The Last Crusade of Relationships

[hopefuldreamer]

Well, I think I've identified your problem, you're all about playing games and can't break out of the outdated (and it is outdated) mindset of gender roles. It's 2012, you can make the first move and the first move isn't some coy body language, men, the kind you'd probably want to date, won't pick up on it. Be bold, be daring, ask him out. My girlfriend was the one who contacted me first, I thought it was sexy. She didn't play hard to get, she knew what she wanted and went after it, I was the first one to kiss her, but she was the first to invite me to spend the night at her place. You can't wait for the white knight, he doesn't exsist. Also, playing games is a total turn off for the good guys. Playing games will get you a "bad boy" who loves the thrill of the chase, but once he catches his prey, the thrill is gone and he's looking for another challenge. Stop with the silly games, be a modern, strong, independant woman.

I think the problem is people see 'playing games' as this really negative thing.

That's not how I see it at all. I just think that there are certain do's and don'ts when your trying to win someone's attention.

I used to be the kind of girl who'd tell a guy when I liked them and hope for the best. But it's always ended up being this really embarrasing thing, and I feel like I then loose any upper hand I had. The ball is then completely in their court, and I have relinquished control... which makes it basically up to them... and none of those guys ever did anything with that information other than tell me they really liked me as a friend and then start being really uncomfortable around me and avoiding one on one's at all costs... like they didn't wanna be around the girl who had a crush on them, like I might try something...

And i'm not saying that I come off as a cold ***** and 'play' people in the way that some people do where they lead guys on and **** tease and stuff... that's not the sort of playing that we're talking about.

We're just talking about not coming on too strong. Not just coming out and SAYING 'I really like you', but showing it with your body language, eye contact, flirting etc.

If the guy doesn't respond when i'm being fairly obvious, it's because he's not interested. You can tell. So no, i'm not going to tell him I like him, or ask him out... what would be the point? He obviously doesn't like me!

Doesn't Hopeful tend bar?

I always think that that "scene" is just an awful place to meet people. I know a bunch of people who tended bar, and between the incestious dating/banging between everyone who worked there as well as the regulars, it's no surprise that most of the relationships never worked out.

That much is definitely true.

But that's kind of the only 'scene' there is in my town. There is NOTHING to do but go out drinking.

How have the results of that expecting men to do the chasing gone for you?

Sometimes you have to take a risk. Sure, the safe way means you will never get your heart crushed, but it may never be satisfied either.

The heart still dies, but it does not die from hitting the pavement after a rejection, the safe way prevents that. No, instead the heart dies from being starved. Slowly withering into a shadow of its former self, until there is nothing left.

Some man really do like to be chased a bit and have the girl do some of the footwork.

I like to make initial contact with a girl, and then I give her a little less investment than she does me, just to put her in the chaser position, and see how she does.

My fiancé really put herself out there, and did a LOT of the work, and really had her heart on her sleeve. I could have easily emotionally crushed her. Instead, seeing how much she really wanted to be with me, in a relationship, I figured she was worth it.

My attitude was that if someone is working a temp position, and they really seem like they want the job, and they are good at it, why not hire them on as permanent, especially if there is a vacancy?

I’ve been with a lot of women who had a "chase me" attitude, and other than a FWB, I did not continue to chase then but would always move on until I found one who really was willing to put her heart out there for me.

I'm not blind to the fact there is a much greater risk in that, but the greater the risk....

Like I said, I don't mind waiting until someone DOES do the initial contact/asking out.

All i've ever done had are relationships/FWB that I initiated. I've had no success with it. I am sick of feeling pathetic, unwanted and desperate.

If someone wants to ask me out, they can. I'm just tired of all the failure.

It's not like i'm the kind of girl who will always wait a certain amount of time before replying to a text, or pretend to laugh at a friends joke when a guy walks in so he thinks i'm having fun.

I'm just myself around people, but I don't come right out and tell everyone exactly how I feel and ask out everyone I think is attractive. Cause that'd just be weird!

Oh, and just to be clear, I don't mind playing a bit of a chasing game once the guy has asked me out, or once we're in a relationship. I don't want it to be too easy, or for him to be too available/nice.

God... I'm writing all this and even I can see that I actually have no frickin idea what I want... which is probably my problem

Well yeah, it's a waste of time if it doesn't appear that the guy is interested at all. However, if you aren't sure, why not try? I guess I can't quite relate to the falling too hard before you've even expressed interest or had the guy approach you...to me, that's just a crush, and if it doesn't work out - on to the next one.

When I was single, it was pretty simple. If I liked a guy - awesome personality, good looking and I would like to do sexual things with him - it was not a big deal if things didn't work out the way I'd like. Plenty of other men in the world. I think that it's really important to keep that in mind (and that applies to the men here in regards to women, too).

