The Last Crusade of Relationships

[hopefuldreamer]

So, my heart hurts today

I guess all this talk of opening up and taking risks worked. Unfortunately, it worked with the wrong person.

Spent all day yesterday hanging out with three friends. One is a couple, the other is my ex housemate. They sat on my sofa, he sat with me on my bed, and we all just watched Futurama, had a giggle, drank some beers and chilled.

I kept noticing him looking at me. There was something different about the energy between us. We were even saying stuff at the same time and then looking at each other and laughing that we are just so in sync.

The other two got up to leave at 10.30 and he didn't even try to make a move, which I didn't mind as I had no work today. We were chatting away some more, laughing, and then he lifted his arm so I could snuggle down into him.

Really tentatively at first, he starts little stroking motions on my arm. After a while, I respond in kind. The gentle contact is already making my heart flutter. We've been in bed together plenty of times recently and he's not made a move, so I don't know what made him go for it this time... like I said, something just felt different.

Off comes his shirt, then he's lifting the back of my top slightly and stroking my lower back. My skins gone completely tingly.

Now, I don't want to go into too much detail, but this leads to what I can only describe as the most love filled sexual experience of my life.

And we didn't even have sex!

Spoiler

(I mentioned before about the difficulties he has because of his meds

Just a heck of a lot of kissing, smushing together of bodies, holding, caressing, sweating, breathing... I was incredibly blown by it. I was both completely turned on and feeling all these loving feelings come rushing in all at once.

And once we'd both calmed down, we just lay there in blissful content, not saying a word, me tracing the line of his jaw, him kissing my forehead, stroking my hair and holding me tight to him.

And that content, wasn't from any kind of actual release. But just the contentment of knowing that the other person had responded. That they'd felt it too. That they enjoyed exploring you and just being intimate with you as much as you did with them. Just the bliss of that knowledge alone.

That just isn't something that's ever happened to me. Ever. I mean, he obviously feels SOME way about me... no one is like that with just any girl are they? You don't act like that with someone you've just used cause you're horny right

I have no idea what to do about it... well there's nothing I can do I guess...

He'll be gone by the end of the month. He knows it, and I know it. Why they hell this had to happen now, is just sod's law.

But i've spent the last three hours listening to disney love songs and crying

I KNEW love sucked. I bloody knew it, I knew there was a reason I stopped letting this happen!

I guess all I can hope, is that however many months it takes him in Thailand, that night sticks in his head. I hope that he doesn't get back with his ex while he's out there. And I hope that if I am still single, and still feel the way I do today, and he moves to Bristol like he said he is planning to do when he comes back, that I have the courage to see if this is something special

 

[Nave 'Torment']

GO HOPEFUL!

Seriously, stop feeling sad about it and just really, celebrate the hell away. You wanted it right? Right!?

Yes, he could change come Thailand, but so what? You felt the chemistry was right between the two of you now and he responded. That guy will remember it for the time he's away.

If anything, I'd say you tune up those Disney songs and par-tay.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

So, my heart hurts today

(edited down as to save thread space)

Well, with taking risks I think most of us meant with a NEW guy.

Keep in mind you don't want to be tied down and you want to build life around your career anyway.

You should be happy you get to have such experiences without the confines of a relationship. Not sad because you don't end up in a long term relationship with him.

Can guys be very physically loving with a woman and not desire to be knee deep in a relationship? Yes they can.

 

[Erzengel]

Once... if you can call High School pairing a "significant relationship". Lasted 2 years until she grew up and became someone I couldn't relate to anymore.

EDIT: Why though?

Let's just say those who usually say they don't need relationships either just got out of a dysfunctional one or never really been in one.

And no I don't consider most HS relationships as significant.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

GO HOPEFUL!

Seriously, stop feeling sad about it and just really, celebrate the hell away. You wanted it right? Right!?

Yes, he could change come Thailand, but so what? You felt the chemistry was right between the two of you now and he responded. That guy will remember it for the time he's away.

If anything, I'd say you tune up those Disney songs and par-tay.

I hope so

Well, with taking risks I think most of us meant with a NEW guy.

Keep in mind you don't want to be tied down and you want to build life around your career anyway.

