The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

[kaijunexus]

I think a lot of you are just biased towards the MCU. Be more open minded. We know little to nothing about this movie!

I am absolutely biased towards the MCU, just as many other fans are. We're biased towards it because it's an amazing undertaking, because it's the official cinematic home for Marvel characters and properties, and because we want a cinematic universe as diverse and unified as the comic universe it is based on.

As far as the potential quality of a Fox-produced Fantastic Four film...it could very well be absolutely awesome. I am not disputing the possibility that Fox could make an incredible FF film...I don't think any of us are.

If you think that's what this is about, then you're entirely missing the point.

We don't just want a great Fantastic Four film...or a great Iron Man film...or a great Thor film...or even a great Avengers film...

We want a great MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE. Great films for these individual characters are a part of that. But so are interactions and cross-overs between those characters.

We don't just want the Fantastic Four to exist in a great movie. We want them to exist in a great movie IN A GREAT UNIVERSE!

 

[Paradox1]

I love the news, I think Josh Trank is a great director and the reviews I've heard of Fruitville Station make Michael B. Jordan an extremely hot commodity. Though it being amidst controversy among fans.

An X-Men crossover makes it interesting in the regard that FF could be bipartisan in their views against the mutants prior to getting powers, and even having a mutant baby. The crossover after Sue giving birth to a mutant baby then would all the sense in the world. Unlike most mutants who could have the luxury of hiding Franklin being a mutant in a celebrity family i could imagine working story wise. In todays 24hr media coverage Franklin's story could reflect for instance the royal baby.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I think a lot of you are just biased towards the MCU. Be more open minded.

Lessee, a studio who values their properties and has established an interesting shared universe vs one who squirts crappy quickie adaptations out the backdoor just to hold onto licensing rights. Yeah, I guess I am a bit biased.

We know little to nothing about this movie!

I know I don't want it to happen.

 

[Zarex]

I think a lot of you are just biased towards the MCU. Be more open minded. We know little to nothing about this movie!

I will admit to an MCU bias - a connected Marvel movie and TV universe is beyond my wildest childhood dreams I had when leafing through my comic books. But while I am totally fine with Spider-man and the X-Men off in their own cinematic worlds, the idea of an FF disconnected from the Hulk, the Inhumans, the Sub-Mariner, the Black Panther and the Avengers is quite frankly, sad. I want the MCU to grow and thrive, and the FF are such a vital part of the 616 Universe that it would feel empty to have them missing.

But here's the thing - the inclusion of the FF in the X-Men universe (if its even allowed under the terms of the two original contracts) weakens that cinematic universe as well. Singer and company have created a world in which pretty much everything is as it should be, but with the existence of a mutant gene. Adding four colorful space explorers and Galactus is completely inconsistent with the first six, and presumably the 7th X-Men film as well. FOX has absolutely no need for these characters, the relationship between the teams is quite weak, and the studio would be much better off spinning off the existing X franchises in less costly sequels than to mashing together an ill-fitting space family.

But these rights have value to Marvel, so FOX is either going to try extort funds from the Mouse or put out a cheapie version of the FF and keep the rights locked up until the 2020s. The proposed FF reboot should be very upsetting to fans of both the MCU and FOX's X-Men films.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

yeah, I think there's enough proof to see that FOX really doesn't know how to handle the F4... I'd much rather Marvel get back the rights because if anyone knows how to handle there own characters, it's them. Versus running the risk of FOX making another flop and us having to wait even LONGER for a good F4 film

 

[Green Goblin]

I'd rather FOX give F4 back to Marvel and FOX expand the X-Verse! I will be open minded about the reboot though.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I think a lot of you are just biased towards the MCU. Be more open minded. We know little to nothing about this movie!

I'm willing to stay open minded, but Fox has no one but themselves to blame for how many of us feel.

If it becomes clear that Fox is moving forward, I'll put my effort into hoping they can pull it off. But I would feel much more confident that Marvel was likely to pull it off than I can feel with Fox.

 

[kaijunexus]

I'd also like to point out that this is the 3rd most popular thread in this subforum.

You don't see nearly that kind of support for reverting rights back to Marvel in the Spider-Man or X-Men forums.

Fans want the FF, Galactus, Silver Surfer, Doom, etc. back at Marvel where they belong.

 

[Green Goblin]

I'd also like to point out that this is the 3rd most popular thread in this subforum.

You don't see nearly that kind of support for reverting rights back to Marvel in the Spider-Man or X-Men forums.

Fans want the FF, Galactus, Silver Surfer, Doom, etc. back at Marvel where they belong.