I think everyone is forgetting the context of a small town.

One reason not to try - every single guy that I encounter, I encounter on a regular basis.

For instance, the guy I like right now is a regular at my bar. If I asked him out and he declined, i'd feel embarrased and awkward whenever he was in the bar.

Might sound like a wimpy excuse.

Maybe it is.

Maybe i'm just a wimp.

I think i'm kind of okay with being one in this scenario though...

 

[Anita18]

I've had crushes, sure. I've even felt really loving feelings for guys I'm close to, or have had flings with. But never IN love. Because in my mind now, because of everything I've experienced, I assosiate the feeling of being in love with being pathetic.

So yeah, anyway, the point was, I'm just going to wait. I'll be single my whole life, unless someone can break through that barrier. But it just doesn't feel worth the risk of feeling pathetic again. Not when I've worked so hard to become a completely self sufficient, independant, nobody's push over, take no **** person.

I think your perspective of love changes, especially when you get older and realize that the fairytale sort of love doesn't really exist.

I was INFATUATED what my first bf. Like, needed him by my side all the time sort of obsession. I thought that was love back then. But it was unhealthy, because I had a low self-esteem and all I thought about was him, not my own mental health. And yes, that sort of "love" does feel pathetic.

I was never infatuated with my current bf. If anything, it was a slow realization. The very opposite of exciting and spontaneous. But what I have is something better. I think of him, and I know he's there. I stick my hand out and I know he'll take it, every time. How we met is a blip in our histories - it says something about our individual personalities, but it doesn't make our relationship.

When the naivete of fairytale love dies, that sort of love still exists, if you're willing to take a chance. I think you're on the precipice of deciding which kind of love you really want.

Not in my experience!

If I like a guy, the best way to figure out if he likes me back at all is to feel it out. Casually flirt, make subtle comments etc.

If your good at reading people, which I do consider myself to be, then you can gage whether or not there is any attraction there.

What I find harder to gage is whether or not that attraction has any longevity. Whether or not the person sees you as girlfriend material or 'fun' material.

And that's really the risk your making if you let yourself fall for someone before or while your courting, especially if your the one who makes the first move.

Basically, don't fall for someone until you can see they are falling for you too. And even then, don't fall too hard until your sure.

Hah, I've been there, and we were both too shy to make a move. It's been 10 years since we met, I saw him again at my college reunion and he was still making googly eyes at me. From what I've seen on Fb, he's never had a serious gf and I've been talking marriage with someone else.

So...someone's gotta make a move if you want things to really go anywhere. Might as well be you if you think you'd really like a guy.

And IMO if you're falling hard for someone even before a move is actually made, you're investing way too early!

I'm not saying I'm looking for someone with no dating history. It's just if she's at 18 and has been with a few guys sexually, whereas I'm at 23 and still with no experience, it seems uneven. I guess my lack of sexual experience and knowledge makes me feel a little more naive and innocent with the topic and I don't really know how to approach the subject because in all honesty, its not something I think about when talking to a girl.

Like I have this other friend who is going to be 20 in a few months and she's dated a few guys, and she's been with her current boyfriend for a few months and she said she's still a virgin, and I find that more admirable because it shows the difference in their character. She said she's just waiting for the right time with the right person, and as silly as it sounds, I respect that more because I can understand that and I also find it a little more attractive. I've always said I'm not the type to do random hook-ups or one night stands, so its hard for me to feel comfortable around people who are into that. But at least I can understand that with people closer to my age. But with someone much younger, it feels a little weird.

You could be 18 and dated 3 people for a year each (which is pretty serious even for people my age) and slept with them and it wouldn't be THAT unusual. Who says that she's had to have random hook-ups or one-night stands to have a dating history that young?

When you're young, you can very much think that your high school bf is THE ONE. Hindsight is always 20/20. I only waited so long because I was picky and hadn't yet matured to be able to ask for what I wanted, and I wanted to be sure I could do that beforehand. Lots of girls have regret over their first times, but ya know, most of them grow up and figure stuff out.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Hmmm... you guys are making me change my mind...

Tell you what, if the guy I like who's a regular at my work comes in tonight, I will try and pluck up the courage to at least ask him why he never texted me after asking for my number on New Year's Eve when he found out I liked him through the other barmaid...

(I even texted him the next day asking him how his head was and got no reply )

At least then i'll know whether it's because he was so drunk he didn't remember asking for it, put it in his phone wrong, or just decided against/wimped out of asking me out properly.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

I think everyone is forgetting the context of a small town.

One reason not to try - every single guy that I encounter, I encounter on a regular basis.

For instance, the guy I like right now is a regular at my bar. If I asked him out and he declined, i'd feel embarrased and awkward whenever he was in the bar.

