The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

[Mr.M]

I hate being such a pessimist, but honestly I don't know that this bodes well with Fox making another F4 movie, or Marvel buying the rights back. It is very possible that both studios just don't see this franchise as a money maker.

I don't see that at all. The more time you wait, the better (so long as the genre is still going strong). The characters are very popular and can be ressurected in the right circumstances. It's important not to rush a reboot to meet a deadline, because that will definitely kill the franchise for the forseeable future.

Marvel wants SS and Galactus. We know this. Should they get the rights back, these are the characters they are going to be focusing on. But they will find a way to incorporate the FF into the continuity if the opportunity presents itself.

I think the best move for Fox is to sell the rights before they revert, and demand some big upfront payment plus backend box office commission. While they have little leverage, they have an opportunity to kill the franchise with a half-hearted reboot, and Disney can't allow that to happen. A deal is going to have to be negotiated and Feige has to cave in a little. Otherwise, after Avengers, the MCU will be washed up until Spidey or FF come back.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

While I'm sure they want to present a very cool front, I'm also sure that Marvel really, really, really wants to get the property back (Though probably more for Doom, Galactus and SS than the FF themselves).

If Fox really, really, really wants to make an FF film, Marvel may be stuck and they'll just have to move forward without it, but I wouldn't be surprised if the reason FF dropped off the radar is that Marvel said (as I did) "S*** it looks like Fox is serious about doing this." They may have swerved in the high-stakes game of chicken at that point and picked up the phone. If so, negotiations could be going on right now behind the scenes.

If Marvel does end up paying for it, it could end up being a brilliant move by Fox, and we (and Marvel) may never know if they were really serious about making a film or just using it as leverage for negotiations all along.

 

[Mr. Dent]

That would be one of the great things about Marvel getting FF. Instead of trying to launch Black panther on his own, he could be introduced in an FF film and then, if he clicks with audiences, get a film of his own.

They could also bring the inhumans in with an FF film and maybe spin them off if it works. And of course the Surfer etc.

Marvel has options without the FF, but if they can get them, they can begin thinking about a true Marvel Universe that comes close to Matching the one Fans grew up with. Without FF, Doom, Galactus, Surfer etc. the Marvel Universe is really the Marvel Universe in name only.

Inhumans will probably get a movie before FF does (assuming Fox doesn't meet their deadline of course).

I don't think Feige is into "testing waters in other movies" with characters. They either stand on their own or they don't. Hulk is a special situation.

 

[Zarex]

While I'm sure they want to present a very cool front, I'm also sure that Marvel really, really, really wants to get the property back (Though probably more for Doom, Galactus and SS than the FF themselves).

If Fox really, really, really wants to make an FF film, Marvel may be stuck and they'll just have to move forward without it, but I wouldn't be surprised if the reason FF dropped off the radar is that Marvel said (as I did) "S*** it looks like Fox is serious about doing this." They may have swerved in the high-stakes game of chicken at that point and picked up the phone. If so, negotiations could be going on right now behind the scenes.

If Marvel does end up paying for it, it could end up being a brilliant move by Fox, and we (and Marvel) may never know if they were really serious about making a film or just using it as leverage for negotiations all along.

It would make for an interesting negotiation. The FF holds tremendous value to Marvel both in the original team and related characters, not including the psychic benefits from getting back the First Family. And I strongly believe that FOX would much rather drop $100 million or so on an X-Force spinoff than double that amount into a risky FF reboot. But they don't want to watch Marvel launch another billion dollar franchise with rights they gave up, and they have the threat of taking the team out of commission until the 2020s unless Marvel meets their price.

I think a deal similar to what Sony and Marvel worked out for Spider-man joint venture would work in this case. Marvel pays a quarter of a billion or so to FOX along with their participation % of the X-Men film franchise. In return they receive the FF film rights and FOX's participation % in X-Men movie tie-in merchandise. This should strengthen both franchises and potentially may lead to future collaboration. And at next year's comic-con, Feige can put up "Future Films" on the screen in the classic font from the FF's first 118 covers.

 

[Mr.M]

Disney has to look at this an another Marvel/Star Wars acquisition. You cannot make up the difference over what you invested after the box office of one film, or even a trilogy of films. Star Wars and Marvel won't pay off for Disney for another 15 years, considering how much money the put into it. 4 billion and change for each, plus the money to produce the movies, would amount to almost 10 billion for both properties/trilogies. Avengers and Star Wars 7-9 combined can not produce 10 billion in a span of a few years even when you factor in all other related profits ancillary to film/TV. Will take a decade at least.

