The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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The circumstances around the 1994 film are very similar to the circumstances around this one. They were about the lose the rights, so they threw it together as fast and cheaply as they could. It looks like history is going to repeat itself.

Plus, anyone who knows anything about Fantastic Four knows about that movie.
There was even a whole subplot on it in the last season of Arrested Development.

Fans of the FF are a real minority, and not even all of them know about the 1994 film. Besides, the target audience for the film, the GA, definitely does not know about it. Look at the "Bring the 1994 Fantastic Four movie to DVD" petition on facebook. It has about 400 likes, that's all.
 
Really? I didn't get that at all. I feel that both Thor and Capt were their own distinct movies. The only one that didn't get the balance right was IM2 IMO.



Oh, for sure. But Marvel was attacked by many fans for it. Anyway, the reason why fans are more lenient with Marvel then Fox is because most of their movies have been good. Fox, meanwhile, just keeps on reeling out crap.

X1,X2 and first class have a higher user RT score than all MCU films bar TA and IM1. Though you are right that FOX has made stinkers like X3 and Origins... Can't be bothered to see their RT score but it's probably 50's at best...
 
X1,X2 and first class have a higher user RT score than all MCU films bar TA and IM1. Though you are right that FOX has made stinkers like X3 and Origins... Can't be bothered to see their RT score but it's probably 50's at best...

You forgot to mention DD, Elektra, and Fantastic Four 1 & 2.
 
Fans of the FF are a real minority, and not even all of them know about the 1994 film. Besides, the target audience for the film, the GA, definitely does not know about it. Look at the "Bring the 1994 Fantastic Four movie to DVD" petition on facebook. It has about 400 likes, that's all.

So 3 failed movies that people know about... within the past decade. 4 in total. Marvel aren't going to make another Fantastic Four film within the next decade if this one fails and they get the rights back. GUARANTEED.
 
My point is that both MS and Fox will mess with films to make money. What matters is the right director and writer with a great vision and understanding of their respective property.
 
I'm still crossing my fingers Marvel gets the rights...
 
What Fox did to its actually iconic characters in X3 (Cyke, Prof X, Phoenix, et al.) and FF (Doom, anyone?) is wayyy more heinous than what Marvel did with Mandarin in IM3 or any other changes they've made in their movies.

If the rights reverting means Fox's reboot tanking and the GA being turned off to another FF movie for 10 years, I'm still all for it because within those 10 years Marvel would still be able to incorporate and weave the characters into other movies in the mighty machine that is the MCU.
 
^wtf did they do to xavier he has been done justice in all of the films:huh:
They made him an a-hole in X3, completely out of character. Not to mention it was the third movie in a row he was taken out of commission in the first third of the movie.
 
They made him an a-hole in X3, completely out of character. Not to mention it was the third movie in a row he was taken out of commission in the first third of the movie.

There's a lot not to like about XM:TLS, but I thought a-hole Xavier was one of the bright spots. His mind manipulation of young Jean turned out to have been a grievous error, and his confrontation with Logan was exceptionally well done -though that had a lot to do with the skill of the actors involved. It would make a lot of sense for Singer to readdress this issue in DOFP since Logan will be interacting with a pre-Jean Professor X.
 
There's a lot not to like about XM:TLS, but I thought a-hole Xavier was one of the bright spots. His mind manipulation of young Jean turned out to have been a grievous error, and his confrontation with Logan was exceptionally well done -though that had a lot to do with the skill of the actors involved. It would make a lot of sense for Singer to readdress this issue in DOFP since Logan will be interacting with a pre-Jean Professor X.
I agree that the scene was very well-acted, but I still think the plot itself subjected Xavier to character assassination (in both senses, really). It completely undermined who Professor X had been established to be--an idealist whose incredible psychic powers are only matched by his will to use them as ethically and responsibly as possible. The "by any means necessary" approach they wrote Xavier to have towards Phoenix was way off base in my opinion. Mind manipulation? Leave that to Emma Frost, Shadow King, even Magneto--foils for Xavier.

You could make the argument that it was a great way to show him as still human and flawed, but that only works if you give him a chance to redeem himself. But they didn't. Instead, they made him such a jerk that you kind of side with Dark Phoenix when she kills him. Anyway, I don't want to think about that movie anymore. Maybe DOFP will fix this as you have suggested, but until I see it happen I am not exonerating Fox from what they did in X3, and back to the point, it's still much worse than pulling the bait-and-switch in IM3.
 
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Turning your bad guy into a joke is never a good thing.
 
Turning your bad guy into a joke is never a good thing.
Yup.
hulk_smash_loki.gif


Seriously, though... are you attempting to imply that what Fox did with X3 is less egregious than what Marvel did with IM3?
 
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Yes I am actually LOL. I havn't been so disappointed in a film since Spidey 3.
 
Yup.
hulk_smash_loki.gif


Seriously, though... are you attempting to imply that what Fox did with X3 is less egregious than what Marvel did with IM3?

I give Loki a lot of credit here - he was walking, apparently with no lasting injuries, a short while after a horrific beatdown from the most powerful creature in the MCU. Also, kudos to Cap for lasting a round against an Asgardian.
 
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Until we have an official cast announcement I will continue to have hope.
 
That's a terrible example.