Might sound like a wimpy excuse.

Maybe it is.

Maybe i'm just a wimp.

I think i'm kind of okay with being one in this scenario though...

Thought you were getting out of that small town anyway? In terms of meeting men it IS a good idea. Sooner the better.
You got youth on your side right now.

This does mean getting out of a small town, to maximize those options.
It also gets you more options for other opportunities. You are still planning on becoming a journalist? Right?

You won’t get the exposure to the world you need in order to inform most people who are ignorant of the world, living in a small town. You won’t be blowing the whistle on human right violations, or informing people of a cure for a disease or anything major that you want to accomplish if you are stuck in small town syndrome.

You got to get out of there, THEN worry about finding a man. If that is what you really want.

The life of a traveling journalist does tend to make relationships hard in general, as all traveling lifestyles do.

What is more important to you? Your career? Or find a good man and start a family?

Having a relationship CAN be a dream killer, as people subconsciously turn down opportunities in order to preserve a relationship.

 

[SpideyVille]

So how exactly does one avoid coming across as clingy and desperate. With this new girl, I have tried to pick my spots of when to talk to her, yet it goes in extremes sometimes. Like one day I'll pass by her and say things back and forth with her at rehearsal, but then other days we won't even talk at all and I don't really make any effort to. Part of it is because I don't want to seem like I'm bothering her every chance I get, and also because there are times when I'm trying to work a scene and she is busy trying to learn how to be the stage manager.

People have been coming up to me lately telling me I should've talked to her at such and such time, or that I should've used a break in between scenes to speak to her, but I've been very weary of crossing the line that would make me look clingy or bothersome. After the last girl, I'm really trying to make sure I give her some space.

Well the experience disparity is only going to increase if you stay stalled at the starting block, so a girl with a few (which I take to mean 3) sexual partners is too much. What if it was from two long term boyfriends in high school and that drunken one night stand during the first week of college? What if her first time was very special with someone she trusted and she was ready? My girlfriend was engaged before I met her, she realized it wasn't right and broke it off, a few months later we met. I could let that eat me up inside, but I chose to ignore it, it's in the past, what matters is the present. At the same time, it's something she's learned from, she didn't talk enough about the future with her ex and when they started talking about their wedding and marriage, she realized they weren't on the same page. As a result, as we've gotten closer we've talked about our future and know we're on the same page. Experience can be a good thing, if you let it be. It can also, be a very bad thing.

Yeah, you're right. I mean it really is a bit intimidating to me because I feel like less of a person because I'm 4 1/2 years older and don't have much experience. A few friends of mine have said that they could see how girls my age would find it a little cool that I'm still a virgin because its almost like a change from all of the other guys they've been with, but for the girl to be a lot younger than me, it feels weird, especially since she wouldn't have the same years of experience, maturity and patience as older girls would.

You could be 18 and dated 3 people for a year each (which is pretty serious even for people my age) and slept with them and it wouldn't be THAT unusual. Who says that she's had to have random hook-ups or one-night stands to have a dating history that young?

When you're young, you can very much think that your high school bf is THE ONE. Hindsight is always 20/20. I only waited so long because I was picky and hadn't yet matured to be able to ask for what I wanted, and I wanted to be sure I could do that beforehand. Lots of girls have regret over their first times, but ya know, most of them grow up and figure stuff out.

Well like I just mentioned above, there is a certain amount of experience that only comes through time and age that she doesn't have and it makes me feel like that would be more of an issue for her having to deal with someone who's older and is not as experienced in any form of being in a relationship. She knows I'm a virgin and thinks it pretty cool, in the sense that she wishes she didn't make the mistakes that she did, but its one thing to say that to someone you just met and another to say that to someone you would date.

 

[Dark Raven]

So how exactly does one avoid coming across as clingy and desperate. With this new girl, I have tried to pick my spots of when to talk to her, yet it goes in extremes sometimes. Like one day I'll pass by her and say things back and forth with her at rehearsal, but then other days we won't even talk at all and I don't really make any effort to. Part of it is because I don't want to seem like I'm bothering her every chance I get, and also because there are times when I'm trying to work a scene and she is busy trying to learn how to be the stage manager.

I know the feeling, and the same thing has gone through my head before (not with your girl but someone else obviously! ). The problem with all of this is that it kind of becomes a game. You have to measure every interaction and second guess yourself all the time. Am I talking too much? Should I go over now? How many hours/ days has it been since our last interaction? Is she keeping track?

The way I've come to see it is that if you're having to keep wondering whether you're overdoing it and whether you've already exhausted your quota with her for that day/week/month (and she thinks like that too) then there's already problematic signs there. It will make you miserable and you won't be able to be natural or yourself around her because you'll always have those thoughts in the back of your mind.

