. JL is a direct result of the very hyperbolic backlash to BVS.

I absolutely agree, but I felt from day 1 if they were proceeding with Zack and not delaying the movie to rethink their approach, they needed to let it be his movie and not try and mimic a Marvel movie. At the end of the day, it looks like I was right, LOL! This movie pleased neither side of the spectrum. WB absolutely comes off as reactionary in its current form.

 

[_Superman_]

I don't know.....I see all these remarks like "At least with Zack's movies, he had a vision while JL had no vision". All I remember was people continuously decrying Zack's "vision", and lamenting that Zack was always in charge of the DCEU movies and that's why the DCEU was failing. So fine, WB brings in Joss Whedon, the man who gave us 2 very successful superhero team-up movies. You guys complained about not enough levity? Fine, let's have Batfleck crack jokes like it's a sitcom. Superman's too emo and mopey? Fine, let's have him smile every few seconds. Too much destruction and mayhem? Fine, let's isolate the climatic action sequence to an abandoned village and not drag it out. The movies are too long, draggy and meandering? Fine, let's cut it down to less than 2 hours.

People like to decry WB for not knowing what to do, but JL is what you get when you continuously **** on Zack Snyder. JL is a direct result of the very hyperbolic backlash to BVS.

I absolutely agree, but I felt from day 1 if they were proceeding with Zack and not delaying the movie to rethink their approach, they needed to let it be his movie and not try and mimic a Marvel movie. At the end of the day, it looks like I was right, LOL! This movie pleased neither side of the spectrum. WB absolutely comes off as reactionary in its current form.

I agree with both of you and the sad part is they brought Johns in after SvB while WW was still in pre production to help do a Page 1 rewrite to make the movie lighter and from what I gather the movie was supposed to be on the level of MOS as far as tone goes or maybe a little lighter but they were expecting Avengers/GOTG type of tone and changed directions after you have about a 90% finished movie locked. What makes me upset though is how they showed us one movie for the trailers and said that's the movie we were getting and then put out a completely different movie all together.

 

[The Shape]

Did Ciaran Hinds participate in any of the reshoots?

Yup. He certainly must have had to re-do a majority of his dialogue from the finale sequence, among others.

 

[markjoedelonge]

Yup. He certainly must have had to re-do a majority of his dialogue from the finale sequence, among others.

I see. Thanks!