You should be happy you get to have such experiences without the confines of a relationship. Not sad because you don't end up in a long term relationship with him.

Can guys be very physically loving with a woman and not desire to be knee deep in a relationship? Yes they can.

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting that either of us were being that way because we want to be knee deep in a relationship... just that I hope i'm not mad for thinking it means he feels something for me too. I think we feel the same way about each other... very close, very confused, and very much care about each other.

I know you meant someone new

It's probably for the best. We keep ALMOST happening. This will be the third time we've almost happened. There must be a reason why it's not actually coming to fruition.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Let's just say those who usually say they don't need relationships either just got out of a dysfunctional one or never really been in one.

And no I don't consider most HS relationships as significant.

That may be true, but it doesn't nullify the fact that one doesn't really need to be in a relationship to be content with himself, or need to be in a relationship at all times. That would border on some sort of psychosis to be honest.

I'd put myself in both of your categories though. Because despite the fact that i was dating this girl for what... three weeks? I really did devote a lot in it emotionally, and then saw that it was pointless. Utterly pointless. So colour me skeptical but yeah, I think it's a lot better that I devote a good deal into developing myself, recovering my self-esteem, and maybe even see about starting that superheroic-vigilantism thing I've been promising myself since I was 8

Bottom line: Not interested in a relationship right now.

Am I bitter? Yes, a little bit. I didn't want this to happen, but it did. It's done. Let's move on.

 

[Hound55]

So, my heart hurts today

I guess all this talk of opening up and taking risks worked. Unfortunately, it worked with the wrong person.

Spent all day yesterday hanging out with three friends. One is a couple, the other is my ex housemate. They sat on my sofa, he sat with me on my bed, and we all just watched Futurama, had a giggle, drank some beers and chilled.

I kept noticing him looking at me. There was something different about the energy between us. We were even saying stuff at the same time and then looking at each other and laughing that we are just so in sync.

The other two got up to leave at 10.30 and he didn't even try to make a move, which I didn't mind as I had no work today. We were chatting away some more, laughing, and then he lifted his arm so I could snuggle down into him.

Really tentatively at first, he starts little stroking motions on my arm. After a while, I respond in kind. The gentle contact is already making my heart flutter. We've been in bed together plenty of times recently and he's not made a move, so I don't know what made him go for it this time... like I said, something just felt different.

Off comes his shirt, then he's lifting the back of my top slightly and stroking my lower back. My skins gone completely tingly.

Now, I don't want to go into too much detail, but this leads to what I can only describe as the most love filled sexual experience of my life.

And we didn't even have sex!

Spoiler

(I mentioned before about the difficulties he has because of his meds

Just a heck of a lot of kissing, smushing together of bodies, holding, caressing, sweating, breathing... I was incredibly blown by it. I was both completely turned on and feeling all these loving feelings come rushing in all at once.

And once we'd both calmed down, we just lay there in blissful content, not saying a word, me tracing the line of his jaw, him kissing my forehead, stroking my hair and holding me tight to him.

And that content, wasn't from any kind of actual release. But just the contentment of knowing that the other person had responded. That they'd felt it too. That they enjoyed exploring you and just being intimate with you as much as you did with them. Just the bliss of that knowledge alone.

That just isn't something that's ever happened to me. Ever. I mean, he obviously feels SOME way about me... no one is like that with just any girl are they? You don't act like that with someone you've just used cause you're horny right

I have no idea what to do about it... well there's nothing I can do I guess...

He'll be gone by the end of the month. He knows it, and I know it. Why they hell this had to happen now, is just sod's law.

But i've spent the last three hours listening to disney love songs and crying

I KNEW love sucked. I bloody knew it, I knew there was a reason I stopped letting this happen!

I guess all I can hope, is that however many months it takes him in Thailand, that night sticks in his head. I hope that he doesn't get back with his ex while he's out there. And I hope that if I am still single, and still feel the way I do today, and he moves to Bristol like he said he is planning to do when he comes back, that I have the courage to see if this is something special

Hey, hey! This is not the place for that story!

We'll have no tales of guys picking up on the mood of the situation, making a move and having it pay-off in here, little Miss!