If she does have a very set quota of how much you can talk to her, then when you start playing into that, it will affect your attitude towards her and will make you nervous around her, which will make her want to reduce that quota even more. You'll also be thinking that, because your time is limited with her, you've got to make that small time slot you've been allotted with her count, and you will put unnecessary pressure on yourself to try to seem charming, funny, say something interesting etc to further yourself along with her, again making you nervous, clingy and desperate, and making her more uncomfortable in the process.

Look at it this way: if you didn't have any feelings for her but she was just a platonic friend whom you got on with very well, wouldn't you both keep talking to each other whenever you got the chance? There might be times when you don't get the opportunity to speak to each other because you're both busy (just as you've indicated above), but it wouldn't matter. But when you did, neither of you would be thinking that it's been too soon after the last chat. You would both just keep talking to each other as and when you like, simply because you enjoy each other's company, and in the process, you might even become better friends or more. There would be no question at all of seeming clingy or desperate in either of your minds.

If she's the type of girl with whom you have to wonder whether you've exhausted your allotted quota, then maybe you need to honestly reevaluate whether she's really right for you. You don't want this feeling, believe me. It will drive you insane in the end and it probably won't work out. There are definitely girls out there who won't give you that feeling all the time (if ever) just as there are girls who can make you feel that you've already overdone it for the current month, and you have to count off the days until the next time you're allowed to speak to her.

BTW I think you can tell whether a girl feels you've overdone it with her even in a day. Let's say you've spoken to her in the morning at some length. Now with some girls, they won't talk to you at all the rest of the day, and you might reason "well, I had a good chat with her earlier, so that's good enough, so I don't mind if she goes to talk to her other friends." She might even tell you that she wants to talk to some other people. However, a good sign of whether a girl has a quota or not is that she might still talk to you at different intervals throughout the day despite having chatted at length earlier. Or if she does talk to her other friends, she still includes you in the conversation either by inviting you over or, if you wander over, she opens the circle to include you and introduce you. And then within that group setting, if you say something to someone else, she will still sometimes respond to that instead of just ignoring you. It shows that she doesn't mind you being around and isn't measuring or keeping score of each interaction.

Look for those kinds of clues within a group setting and what she does at different times of the day to decide what kind of person she is.

Ultimately one of the underlying ideas behind whether someone has a quota or not is this: how welcoming and inclusive are they?

 

[SuperMike335!!]

So how exactly does one avoid coming across as clingy and desperate. With this new girl, I have tried to pick my spots of when to talk to her, yet it goes in extremes sometimes. Like one day I'll pass by her and say things back and forth with her at rehearsal, but then other days we won't even talk at all and I don't really make any effort to. Part of it is because I don't want to seem like I'm bothering her every chance I get, and also because there are times when I'm trying to work a scene and she is busy trying to learn how to be the stage manager.

People have been coming up to me lately telling me I should've talked to her at such and such time, or that I should've used a break in between scenes to speak to her, but I've been very weary of crossing the line that would make me look clingy or bothersome. After the last girl, I'm really trying to make sure I give her some space.



Yeah, you're right. I mean it really is a bit intimidating to me because I feel like less of a person because I'm 4 1/2 years older and don't have much experience. A few friends of mine have said that they could see how girls my age would find it a little cool that I'm still a virgin because its almost like a change from all of the other guys they've been with, but for the girl to be a lot younger than me, it feels weird, especially since she wouldn't have the same years of experience, maturity and patience as older girls would.


Well like I just mentioned above, there is a certain amount of experience that only comes through time and age that she doesn't have and it makes me feel like that would be more of an issue for her having to deal with someone who's older and is not as experienced in any form of being in a relationship. She knows I'm a virgin and thinks it pretty cool, in the sense that she wishes she didn't make the mistakes that she did, but its one thing to say that to someone you just met and another to say that to someone you would date.

This girl you like who is younger than you. Yeah that one. You need to make a move. **** or get off the pot. The longer you wait, the more dug in to the friend zone you are. Good chance she KNOWS that you are into her. I’d bet money that you’re body language and tone have given it away. Women are quite perceptive of these things. That’s not necessarily bad, but the longer you wait now the lower your chances get.

Invite her to come out with you some time, or meet somewhere whatever. When you two are there, after being around her a bit, with the two of you not around the rest of the crew, make a physical move, kiss her. Something bold. Keep in mind you might fail. It happens all the time, if it does not big deal, sometimes you fail. Meet new girls make new attempts.
This trying to cozy up to her, to play it too safe is sure to fail.