So if I am Fox, I think a fair asking price is 500 million at the very least, just for rights to produce FF films. I'd look for a billion though, and settle around 750 unless I were desperate. That would include everything FF sold to Disney. That would mean Fox no longer receives backend profits from anything FF related thereafter. As far as merchandising, yes I can give Disney some X-Men merchandising rights. After all, they produce tons of X-Men related animated features, plus video games/apps and the works. In fact, I would throw in exclusive X-Men merchandising rights, but the film mediums would stay separate indefinitely, as would television. That way, Disney cannot neglect marketing since they'd still be trying to sell toys, video games, shirts, comics, and other memorabilia. You'd want to promote X-Men movies that potentially tie in with merchandised retail items on store shelves, so maybe Disney would even chip in promoting the X-Men universe on film, albeit indirectly.

Fox needs to completely lock up X-Men for another 15-20 years because I think that is the only viable money maker they have, besides another Cameron franchise.

 

[Mr. Dent]

Disney/Marvel isn't buying back any rights. They've already said they're not. Why would you guys even want them to negotiate with Fox when it looks very likely Fox will eff up anyway?

 

[Mr.M]

Feige has also said they'd recast RDJ and now Whedon recently came out and said he was never going to do an A2 without the intention of RDJ as Stark. Feige is basically full of **** and will do and say whatever it takes to maintain the upperhand from a business/negotiation standpoint. It's the reason he has that job. In reality, its a game of chicken, plain and simple. If Feige doesn't budge, it is still likely Fox will put out a piss poor reboot and hundred of millions will go down the drain, much within Fox's end, but mostly on the potential the property had within the MCU.

 

[Zarex]

So if I am Fox, I think a fair asking price is 500 million at the very least, just for rights to produce FF films. I'd look for a billion though, and settle around 750 unless I were desperate. That would include everything FF sold to Disney. That would mean Fox no longer receives backend profits from anything FF related thereafter. As far as merchandising, yes I can give Disney some X-Men merchandising rights. After all, they produce tons of X-Men related animated features, plus video games/apps and the works. In fact, I would throw in exclusive X-Men merchandising rights, but the film mediums would stay separate indefinitely, as would television. That way, Disney cannot neglect marketing since they'd still be trying to sell toys, video games, shirts, comics, and other memorabilia. You'd want to promote X-Men movies that potentially tie in with merchandised retail items on store shelves, so maybe Disney would even chip in promoting the X-Men universe on film, albeit indirectly.

Fox needs to completely lock up X-Men for another 15-20 years because I think that is the only viable money maker they have, besides another Cameron franchise.

FOX certainly would jump at the chance to make 3/4 billion dollars from rights that have little value to the company, but I can't see Disney/Marvel making that rich an offer. It could take two decades or more for Marvel to recoup that large of an investment from FF films. The company paid $278 million for Sony's 50% share of the Spider-man joint venture, and that throws off hundreds of millions of dollars in licensing fees every year to the company. An offer in that range would be difficult to justify and would likely cause a dip in the stock price, but Disney/Marvel conceivably could make it in order to have the First Family back home.

 

[Mr. Dent]

Feige has also said they'd recast RDJ and now Whedon recently came out and said he was never going to do an A2 without the intention of RDJ as Stark. Feige is basically full of **** and will do and say whatever it takes to maintain the upperhand from a business/negotiation standpoint. It's the reason he has that job. In reality, its a game of chicken, plain and simple. If Feige doesn't budge, it is still likely Fox will put out a piss poor reboot and hundred of millions will go down the drain, much within Fox's end, but mostly on the potential the property had within the MCU.

Feige never said they'd recast RDJ for A2. You're taking what he said completely out of context. He said when the time came that RDJ didn't want to or couldn't do the role anymore, they wouldn't reboot anything and they'd recast him. So no, Feige is not full of ****. If anything he's one of the most reputable figures in the business.

 

[Mr.M]

Feige never said they'd recast RDJ for A2. You're taking what he said completely out of context. He said when the time came that RDJ didn't want to or couldn't do the role anymore, they wouldn't reboot anything and they'd recast him. So no, Feige is not full of ****. If anything he's one of the most reputable figures in the business.

Based on the reports that came out following the Avengers re-negotiations, I'm gonna hold some reservations on that statement.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Marvel would NEVER botch a FF film the way Fox has. They've proven their love and respect for these characters (and the fans) over the course of 6 films, and it's obvious that they will continue to do so.

If you honestly feel that Fox could do as good a job (or better) than Marvel Studios with ANY of Marvel's properties, let alone just the FF, then you're letting your impatience for a new FF film cloud your judgement...

Marvel really screwed up with Iron Man 2 & 3. The Incredible Hulk was nothing special. Thor and Captain America: The First Avenger were both mediocre IMO, and only existed so that those characters could be introduced for the Avengers movie.

