Justice League: News and Speculation - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 45

[Question]

I actually really liked how Batman was like a fly just avoiding the flyswatter in the Doomsday fight. It really sold me on it being a fight of the gods and Batman being a mortal among them.

Perhaps he wears the standard bat-suit as a self-imposed challenge? He wouldn't want to get too soft so he wears the standard suit when the tactical suit isn't necessary to keep himself sharp.

 

[AnneFan]

I actually really liked how Batman was like a fly just avoiding the flyswatter in the Doomsday fight. It really sold me on it being a fight of the gods and Batman being a mortal among them.

Yes. An onlooker waiting for the right time to strike. Therefore staying alive is a victory.

 

[Forever Evil]

I actually really liked how Batman was like a fly just avoiding the flyswatter in the Doomsday fight. It really sold me on it being a fight of the gods and Batman being a mortal among them.

Perhaps he wears the standard bat-suit as a self-imposed challenge? He wouldn't want to get too soft so he wears the standard suit when the tactical suit isn't necessary to keep himself sharp.

I liked that too. Seeing him grapple and dive about was quite funny, but cool.

 

[matt47]

I just assumed that he has only just made the tactical suit after bvs.

 

[Saint]

I understand the armor argument but for me it's more fundamental... What are Batman's limits? (One word out of you Christian Bale an it's a smack across the mouth! )

It's the presentation of the character for me. Improbable wisdom is a part of the character. I get that. Genius intellect, the world's greatest detective, tactical acumen ect. I accept that but fans always go on about the appeal of Batman being that he is the mortal hero with limitations but then they also accept or want him to also be Tony Stark and Reed Richards combined or something.

Before BVS some fans on the Hype were going on about Batman making "solar drainers" to suck the solar energy out of Superman. This is a bit much for me in my conception of the character. Look... Tell me Batman is a genius and I accept that, but let's get into the reasonable (even given comic book super hero suspension of disbelief) specifics of that. Tell me that Batman is the world's best hand to hand fighter and that is fine. Tell me "He knows EVERY single form of martial arts" and that's kinda ludicrous. He can be the best fighter without knowing and mastering every system or style. He can be an expert in the fields of criminology, forensics, and be highly skilled in the various technologies that go along with that... But I can't see how that translates into Bruce also having Stark/Richards levels of knowledge of engineering and cutting edge physics that would allow him to build at will these plethora Iron Man type suits, or like day in the JUSTICE LORDS episode of JL where the Lords version of Batman is building interdimensional portals in the cave. I can accept him knowing how to service his equipment, maybe even having the expertise to modify weapon systems or the like, but building EVERYTHING from scratch? So he had time to travel the world and learn detective skills, and martial arts, and advanced engineering, and cutting edge physics and... Well you see what I mean. He's a genius but he has his realm of magisteria as it were. If you put him in a room with Wil Magnus he can't possibly be near the creator of the Metal Men's level of scientific knowledge when it comes to computer science and AI and robotics. Now this doesn't mean he's totally out of his depths when it comes to a wide array of fields. I am sure he has picked up computer science skills like encryption and hacking ect. as they are germane to his war on crime. But going toe to toe with a Lex Luthor on the subject? No. Sorry.

Batman's near Omnicience has gotten out of control. The powered suits are a symptom of this to my eyes. In interacting with other characters especially it goes overboard since it tends to be presented in a way that makes the other characters look like fools, incompetents or besides the point. It reeks of plot armor. Why do we need the protector of sector 2814 armed with the most powerful weapon in the universe when the omniscient guy with a belt and some boomerangs can solve the problem? This hurts the DC stable as a whole and I think it's done so for a long time. The issues with Silver Age Superman were no different, it's just now because of popularity those have transferred to the all knowing BatGod. He's supposed to be the vulnerable one, the mortal one, the one that (again given the limits of suspension of disbelief) has to struggle against the odds in a world of super humans. If he's Tony Stark/Reed Richards that can take out Sinestro with a boomerang... I don't know... It feels off and kinda cheap. My two cents.

I largely agree, and I say that as an adherent of the Batgod. Grant Morrison was probably the father of the prep-time Batgod meme, but the fantastic thing about his Batman stories (either in JLA or in his own run on Batman) was that Batman didn't really do anything that seemed outside of his wheelhouse--he was only ever able to defeat vastly superior foes by having the foresight and adaptability to position himself in the right place at the right time, and force the battle to be fought on his terms. When he didn't have that luxury, well... he lost.