Wondering if you are making the right impression, talking to her too much, or not enough etc… shows that you have her up on a pedestal on top of a tall mountain. All this obsessing over her looks bad. You’re not sure what is too much or too little, but you have not made any move to ask her out. You have more than enough familiarity with her, and plenty of guys ask out women they have never seen before. So stop obsessing over it, and do something about it.

Also, stop advertising that you are a virgin. You are 22 right? Some girls may say that’s cool, but that does not mean it’s a turn on. I’ve had sex with plenty of women, but I don’t ever tell girls my number on a date either, or even make mention of it. So in this way it is a level playing field, as nobody has to talk about their sexual history or lack there of. Let the girl wonder a bit, you don’t have to be a 10 second downloaded e-book with your whole life story.

I have actually cancelled dates with virgins, and if a girl is a virgin I stop any attempts to get in her pants if we are alone when I find out. Last thing I want is a girl to lose something like that to a guy like me. If she has maintained that and is on her way to waiting until marriage, I’d be the worst kind of guy to spoil that with. Some women will treat men the same way. They might not want to spoil it for you, even if you don’t want to be a virgin. So just don’t mention it. If your friends have gone and told a girl you like about your sexual history or lack thereof, I suggest making a new circle of friends. Nobody needs friends who sabotage them like that.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I don't agree with a lot of SuperMike, but ^^^ This so hard ^^^

If I reveal to a girl that I'm a virgin, it means that there is no shot of her and I sleeping together, either because she doesn't want to sleep with me, or I wouldn't do her anyways.

There was a very short period of time where I thought that being a virgin might be something a girl would like, but I quickly discovered otherwise, once when a female friend of mine said she wouldn't sleep with me as long as I was a virgin, and again when another female friend, over the course of a joke, said she wouldn't sleep with me because she's already "had her fill of virgins" and didn't want anymore.

Then, with the couple girls who I've had any semblance of an emotional relationship with, I found that they were both turned on by the mysteriousness of my sexual past when I wouldn't reveal to them how many partners I've had. I would talk just enough game to give off the vibe that I have experience (I -do- have sexual experience, just not with intercourse, but I do have experience with everything else besides that), and like Mike mentions, the element of leaving them wondering was a turn on to them.

So from those learning experiences, I've learned to never tell a girl that I am a virgin, cuz it's really not going to get me anywhere. The only people who know that I'm a virgin are close friends, or people who I really have no concerns with them having that information. I'm not particularly ashamed of it, so I don't go out of my way to hide it, although I would like to change it. And I definitely don't advertise it to girls whom I consider potential, either sexual partners or girlfriend candidates.

 

[Dark Raven]

I don't agree with a lot of SuperMike, but ^^^ This so hard ^^^

If I reveal to a girl that I'm a virgin, it means that there is no shot of her and I sleeping together, either because she doesn't want to sleep with me, or I wouldn't do her anyways.

There was a very short period of time where I thought that being a virgin might be something a girl would like, but I quickly discovered otherwise, once when a female friend of mine said she wouldn't sleep with me as long as I was a virgin, and again when another female friend, over the course of a joke, said she wouldn't sleep with me because she's already "had her fill of virgins" and didn't want anymore.

Then, with the couple girls who I've had any semblance of an emotional relationship with, I found that they were both turned on by the mysteriousness of my sexual past when I wouldn't reveal to them how many partners I've had. I would talk just enough game to give off the vibe that I have experience (I -do- have sexual experience, just not with intercourse, but I do have experience with everything else besides that), and like Mike mentions, the element of leaving them wondering was a turn on to them.

So from those learning experiences, I've learned to never tell a girl that I am a virgin, cuz it's really not going to get me anywhere. The only people who know that I'm a virgin are close friends, or people who I really have no concerns with them having that information. I'm not particularly ashamed of it, so I don't go out of my way to hide it, although I would like to change it. And I definitely don't advertise it to girls whom I consider potential, either sexual partners or girlfriend candidates.

Well, being a virgin (and whether girls are turned on or off by it) is one thing. If you go back a few steps further and you've not even kissed anyone, then a girl who has had several boyfriends already is not going to want to be the one to break you in, so to speak. They would almost feel that, in a sense, you're a baby and they're an adult, and they don't want such a disparity in the relationship like that.

Another thing about never having kissed someone is that, as you get older, you don't want to waste that first kiss with just anyone who doesn't even matter, just because you want a kiss. Well, that's certainly the case for me. I don't want one at all costs. It has to be with someone who means something, not a casual meaningless snog during a game of spin the bottle, truth or dare or something similar. That also puts pressure on the whole idea of kissing someone, because if I ever get to that stage, I'll wonder if this person is going to mean anything or whether to them it's just as casual an act as shaking hands - something they forget about immediately afterwards. It's the equivalent of a guy losing his virgininty with a prostitute who has had hundreds of partners. The guy would be a nameless face (or body) to her to whom it was just a job. That in turn would also put pressure on the girl, because she would know that I've never kissed anyone and she wouldn't want me to think it's more than it is or she might think I've put her on a pedestal.