Believe it or not, Marvel Studios is not perfect and is flawed. HOWEVER, I do believe that they would do a much better job than FOX, hands down.

 

[Picard Sisko]

I do believe this Fantastic Four movie WILL happen. They have a locked release date, are currently doing casting calls, and it was reported in June that they hired a writer to do a script polish on their first draft. Whether or not the film will be a success is a totally different story, but I think that will determine where the Fantastic Four will reside in the future: at Fox, or at Marvel. If the movie makes a good profit, Fox will make more sequels and incorporate it into its X-Men universe as initially planned. If it fails, they will probably let the rights revert back to Marvel.

 

[Zarex]

I do believe this Fantastic Four movie WILL happen. They have a locked release date, are currently doing casting calls, and it was reported in June that they hired a writer to do a script polish on their first draft. Whether or not the film will be a success is a totally different story, but I think that will determine where the Fantastic Four will reside in the future: at Fox, or at Marvel. If the movie makes a good profit, Fox will make more sequels and incorporate it into its X-Men universe as initially planned. If it fails, they will probably let the rights revert back to Marvel.

It's too soon to call. A locked release date doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot, and it appears that a bare minimum of funding has been put into the production. Add to that the reboot risk, the drop off in the sequel of the original duology, the high budget for a proper film treatment, the poor release date, Singer's lack of enthusiasm for a merger of the X-Men and FF universes, FOX's desire to spin off lower cost X franchises and the question of whether it is even viable under the two separate rights agreements to merge them together, and I would say reasons to call off the production are significantly stronger than those to make it.

 

[Picard Sisko]

If the production doesn't get moving by 2014, then the movie isn't happening.

 

[Mr. Dent]

Based on the reports that came out following the Avengers re-negotiations, I'm gonna hold some reservations on that statement.

You mean the "reports" that were basically sensationalist articles that clearly over exaggerated the NORMAL NATURE of Hollywood negotiations and barely ever mentioned Feige?

 

[spideyboy_1111]

actually from what i understand RDJ's negotiations weren't about HIM getting paid more, but HIS AVENGERS TEAM MATES. he thought they should deserve more, which is what his negotiations were about. which makes him pretty awesome in my book

that being said... lets also get real... none of them need that much money anyway... hopefully most take that money and give it back to charity

 

[KDM1986]

If the production doesn't get moving by 2014, then the movie isn't happening.

We can only hope. I want the FF family back at marvel.

 

[Mr.M]

You mean the "reports" that were basically sensationalist articles that clearly over exaggerated the NORMAL NATURE of Hollywood negotiations and barely ever mentioned Feige?

So you know the "normal nature" of these talks? Are you a rep in the middle of these negotiations that knows the ins and outs of the business? If not, I don't think it's fair to say how "normal" these talks are. All we can go by is what was reported in the trades. When you have quotes like, "Tired of Feige telling me Marvel is reinventing the movie business, he is reinventing business," that to me sounds like he is a grade-A *****e. Whether it's true or not, there has been a perpetual pattern of low balling actors. I'm not taking anything away from Feige, he is great at what he does from a business standpoint, but it does sound like he can be a real ***hole, or perhaps Perlmutter is puppeting him behind the scenes.

 

[kaijunexus]

Well...crap.

 

[Doc Ock]

Well...crap.

NononononononNO!

 

[fantastic fifth]

Well...crap.

I'm SO pissed right now.

 

[Mr. Dent]

Sigh.

 

[Mr. Dent]

Just remembered the Daily Superhero reported this a month ago, but said it was delays and also mentioned the script hadn't been finalized. Basically, The Wrap is reporting the same thing Daily Superhero did last month but saying Fox moved the production only for "incentive purposes" and not just delays.

 

[Mr.M]

Yeah it's kind of sorta old news. But if pre-production is in the fall, you start filming this by next year and it should be more than enough time to get it out by March 2015. Plenty of time to cast between now and then.

And yes, I am very dissappointed if this goes through, mostly at Disney not being proactive enough to get the rights back. The only MCU movie I am planning to watch in theatres is Avengers: AoU. Don't really care about these other movies too much, and thought they really could have had something with FF back under the umbrella.

 

[Zarex]

I'm very curious as to what the budget is for this film. Rumors have GOTG and DOFT budgeted at both over $200 million - will FOX put the kind of money into the film essential to showing the First Family's powers and environments onscreen properly?

I'm also interested to see what Disney/Marvel's response will be. You can throw out any potential for tie-in merchandise. If I were Iger I would fast track a 3-D version of the Incredibles to open one week prior to the Trank film.