My thoughts exactly. X-Men are big enough on their own and Spidey is very solo and only really connects to DD. I won't cry because Stark Industries isn't mentioned in TASM2 or DOFP

 

[Mr.M]

I will admit to an MCU bias - a connected Marvel movie and TV universe is beyond my wildest childhood dreams I had when leafing through my comic books. But while I am totally fine with Spider-man and the X-Men off in their own cinematic worlds, the idea of an FF disconnected from the Hulk, the Inhumans, the Sub-Mariner, the Black Panther and the Avengers is quite frankly, sad. I want the MCU to grow and thrive, and the FF are such a vital part of the 616 Universe that it would feel empty to have them missing.

But here's the thing - the inclusion of the FF in the X-Men universe (if its even allowed under the terms of the two original contracts) weakens that cinematic universe as well. Singer and company have created a world in which pretty much everything is as it should be, but with the existence of a mutant gene. Adding four colorful space explorers and Galactus is completely inconsistent with the first six, and presumably the 7th X-Men film as well. FOX has absolutely no need for these characters, the relationship between the teams is quite weak, and the studio would be much better off spinning off the existing X franchises in less costly sequels than to mashing together an ill-fitting space family.

But these rights have value to Marvel, so FOX is either going to try extort funds from the Mouse or put out a cheapie version of the FF and keep the rights locked up until the 2020s. The proposed FF reboot should be very upsetting to fans of both the MCU and FOX's X-Men films.

I don't think Marvel sees it that way. They are arrogant enough to believe they can work with what they have, without the likes of Galactus, Doom, Surfer, and the FF. Given the recent track record, it's hard to go against them, but that's the attitude they have. They are content getting that monthly licensing fee from Fox. If it pays the gas money, why remove that added income for a few more colorful characters? I truly believe the higher ups at Marvel/Disney have this attitude, and they are not going to bend to Fox's extortions. You don't negotiate with terrorists, and based on what Fox has done with some of the Marvel properties in the past, that analogy is probably apt (not trying to be super insensitive there). They will continue to make laughable offers to one another that I could see a half-hearted reboot from Fox just to make a few million in profits and potentially kill the franchise.

 

[Destructus86]

I'd honestly rather see the film completely tank and then Fox will sell the rights just to make the money.

 

[Zarex]

I'd also like to point out that this is the 3rd most popular thread in this subforum.

You don't see nearly that kind of support for reverting rights back to Marvel in the Spider-Man or X-Men forums.

Fans want the FF, Galactus, Silver Surfer, Doom, etc. back at Marvel where they belong.

And it's not just in this forum. Any FF reboot article posted online is followed by a string of "give the rights back" posts. FOX execs can't be so foolish that they'd spend over $150 million when a substantial % of the potential audience hopes the film never gets made. Or at least I hope they aren't.

 

[Mr.M]

Well, look at something like GR, the first film being marginally profitable if that. They put out a quasi-sequel/reboot and it was just as big a t*** as the first installment. Sony more than likely lost money and sold the rights shortly after. Pretty sure Fox lost money on the DD movies at least from a box office standpoint, but they still held onto the rights as opposed to selling them outright. However, the FF movies were somewhat profitable and carry a ton of value. Fox will be looking for a massive pay day. It's going to come down to a reasonable number. What Fox thinks they can make in this current landscape, vs what they think they can get from Mickey. If they are realistic, they can't expect more than 500 million WW from a FF reboot. That's still a great number, but realistically, who knows if they can get even that? Hulk reboot failed. MoS was marginal relative to expectations. It's really risky, especially since they'd want it to be a franchise and not a one-off. That requires long term investment. I think they would settle at a few hundred million for the selling the rights outright, but I don't see Marvel going that high. Marvel paid Sony 278 million for merchandising rights for Spidey according to a previous post? How much would Spidey movie rights go for relative to that? I'd say at least double that. So I am thinking FF has got to be worth some serious cash that Disney is simply not going to pay up front.

 

[Wontkins]

You shouldn't count the 1994 film because nobody, except some fans, have seen it, let alone know it actually exists.

Even if the reboot fails, people would still watch a FF movie years later if it was now part of the MCU.

The circumstances around the 1994 film are very similar to the circumstances around this one. They were about the lose the rights, so they threw it together as fast and cheaply as they could. It looks like history is going to repeat itself.

Plus, anyone who knows anything about Fantastic Four knows about that movie.
There was even a whole subplot on it in the last season of Arrested Development.

Either way I feel the only people who are defending Fox are people who want to see a new Fantastic Four movie right NOW rather than wait a few more years for a good one. Quality > Quantity.