Have you missed the countless other relationship threads on here? This thread if for tales of "I really like her, maybe I should make move... but I can't... but maybe I should..." until the moment is gone and people are friendzoned for their gutless-wonder behaviour.

Stick to the program! No success stories that may breed hope, we're looking for tales which tread the wire-thin border between comedy and tragedy in terms of desperation!

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Hey, hey! This is not the place for that story!

We'll have no tales of guys picking up on the mood of the situation, making a move and having it pay-off in here, little Miss!

Have you missed the countless other relationship threads on here? This thread if for tales of "I really like her, maybe I should make move... but I can't... but maybe I should..." until the moment is gone and people are friendzoned for their gutless-wonder behaviour.

Stick to the program! No success stories that may breed hope, we're looking for tales which tread the wire-thin border between comedy and tragedy in terms of desperation!

How is 'too little too late' a success story?

It's a tragic cliche!

 

[Anita18]

I don't think a benevolent god would ever want anyone to be trapped in an unhappy marriage either.

She seems to be able to takecare of herself and her children even with the husband's absence. I have yet to grasp this whole "I'd be fine if he filed the papers" dilemma -- that happens a lot around India, and yes, I get it that religion becomes a major factor behind it, but if wedding vows are not respected mutually then they really have become redundant yes?

I think one way to inspire her to take action is to focus on the betterment of her children. Because it's downright unhealthy to be raised in that psuedo-family tie.

As for the father... well... again.

That's what I've been telling her! The wedding vows involve two people! If he refuses to support her, IMO the vows are already null and void! But she says she's not responsible for what he does, and she's insistent on keeping up her end of the bargain.

Her kids I think are fine. The daughter is too young to realize what's going on (she just turned 2) and the 6-y-o son still has a good relationship with his father. I think she's been trying to protect them from it all, which is a good thing. But if they're gonna continue treating each other like this, the kids ARE going to catch on and I'm sure it's gonna mess up their own future relationships if they interpret this kind of disrespecting marriage as normal. That is not right.

My bf's parents divorced when he was about her son's age. It was hectic for a while, and he lashed out at his parents for a bit (honestly, which teenage boy doesn't?), but everyone's cool now, and he has no obvious issues with trust or commitment or control. If we're gonna take the next step, I think I'll have to pick his brain more in premarital counseling to get the real nitty gritty, but from knowing him for 3 years in an intimate relationship, nothing on the surface says he's damaged. If anything, something clicked in him and he realized he really didn't want the kind of marriage his parents had. I'm pretty much the opposite of his mother in terms of temperament. I'm not sure he would have come to the same realization if all he knew was marriage-until-death-do-you-part-even-if-you-treat-me-like-utter-crap.

Unfortunately, no matter how long you've been somebody, people can change. And it's usually for the worst. Know many a couple that it becomes such a 180 degree change. A lot of times it is when the wife becomes pregnant and THEN something "snaps" with the husband and then he needs to go find themselves. Sometimes you really just don't know someone.

Oh, I have no doubt that happens. But I also believe that a marriage like that CAN work if they want it to. And it really does take two for that. Remember the vows you took, accept your partner as s/he is, for the past, present, and the future. And ya know, talk it out.

Although, I too would totally ditch my partner if his values changed completely and he became an extreme conservative who thinks I need to toil away in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant. Eff that noise!

GO HOPEFUL!

Seriously, stop feeling sad about it and just really, celebrate the hell away. You wanted it right? Right!?

Yes, he could change come Thailand, but so what? You felt the chemistry was right between the two of you now and he responded. That guy will remember it for the time he's away.

If anything, I'd say you tune up those Disney songs and par-tay.

Absolutely.

And for what it's worth, if it doesn't work out with this particular guy....well, it happened once. It will happen again. Probability is on your side!

That's what I told myself too when I was single after I broke up with my first bf. And it did happen again for me.

That may be true, but it doesn't nullify the fact that one doesn't really need to be in a relationship to be content with himself, or need to be in a relationship at all times. That would border on some sort of psychosis to be honest.

I'd put myself in both of your categories though. Because despite the fact that i was dating this girl for what... three weeks? I really did devote a lot in it emotionally, and then saw that it was pointless. Utterly pointless. So colour me skeptical but yeah, I think it's a lot better that I devote a good deal into developing myself, recovering my self-esteem, and maybe even see about starting that superheroic-vigilantism thing I've been promising myself since I was 8

Bottom line: Not interested in a relationship right now.