Batman cheats, and that's what makes him great. He's not going to fight you on your terms, because that' would be suicide--and he may not beat you alone. He's recruited a team of specialists who are at the top of their fields in the world--better than him in their respective disciplines; Batman's own specialty being crime-solving--and he's smart enough to know when to use them.

If Batman can do anything and everything, and has access to any imaginable technology, then it's no longer fun or interesting when he defeats someone outside his weightclass. When I read Morrison's Batman, the best feeling was being surprised at the ways Batman would pull out the win. By contrast, if you look at the current trend (Snyder's Endgame being a great example) where Batman has a tendency to just roll out a bigger, better suit of armour (or some other Deus Ex Machina) to deal with his problems, that's not only less interesting, but less true to the character.

I think it's important that Batman be able to participate in the fight against the same foes as his superpowered contemporaries--but it's just as important that he do so with respect to his own limitations. When he beat the white Martians, it wasn't cool because he beat them with an Iron Man suit. It was cool because he beat them with gasoline and a book of matches.

God, if Justice league were to take it's cues from anywhere, I would pray it be Grant Morrison's JLA. Almost twenty years later and it's still the finest example of the League I've read.

 

[kguillou]

Grant Morrison was really ridiculous with Batman to the point where he was superhuman. I remember there was one issue, Batman RIP, I think, where Bruce was having tea with someone or something and thag person poisoned Bruce's tea. Bruce knew this and managed to SWITCH the cups when the person blinked. I repeat. Bruce switched the cups when the person BLINKED HIS EYES without noticing. I understand Bruce is a ninja and has a mastery of deception but that is plain ridiculous,

 

[AnneFan]

Morrison's Batman was the prepared man who had a contingency plan for everything. I could appreciate what he was going for. It was fun. Suspension of disbelief is required, but that can be said of all interpretations of the character, Nolan included.

 

[Iceman]

I actually really liked how Batman was like a fly just avoiding the flyswatter in the Doomsday fight. It really sold me on it being a fight of the gods and Batman being a mortal among them.

Perhaps he wears the standard bat-suit as a self-imposed challenge? He wouldn't want to get too soft so he wears the standard suit when the tactical suit isn't necessary to keep himself sharp.

It was good to see this in his first battle among serious superpowers. And that can prompt him to make himself more useful next time, either through planning, prep, research that helps other team members and exposes weaknesses of the villain, a super-suit, leadership, strategy etc.

 

[SuperAl]

The fact that it's plated and therefore heavier...

Common sense goes a long way in the game of life.

jesus, its a comic book movie. we accept a guy can fly and conceal his identity with glasses but being stealthy while wearing armor plates is nonsense? we accept a guy can develop webbing that shoots out of a tiny cyclinder on his wrist but silent armor, noooooo IMPOSSIBLE!

 

[matt47]

jesus, its a comic book movie. we accept a guy can fly and conceal his identity with glasses but being stealthy while wearing armor plates is nonsense? we accept a guy can develop webbing that shoots out of a tiny cyclinder on his wrist but silent armor, noooooo IMPOSSIBLE!

It's all about what makes sense in the universe. We accept a guy can fly because he is an alien. But a human using earth materials, that has to make sense. If he were using some alien material to create the suit then it would be acceptable.

 

[SuperAl]

It's all about what makes sense in the universe. We accept a guy can fly because he is an alien. But a human using earth materials, that has to make sense. If he were using some alien material to create the suit then it would be acceptable.

not really, at the end of the day its a comic book movie. if you try to explain everything you'll just run out of time to explain the stuff that matters. i dont want this movie to devote 15mins to batman explaining how he managed to develop "silent armor" whether it was from earth materials or alien just because a few fans complain about every minor detail. And just because its materials from earth doesnt mean anything, people are constantly developing stronger more flexible materials every day. Im willing to accept that hes managed to put this thing together and it just works.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

jesus, its a comic book movie. we accept a guy can fly and conceal his identity with glasses but being stealthy while wearing armor plates is nonsense? we accept a guy can develop webbing that shoots out of a tiny cyclinder on his wrist but silent armor, noooooo IMPOSSIBLE!

The Clark Kent thing has been debunked so many times.

The only people that could see through the disguise are people in his day to day.