Its just unacceptable, we already have people complaining about superhero movies saturating the market, the more stinkers released, the more people get sick of the genre. Its common sense, if you want superhero films to remain popular, they need to space each other out and deliver quality each time.

 

[Wontkins]

The LAST thing I want to see is this film tank. Can you imagine how people will react if Marvel got the rights back and 2 years from now they had another one coming out? You'd get all these "HURRR DURRR can't hollywood think of anything!?!?!? I am boycotting this movie!!11!! reboots suck1!!1!!" You've got people like that for THIS movie.

 

[Shikamaru]

I would love to see the FF in the MCU and for the rights to go back. However, the FF reboot not being in the MCU is the least of the problems the reboot looks like will have. Shared universes are great but the quality of the films themselves should come first.

I'm noticing a lot of MCU fanboyism on these boards. I don't like Fox either and I wish the rights went back, as I already stated, but Marvel should not be put on a pedestal as if they can do no wrong. I love what Marvel has done with the MCU but they are by no means perfect. They have screwed up in the past. Some examples include:

1) Turning most of their Phase One solo movies into Avengers promos as opposed to letting them stand on their own.
2) Radically altering Thor's backstory, origin, supporting cast, and getting rid of Donald Blake.
3) Watering down dark themes revolving around characters like the Red Skull just to make the film more family friendly.
4) Ruining the Mandarin and falsely marketing to the fans. Even Fox has yet to play with fans' emotions in the same way IM3 did.
5) Ignoring the importance of Hank Pym on the Avengers and robbing him of his most interesting elements by not only bringing him in very late in the game (if at all) but also by not having him create Ultron.

Like I said, I still really like the MCU and what Marvel did. But they are by no means perfect and whenever they occassionally screw up, everyone turns a blind eye simply because they're Marvel. If Fox did any of the things I just listed above, everybody would have been furious.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

i think all of those but Hank Pym and Mandarin actually ended up working in there favor imo...

 

[kaijunexus]

I would love to see the FF in the MCU and for the rights to go back. However, the FF reboot not being in the MCU is the least of the problems the reboot looks like will have. Shared universes are great but the quality of the films themselves should come first.

I agree to a point. The individuals films matter most. That's true.

However, in the MCU, they serve a greater purpose than themselves. Every film contributes to the greater whole...and therefore the quality of the shared universe.

You see, you're still looking at the MCU films the way you would any other studio's superhero movies. But the fact is, they operate in a fundamentally different way. These are singular films, but they are ALSO pieces of a greater and growing puzzle that can be judged on its own merit.

I'm noticing a lot of MCU fanboyism on these boards. I don't like Fox either and I wish the rights went back, as I already stated, but Marvel should not be put on a pedestal as if they can do no wrong. I love what Marvel has done with the MCU but they are by no means perfect. They have screwed up in the past. Some examples include:

1) Turning most of their Phase One solo movies into Avengers promos as opposed to letting them stand on their own.
2) Radically altering Thor's backstory, origin, supporting cast, and getting rid of Donald Blake.
3) Watering down dark themes revolving around characters like the Red Skull just to make the film more family friendly.
4) Ruining the Mandarin and falsely marketing to the fans. Even Fox has yet to play with fans' emotions in the same way IM3 did.
5) Ignoring the importance of Hank Pym on the Avengers and robbing him of his most interesting elements by not only bringing him in very late in the game (if at all) but also by not having him create Ultron.

Like I said, I still really like the MCU and what Marvel did. But they are by no means perfect and whenever they occassionally screw up, everyone turns a blind eye simply because they're Marvel. If Fox did any of the things I just listed above, everybody would have been furious.

OR...everything you just listed is just your personal opinion. (most of them are minority opinions too...who really wanted Donald Blake?)

The fact is, despite whatever gripes fanboys may have with a few of Marvel's decisions, their movies have been overwhelmingly profitable and praised by most critics and the general public alike.

Whatever it may be you think they're doing wrong...they're definitely doing something right.

 

[Green Goblin]

I'm pretty sure if FOX pulled a Mandarin this board would consider FOX in a matter similar to the Nazis... (a little exaggeration but FOX gets some crap)

 

[Shikamaru]

I agree to a point. The individuals films matter most. That's true.

However, in the MCU, they serve a greater purpose than themselves. Every film contributes to the greater whole...and therefore the quality of the shared universe.

You see, you're still looking at the MCU films the way you would any other studio's superhero movies. But the fact is, they operate in a fundamentally different way. These are singular films, but they are ALSO pieces of a greater and growing puzzle that can be judged on its own merit.