Am I bitter? Yes, a little bit. I didn't want this to happen, but it did. It's done. Let's move on.

Yeah, I call three weeks three dates, at the very most.

It's good that you realized you over-invested in the relationship. I don't think it's good enough reason to ditch the idea of relationships altogether, but if you think you need time to develop yourself, that's fair enough. But if an opportunity really does arise, it would be a shame to turn it down.

 

[Hound55]

How is 'too little too late' a success story?

It's a tragic cliche!

For this thread, that counts as a success story.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Hey, hey! This is not the place for that story!

We'll have no tales of guys picking up on the mood of the situation, making a move and having it pay-off in here, little Miss!

Have you missed the countless other relationship threads on here? This thread if for tales of "I really like her, maybe I should make move... but I can't... but maybe I should..." until the moment is gone and people are friendzoned for their gutless-wonder behaviour.

Stick to the program! No success stories that may breed hope, we're looking for tales which tread the wire-thin border between comedy and tragedy in terms of desperation!

^ You forgot "summoning up holy-guts and askin her out, but then feeling zero sizzle and twiddling thumbs with self in brooding self-spite" (was that right? I think that was... yeah I guess that's right).

How is 'too little too late' a success story?

It's a tragic cliche!

Epically tragic? Tragically epic? Aw shucks, you're doing good hopeful, if anything I learned that cliches are repeated so much coz they do... in fact... tend to recur A LOT in reality.

I'd enjoy them for what they are

That's what I've been telling her! The wedding vows involve two people! If he refuses to support her, IMO the vows are already null and void! But she says she's not responsible for what he does, and she's insistent on keeping up her end of the bargain.

Her kids I think are fine. The daughter is too young to realize what's going on (she just turned 2) and the 6-y-o son still has a good relationship with his father. I think she's been trying to protect them from it all, which is a good thing. But if they're gonna continue treating each other like this, the kids ARE going to catch on and I'm sure it's gonna mess up their own future relationships if they interpret this kind of disrespecting marriage as normal. That is not right.

Yup. And... I don't think 6-year-olds are as unaware of things as we think them to be. In fact, more often than not, they internalize these conflicts and it does have a nasty effect afterwards. Good friend of mine saw parents separating after a very, very nasty marriage (involving, among other things, the occasional assaults) and the 7-year-old kid sister, when she learned about the separation, was actually glad that it happened.

And this is coming from an uber-conservative, religiously-fundamentalist culture in a third-world country. Go figure.

Yeah, I call three weeks three dates, at the very most.

It's good that you realized you over-invested in the relationship. I don't think it's good enough reason to ditch the idea of relationships altogether, but if you think you need time to develop yourself, that's fair enough. But if an opportunity really does arise, it would be a shame to turn it down.

Well, to be fair it's not like I'm turning down dating altogether . I guess this whole thing helped me a lot in that area in that I'm less terrified at asking someone out now. BUT, the latter is more significant, to me at least.

A lot I need to work on, a lot of levels of confidence and self-esteem I need to revive, and of course, a lot of "reading people" skills I'll need to develop. All in all, no just not interested in a committed relationship. At least, not at the moment.

(though for the record, I still prefer hopeful's idealistic notion of "gradually falling for someone" than the interview-dating scene. Hey it worked out for her right? :P)

 

[Anita18]

Yup. And... I don't think 6-year-olds are as unaware of things as we think them to be. In fact, more often than not, they internalize these conflicts and it does have a nasty effect afterwards. Good friend of mine saw parents separating after a very, very nasty marriage (involving, among other things, the occasional assaults) and the 7-year-old kid sister, when she learned about the separation, was actually glad that it happened.

And this is coming from an uber-conservative, religiously-fundamentalist culture in a third-world country. Go figure.

Yeah I've basically given her an ultimatum - if he's still treating her like this 2 years from now, when the son is 8 and DEFINITELY catching on, she has to leave. It will be at the very least, her duty as a mother, screw her duty to God. (I don't think God would support the messing up of kids!) Give them a different POV while they're still malleable.