So I think that there comes a point in your life that, if you've never kissed someone by a certain age, you probably never will, because of all the problems associated with it as mentioned above.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I certainly get what you're saying, I have a female friend who's never really been with a man at any level, and she started dating this guy who had even less experience than she had (never even kissed a girl), and it freaked her out. She felt that, as inexperienced as she was, there's no way she could be with a guy who was even less experienced than her.

And you know what, I do understand the idea of wanting your first kiss, or first time having sex, to be special or whatever, but at some point I do believe that's a romantic notion that you have to get over. My first real kiss, that wasn't just a peck on the lips, was when I was 23, I was out with a female friend, she got drunk, and we made out at the bar. It meant absolutely nothing, and to her it was nothing more than getting drunk and acting stupid.

You know what? I don't regret it. I don't feel like I missed out.

The same thing happened, with the same girl, a few months later after I had turned 24 - we went out again, she got drunk, and we made out at the bar. And again, I didn't regret it.

Shortly after the second time, I met my "ex" (I put it in quotations because it was an awkward situation that long story short amounted to her cheating on her boyfriend with me - but even to this day she does consider that her and I were "together", along with the fact that "ex" is easier to type and say than "girl who was cheating on her boyfriend with me"), and had my first emotionally filled kiss. I don't feel like my first kiss with my "ex" was any less special because my first kiss period was with a drunken hussy at a bar.

And as much as ideally I'd love to lose my virginity with a special girl who I have a strong emotional attachment with, truth is, I don't think my first time with someone special would be ruined if I had a drunken one night stand with some drunken college girl at a party to lose my virginity.

To be honest, there's an argument to be made for losing your virginity to someone you don't give a rat's ass about, because you'd be getting all the awkwardness of your first time out on someone you'll likely never see again, thus being a bit more confident and capable for that special someone that you do care about.

I've honestly given up any ideas of making sure my first time with someone is with that special person at that magical moment (not to be interpreted in a defeatist way). If I lose it to someone special, great, if I lose it during a drunken night at a college party, great.

And that's not to be confused with me being desperate and just settling for the first girl that will open her legs to me. It would still have to be a situation that I'm comfortable with, with a person that I'm comfortable with, and I don't recommend just losing it to anyone (as I wouldn't recommend having sex with just anyone who is willing), but I do believe that you should lose the romantic notions of sharing your first kiss or your first time having sex with that wonderfully magic person. Sometimes, I think you need to just get yourself in the game before you can find the situation you're looking for.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

If you're dating someone you don't really have to discuss your virginity. If she asks, because sometimes the topic comes up, you should be honest, don't lie, but don't think of it as a mark of shame. Lots of cool people were virgins. Tim Tebow is, so is Isaac Newton and Chris Rock and Hugh Hefner were virgins until 25. So don't let it bother you.

It's really silly once you finally have sex by the way. Sex is great, we are programmed to have a pretty strong addiction to it. It won't alter your life though, and once you've done it you've done it, and you'll want more. It shouldn't be something to stress over though, because virginity is a title that matters really only to other virgins. I don't really think about it, it's like asking "am I a boy?", I already know the answer. More concerned with the next one.

 

[Anubis]

Tim Tebow isn't cool.

And Chris Rock was a virgin for so long cuz he didn't have the money to get his teeth fixed.

 

[Anita18]

Well like I just mentioned above, there is a certain amount of experience that only comes through time and age that she doesn't have and it makes me feel like that would be more of an issue for her having to deal with someone who's older and is not as experienced in any form of being in a relationship. She knows I'm a virgin and thinks it pretty cool, in the sense that she wishes she didn't make the mistakes that she did, but its one thing to say that to someone you just met and another to say that to someone you would date.

There you go putting thoughts in her head again. Give her some credit - let HER decide. (This goes for a lot of guys here, actually!)

You're assuming things, not even letting people have a chance to prove themselves with you. Can't you see that it's totally holding you back, and would probably hold you back in an actual relationship as well?

There was a very short period of time where I thought that being a virgin might be something a girl would like, but I quickly discovered otherwise, once when a female friend of mine said she wouldn't sleep with me as long as I was a virgin, and again when another female friend, over the course of a joke, said she wouldn't sleep with me because she's already "had her fill of virgins" and didn't want anymore.

Depends on the girl. A girl my ex-bf was living with (in a bid to have a "real relationship" when he was still in college I guess, but ended up a weird parasitic, pathetic, dependent thing), wouldn't sleep with him because he was a virgin, but presumably the woman who became his wife didn't mind one bit. And that's why he's married to her - because she is awesome.