Many other films have set up things for future films without having the film at hand be robbed of its stand-alone identity. Take Star Wars for example. Each film in the original trilogy stands on its own as a good movie while still being one piece of something bigger and contributing to the greater whole.

Marvel needs to find a good balance between having great individual films that contribute to the shared universe without taking away from the films at hand. Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk had that balance there but the rest of the Phase One solo films did not.

OR...everything you just listed is just your personal opinion. (most of them are minority opinions too...who really wanted Donald Blake?)

The fact is, despite whatever gripes fanboys may have with a few of Marvel's decisions, their movies have been overwhelmingly profitable and praised by most critics and the general public alike.

Whatever it may be you think they're doing wrong...they're definitely doing something right.

While it is true that Marvel has yet to make a bad movie, only Iron Man and The Avengers were the huge critical successes that critics and the GA loved to no end. The rest of Marvel films, though they were generally liked by most people (including me), were by no means loved; just enjoyed. None of the problems I listed necessarily ruined these films (except maybe for the fourth one) but they did limit these films in potential. Also, only the fans are able to notice when something was limited from its full potential due to us being the only ones knowing the full potential in the first place.

Also, are you really ok with the Red Skull being watered down simply for the sake of making him appeal to kids more?

 

[MakeMinesMarvel]

I want to see FF/X-Men cross over. So I hope F4 stays with FOX..

 

[kaijunexus]

Many other films have set up things for future films without having the film at hand be robbed of its stand-alone identity. Take Star Wars for example. Each film in the original trilogy stands on its own as a good movie while still being one piece of something bigger and contributing to the greater whole.

That's a terrible example.

The original Star Wars trilogy was conceived as a series of sequels one at a time. The MCU was conceived as a cohesive universe made up of a combination of franchises. They are about as different as can be.

Marvel needs to find a good balance between having great individual films that contribute to the shared universe without taking away from the films at hand. Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk had that balance there but the rest of the Phase One solo films did not.

Like most of your arguments so far, this is highly debatable.

And frankly, what exactly do you expect from films that exist in a greater universe among each other? Are you disappointed at the lack of focus on Spider-Man when Johnny Storm or Dr. Strange make an appearance in his comic? I mean, characters come in and out of other character's title comics all the time. Just because you aren't used to it in superhero movies before the MCU came around doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do...

While it is true that Marvel has yet to make a bad movie, only Iron Man and The Avengers were the huge critical successes that critics and the GA loved to no end. The rest of Marvel films, though they were generally liked by most people (including me), were by no means loved; just enjoyed. None of the problems I listed necessarily ruined these films (except maybe for the fourth one) but they did limit these films in potential. Also, only the fans are able to notice when something was limited from its full potential due to us being the only ones knowing the full potential in the first place.

Again, it sounds like your representing your personal opinions as the general public and fan's opinions.

And I don't think you can really say that the public didn't love Iron Man 3 when they spent over a billion dollars to see it...

Also, are you really ok with the Red Skull being watered down simply for the sake of making him appeal to kids more?

How exactly was the Red Skull watered down?

When was his motivation in the comics EVER more than world domination or destruction in some capacity? Hell, they had the guy kill people (even his own men) in cold blood in that film.

Granted, Red Skull could have benefited from a little more screen time and character development or motivation...but what did you expect? Did you want him to be just blowing people's heads off left and right?

 

[Green Goblin]

The only MCU film that felt like it was just setting up TA was Iron Man 2...

 

[Zarex]

I want to see FF/X-Men cross over. So I hope F4 stays with FOX..

Which FF/X-Men crossover story from the comics would you like to see onscreen?

 

[ares834]

Many other films have set up things for future films without having the film at hand be robbed of its stand-alone identity. Take Star Wars for example. Each film in the original trilogy stands on its own as a good movie while still being one piece of something bigger and contributing to the greater whole.

Marvel needs to find a good balance between having great individual films that contribute to the shared universe without taking away from the films at hand. Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk had that balance there but the rest of the Phase One solo films did not.

Really? I didn't get that at all. I feel that both Thor and Capt were their own distinct movies. The only one that didn't get the balance right was IM2 IMO.

I'm pretty sure if FOX pulled a Mandarin this board would consider FOX in a matter similar to the Nazis... (a little exaggeration but FOX gets some crap)

Oh, for sure. But Marvel was attacked by many fans for it. Anyway, the reason why fans are more lenient with Marvel then Fox is because most of their movies have been good. Fox, meanwhile, just keeps on reeling out crap.