The original Star Wars trilogy was conceived as a series of sequels one at a time. The MCU was conceived as a cohesive universe made up of a combination of franchises. They are about as different as can be.

If you want other examples, I can give you them. MOS is a very recent example. It established a larger universe with small easter eggs (Wayne Enterprises logo, LexCorp logos, Cyborg reference, etc.) while still keeping the film a Superman-centered story with no screen time wasted for setting up JL. The first two MCU solo films (Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk) did the same thing. Iron Man 3 stood on its own for the most part and still further built the Marvel universe with things like AIM. Even Fox with The Wolverine has set up things for Days of Future Past and for the future but the film still stands on its own as a first and foremost Wolverine story with nothing to distract or take away from the story at hand.

Why can't the rest of MCU solo films both stand on their own while still further building up the universe? Why did Iron Man 2 (and Thor and CA:TFA as well but to a far lesser extent than IM2) have to be more of an Avengers promo instead of an Iron Man film that still accomplishes the same result?

Like most of your arguments so far, this is highly debatable.

And frankly, what exactly do you expect from films that exist in a greater universe among each other? Are you disappointed at the lack of focus on Spider-Man when Johnny Storm or Dr. Strange make an appearance in his comic? I mean, characters come in and out of other character's title comics all the time. Just because you aren't used to it in superhero movies before the MCU came around doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do...

I expect these films to be able to looked at on their own instead of being seen as just Avengers promos. Easter eggs and other references are fine as long as they don't take away from the whole overall story or hurt the potential of the overall story, which was the case with at least 3 films in Phase One.

There is a world of difference between comics doing this and films doing this. These characters have been established to exist in the comics for over 50 years and have had a huge number of stories by now that all developed their mythos. Comics can do that because they have reached a point where they can. Movies often have only 2 hours to develop the character at hand and his/her mythos and the first film is often just an origin story. It would be the equivalent of characters like Dr. Strange and the Avengers showing up in Peter Parker's origin or in one of his very first major adventures as Spider-Man.

Again, it sounds like your representing your personal opinions as the general public and fan's opinions.

And I don't think you can really say that the public didn't love Iron Man 3 when they spent over a billion dollars to see it...

We will never fully know what the GA thinks of each film unless we go out there and ask every single person that exists what they thought of these movies. However, there are samples that have been taken that give us a basic idea of what the GA thought overall of each film. One example is the audience score on websites like RT. Iron Man and The Avengers are the only ones with a "loved" score, being higher than 90%. Even Iron Man 3 can be considered as "loved" by the audience since it has an 81% score (I forgot to mention this in my last post, sorry).

For the record, I'm not saying that the quality of a film is determined by how much the GA overall liked it.

How exactly was the Red Skull watered down?

When was his motivation in the comics EVER more than world domination or destruction in some capacity? Hell, they had the guy kill people (even his own men) in cold blood in that film.

Granted, Red Skull could have benefited from a little more screen time and character development or motivation...but what did you expect? Did you want him to be just blowing people's heads off left and right?

His motivations was not the issue. On top of the fact that he didn't really feel all that terrifying, they ignored some very serious dark themes that come with his character. In the comics, the Red Skull was a terrifying racist and fascist on the same level as Hitler. If anything, he had more radical beliefs than even him. Not once did we see that fascist side of the character. They dropped that aspect altogether to make the film more family friendly.

Your argument might be that it is a good thing to make the film more family friendly. However, I personally believe that it wouldn't have been a problem. The Joker blew up hospitals and massacred people yet TDK still broke all box office records.
 
Fans of the FF are a real minority, and not even all of them know about the 1994 film. Besides, the target audience for the film, the GA, definitely does not know about it. Look at the "Bring the 1994 Fantastic Four movie to DVD" petition on facebook. It has about 400 likes, that's all.


Why would I "like" something that I found ... not even a word for it.
 
"Two friends (who end up being Mr. Fantastic and the Thing), starts with them being very young. An event happens at 16 and changes them, instead of being superheroes, they are basically owned by the government and used as weapons."

:doh:

Good Lord, no, please no.

I was worried about something like this with Millar aboard, but I'm praying this isn't right.

We know the story. That story is classic and has withstood the test of time. Except for a few minor tweeks, just keep it faithful to original - without which none of us would be here.
 
have any of you even followed this project that is not a synopsis but a logline and was old new and debunked back in april lol

Jeremy Slater, one of The Fantastic Four reboot’s original screenwriters, has posted a series of tweets seemingly debunking(?) the above logline. “Hahahaha nope,” one of the tweets read, while others remind us, “IRON MAN logline: Tony Stark talks about MySpace, builds weapons for terrorists, AVENGERS logline: Agent Maria Hill drives down tunnel, saves world.”
 
have any of you even followed this project that is not a synopsis but a logline and was old new and debunked back in april lol

Jeremy Slater, one of The Fantastic Four reboot’s original screenwriters, has posted a series of tweets seemingly debunking(?) the above logline. “Hahahaha nope,” one of the tweets read, while others remind us, “IRON MAN logline: Tony Stark talks about MySpace, builds weapons for terrorists, AVENGERS logline: Agent Maria Hill drives down tunnel, saves world.”


Phew! This is the first I've heard it, and it scared the crap out of me.
 
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