So I think that there comes a point in your life that, if you've never kissed someone by a certain age, you probably never will, because of all the problems associated with it as mentioned above.

I think kissing is so minor compared to sex (and is over with so quickly) that it really doesn't matter if you tell someone your kissing experience.

Frankly, my first kiss with my bf was SO awkward that I was pretty much convinced he'd never kissed anyone ever. I was actually surprised when he told me he'd had several girlfriends in the past and wasn't a virgin.

So as far as I'm concerned, your hangups with kissing are pretty much unfounded, even if you've never kissed anyone before. I only remember my first kiss with my bf because of how utterly awkward it was and because I had the most hilarious thought right afterward, "Huh, this is an interesting development..."

I mean, I don't go around kissing people willy nilly, but it's really still just a kiss.

To be honest, there's an argument to be made for losing your virginity to someone you don't give a rat's ass about, because you'd be getting all the awkwardness of your first time out on someone you'll likely never see again, thus being a bit more confident and capable for that special someone that you do care about.

Do I have to repeat that story AGAIN about my bf who was unable to perform with me like, the first 10 times even though HE wasn't the virgin?

Having experience can mean nothing. You're still doing it for the first time with that particular person. That part probably made him exceedingly nervous, because he really really liked me and didn't want to mess it up. Even I though I had told him I was a virgin. I guess you could say he kind of did "mess it up" by being so nervous, but in the big picture, it didn't really matter. We always had fun in the end and he appreciated that I was patient and would take him any way he was.

The only thing that "experience" helped with was knowing which hole to put it into, and frankly, you can learn that watching porn anyway.

If you're dating someone you don't really have to discuss your virginity. If she asks, because sometimes the topic comes up, you should be honest, don't lie, but don't think of it as a mark of shame. Lots of cool people were virgins. Tim Tebow is, so is Isaac Newton and Chris Rock and Hugh Hefner were virgins until 25. So don't let it bother you.

It's really silly once you finally have sex by the way. Sex is great, we are programmed to have a pretty strong addiction to it. It won't alter your life though, and once you've done it you've done it, and you'll want more. It shouldn't be something to stress over though, because virginity is a title that matters really only to other virgins. I don't really think about it, it's like asking "am I a boy?", I already know the answer. More concerned with the next one.

For the girls, Tina Fey was a virgin until 24, losing it to the guy who became her husband. And Tina Fey is definitely cool!

I must agree about not having changed because of the sex thing. You're still the same person, although you will have probably learned more about patience and communicating, depending on the person you're with.

I told my bf I was a virgin the morning after the first time he stayed over at my place. He wasn't the kind of guy to just go for it at such an opportunity - not sure if he's shy or if he sensed I wasn't totally in. But we did something pretty sexual and talked about it afterwards. "It's not like I'm a virgin or anything." "Well, I am." "Oh...well that's okay." LOL, probably a little more awkward than it had to be. But the point was made. It didn't really matter to me at that point, so I felt it needed to be said only when it looked like it was gonna head down that road.

And again, for guys, I don't think it really matters if you tell a girl it's your first time. You can still be nervous even when you've had experience. But for a girl...well I wanted to be sure he just wasn't gonna go in there guns blazing, if you know what I mean. And it was a good thing I did tell him, because we did a lot of other things to make me more comfortable.

 

[Erzengel]

It's a little different with a girl being a virgin than it is with a boy.

Yeah it really depends on the person you are with and it depends on the reasoning if they blossomed OR if it's some sort of religious aspects.

But I think once you are out of your mid 20s, it may not be necessarily be an "issue" but I think a lot of women would be taken aback.

 

[AndThePickles]

To be honest, there's an argument to be made for losing your virginity to someone you don't give a rat's ass about, because you'd be getting all the awkwardness of your first time out on someone you'll likely never see again, thus being a bit more confident and capable for that special someone that you do care about.

I've honestly given up any ideas of making sure my first time with someone is with that special person at that magical moment (not to be interpreted in a defeatist way). If I lose it to someone special, great, if I lose it during a drunken night at a college party, great.

And that's not to be confused with me being desperate and just settling for the first girl that will open her legs to me. It would still have to be a situation that I'm comfortable with, with a person that I'm comfortable with, and I don't recommend just losing it to anyone (as I wouldn't recommend having sex with just anyone who is willing), but I do believe that you should lose the romantic notions of sharing your first kiss or your first time having sex with that wonderfully magic person. Sometimes, I think you need to just get yourself in the game before you can find the situation you're looking for.