Cavill was in the middle of Manhattan with a Superman shirt on in broad day and nobody recognized him.

CNN did a report about how something as simple as glasses can circumvent facial recognition.

 

[Boy Scout]

jesus, its a comic book movie. we accept a guy can fly and conceal his identity with glasses but being stealthy while wearing armor plates is nonsense? we accept a guy can develop webbing that shoots out of a tiny cyclinder on his wrist but silent armor, noooooo IMPOSSIBLE!

That's a fallacy. Even in science ficition, normal stuff should work normally. The sky shouldn't be pink just because Superman can make the Great Wall crumble with a fart.

There's suspension of disbelief/verisimilitude, and then there's straight up fantasy/ridiculousness.

 

[morningmimosa]

Furthermore, there'd be the question why Batman wouldn't wear armored suits exclusively if there's no downside to them.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Here's a tweet...

https://twitter.com/Roy_mpsn/status/777848293737000960

 

[idiot09]

The great thing about Justice League is how comicbook-y it would be. What I mean by this is the story of BvS was very much grounded in reality(the first 1.5 hrs was basically a political thriller).Even though it had many comicbook elements and went full on in some aspects, it wasnt 100% (since the story didnt demand it). However JL is going to be absolutely amazing in that regard. You will have extra-dimensional beings, Themiscera, Atlantis, parademons, speedforce, motherboxes, resurrection etc all in there. As Zack said it its going to be very "larger than life".

 

[Iceman]

The great thing about Justice League is how comicbook-y it would be. What I mean by this is the story of BvS was very much grounded in reality(the first 1.5 hrs was basically a political thriller).Even though it had many comicbook elements and went full on in some aspects, it was 100% (since the story didnt demand it). However JL is going to be absolutely amazing in that regard. You will have extra-dimensional beings, Themiscera, Atlantis, parademons, speedforce, motherboxes, resurrection etc all in there. As Zack said it its going to be very "larger than life".

Definitely sounds more my thing than an idiotic battle between 2 of my biggest fictional heroes.

 

[idiot09]

Definitely sounds more my thing than an idiotic battle between 2 of my biggest fictional heroes.

I didnt find it idiotic, but then again look at my username.

 

[Iceman]

I didnt find it idiotic, but then again look at my username.

I don't mean the execution of the film itself, just the concept of wasting a whole film on a Vs between 2 of my favourite heroes Vs the epic JL possibilities you described above. Just saying that is much more my kind of thing.

 

[JOE]

Furthermore, there'd be the question why Batman wouldn't wear armored suits exclusively if there's no downside to them.

Wasn't his suit in BvS technically "armored" considering it was bulletproof?

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Wasn't his suit in BvS technically "armored" considering it was bulletproof?

The cowl was. The armor had a kevlar weave going on but it wasn't exactly "knife proof" meaning not heavy. There are liquids and gels that can stop bullets.

The new suit is fitted with plates everywhere.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Eh, CBM science says Tony Stark can get blasted in the chest with Thor's hammer while wearing a suit of armor and not die. CBM science says Batman can have lightweight armor.

 

[idiot09]

I don't mean the execution of the film itself, just the concept of wasting a whole film on a Vs between 2 of my favourite heroes Vs the epic JL possibilities you described above. Just saying that is much more my kind of thing.

Ah ofcourse. A celebration of your heroes and uniting them is always more enjoyable than drawing them into conflict. To each is own, but I find both concepts very interesting in their own way.

 

[Micromind]

jesus, its a comic book movie. we accept a guy can fly and conceal his identity with glasses but being stealthy while wearing armor plates is nonsense? we accept a guy can develop webbing that shoots out of a tiny cyclinder on his wrist but silent armor, noooooo IMPOSSIBLE!

For a grounded character like Batman, he has to follow the rules of the Universe inside which he exists, for instance Batman cannot eat tons of food in one day or drink gallons of water in one gulp.

 

[Da-Scribe]

For a grounded character like Batman, he has to follow the rules of the Universe inside which he exists, for instance Batman cannot eat tons of food in one day or drink gallons of water in one gulp.

But what are the rules exactly? Because Batman doesn't exist in an exact replica of our world. If he did, then he wouldn't exist at all. So, there's obvious levels of leniency and flexibility.

My point is, it's a heightened reality, so not every rule has to apply. It's just in how it's all executed and how it works in tandem with other elements of the story.