I agree with you. I can't even remember my first kiss, and the first person I had sex with was meaningless. I dont regret it, and have had many other meaningful and wonderful experiences in my life in terms of romantic moments. Romance definitely does not have to be exclusively attached to sexual moments, and I honestly don't see much that is romantic about your first time having sex, no matter who it's with. It's much more enjoyable AFTER that first time.

Personally, I would not want to date anyone that went around advertising their virginity to everyone. Do you know how much pressure that creates for the other person? Ugh.

 

[Anubis]

I don't see how.

Whether you're good or terrible, how the f**k would they know?

 

[Anita18]

I don't see how.

Whether you're good or terrible, how the f**k would they know?

Exactly. Telling a prospective partner you're a virgin is basically taking the pressure off yourself and putting it onto the other person.

I mean, I could have told my bf to go reeeeaaally gently, and that maaaaybe we should work slowly toward intercourse. Telling him I was a virgin was the shortcut.

 

[AndThePickles]

I don't see how.

Whether you're good or terrible, how the f**k would they know?

I wasn't referring to performance pressure in that respect. I mean in the case of the first time being built up as this magical, be all end all moment of unicorns and romance. And the potential over-attachment issues that could occur from someone who is that worried about their virginity.

 

[Anita18]

I wasn't referring to performance pressure in that respect. I mean in the case of the first time being built up as this magical, be all end all moment of unicorns and romance. And the potential over-attachment issues that could occur from someone who is that worried about their virginity.

That depends on the person. If you got to know the person well, you could make a pretty good prediction about how he/she would react to a first-time sexual encounter.

Personally, the magical unicorn and romance fantasies ended when I realized I would have to put something as big as THAT up there. "Um, let's go about this more methodically..."

 

[Anubis]

Ohhh, eh, that happens even with non virgins from time to time.

 

[AndThePickles]

Definitely depends on the person, but I still think that anyone who attaches "virgin" as a defining description of themselves to everyone would be a turn off to a lot of people. Not that there's anything wrong with the virginity aspect, but it is awkward when someone makes it a huge deal. Like, "hello, I'm 24, enjoy music and dancing, am a successful banker, and oh, I'm a virgin in case you hadn't heard yet."

I've never slept with a virgin, but if someone mentioned it to me before we even kissed, for example, I would be taken aback and feel awkward.

 

[Anita18]

Definitely depends on the person, but I still think that anyone who attaches "virgin" as a defining description of themselves to everyone would be a turn off to a lot of people. Not that there's anything wrong with the virginity aspect, but it is awkward when someone makes it a huge deal. Like, "hello, I'm 24, enjoy music and dancing, am a successful banker, and oh, I'm a virgin in case you hadn't heard yet."

I've never slept with a virgin, but if someone mentioned it to me before we even kissed, for example, I would be taken aback and feel awkward.

I get the concern about that. It really shouldn't be a huge part of who a person is.

Though I actually did meet someone off Craigslist who advertised he was a 26-y-o virgin before anything else about himself. It was in a joke-ish way, like, "My friends dared me to put this in the email title!" but then the rest of his email was very self-confident and funny so I thought he'd be all right.

He didn't mention it at all when we did meet in person. And we never met again because I realized quite quickly that he has....patience and anger issues that somehow didn't materialize when we chatted.

 

[Erzengel]

Definitely depends on the person, but I still think that anyone who attaches "virgin" as a defining description of themselves to everyone would be a turn off to a lot of people. Not that there's anything wrong with the virginity aspect, but it is awkward when someone makes it a huge deal. Like, "hello, I'm 24, enjoy music and dancing, am a successful banker, and oh, I'm a virgin in case you hadn't heard yet."

I've never slept with a virgin, but if someone mentioned it to me before we even kissed, for example, I would be taken aback and feel awkward.

I knew someone who went from 28-29 and went from 1st girlfriend, loss of virginity, wedding, and conception of child in that time frame.

I don't want to say it's an immediate turnoff and an automatic deal breaker, but I wouldn't be surprised if some women didn't question "why" off the bat.

 

[enterthemadness]

Why? Why? Why?!

It takes two to tango, not one.

Saw this on a girls Facebook, but basically it's a pic. Has like a guy at a bar. One of those cartoon ones. Has like a wall of text...point is...when women keep saying "where are the nice guys at?" and men are tired of that old line, say "in the Friend-Zone where you left them."

And I'm not a nice guy, more of a shy douce. I can be nice though.

 

[Daniel Thompson]

Why? Why? Why?!

It takes two to tango, not one.

Saw this on a girls Facebook, but basically it's a pic. Has like a guy at a bar. One of those cartoon ones. Has like a wall of text...point is...when women keep saying "where are the nice guys at?" and men are tired of that old line, say "in the Friend-Zone where you left them."

And I'm not a nice guy, more of a shy douce. I can be nice though.

Lol im so using that line in real life if women ever ask me that question.