Good that the kid sister even realized that kind of marriage was not right! Sometimes you just don't know how a child will react growing up in a family like that.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

For this thread, that counts as a success story.

(though for the record, I still prefer hopeful's idealistic notion of "gradually falling for someone" than the interview-dating scene. Hey it worked out for her right? :P)

Pfft we don't know that yet. There are so many variables here.

1. He has a history of on occasion being a complete arse and putting me off him completely (though that may be the whole 'hate only comes from love' thing )
2. He's going to thailand, where his ex is, and in a beautiful setting like that, when i'm just a hazy memory halfway across the world... I bet they'll get back together
3. I'll be in another city hopefully by the time he gets back, and have a whole new life... he may not fit in that new life at all.
4. I may have read the whole situation wrong and it really was just some friend on friend comfort and he wouldn't actually ever want to go out with me at all... which is fine... that's what I expect... it's how i'm happy to pretend I am as well in order to save face

It'd be lovely if it for some reason did all work out. But he's by no means perfect. He's probably not even all that good for my life... we seem to want kind of different things.

See THIS is why I should not let my heart get carried away... sometimes it's NECCESARY to listen to your head.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

True... very.

Well, tell your heart one thing though: If he does turn 180 degrees, if your new life in the new town really doesn't have a place for him, if he really is bedazzled by Thailand of all places (yes it's exotic I get it, but y'know what? So's New York for me so shut it), then it's his loss .

Not yours.

Meantime. Cherish the fact that your emotions weren't misplaced this time. At least for now. If he comes back with the same devotion, then PERFECT. If he doesn't, well you'll still have a functioning life! He sounds like someone who really needs to get his act together, so let him figure it out on his own, while you do yours (with new town etc).

 

[hopefuldreamer]

True... very.

Well, tell your heart one thing though: If he does turn 180 degrees, if your new life in the new town really doesn't have a place for him, if he really is bedazzled by Thailand of all places (yes it's exotic I get it, but y'know what? So's New York for me so shut it), then it's his loss .

Not yours.

Meantime. Cherish the fact that your emotions weren't misplaced this time. At least for now. If he comes back with the same devotion, then PERFECT. If he doesn't, well you'll still have a functioning life! He sounds like someone who really needs to get his act together, so let him figure it out on his own, while you do yours (with new town etc).

This is all true.

However, I'm still listening to 'James Morrison - You give me something' and thinking how perfectly it fits...

And when I start looking for songs that fit the way I feel, i've got it bad

 

[Nave 'Torment']

^ Listen to Paranoid by Black Sabbath :P

 

[hopefuldreamer]

^ Listen to Paranoid by Black Sabbath :P

Ah, that's the stuff!

 

[Erzengel]

That may be true, but it doesn't nullify the fact that one doesn't really need to be in a relationship to be content with himself, or need to be in a relationship at all times. That would border on some sort of psychosis to be honest.

I'd put myself in both of your categories though. Because despite the fact that i was dating this girl for what... three weeks? I really did devote a lot in it emotionally, and then saw that it was pointless. Utterly pointless. So colour me skeptical but yeah, I think it's a lot better that I devote a good deal into developing myself, recovering my self-esteem, and maybe even see about starting that superheroic-vigilantism thing I've been promising myself since I was 8

Bottom line: Not interested in a relationship right now.

Am I bitter? Yes, a little bit. I didn't want this to happen, but it did. It's done. Let's move on.

I totally agree that one doesn't need to be in a relationship to be happy. And one should be in the right place to date.

But like I said, the whole "sour grapes" defense mechanism over a 3 week relationship, is pretty common and not something to give up on relationships.

They aren't meant to be easy.

 

[bullets]

I guess all I can hope, is that however many months it takes him in Thailand, that night sticks in his head. I hope that he doesn't get back with his ex while he's out there. And I hope that if I am still single, and still feel the way I do today, and he moves to Bristol like he said he is planning to do when he comes back, that I have the courage to see if this is something special

Well , enjoy it for the moment. It doesn't sound like a night he'll soon forget.

 

[Anubis]

He's in Thailand? A place where he can get all the sexy ladyboys he can get his filthy hands on? Good luck with that.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

So what would be the appropriate handling of Valentine's Day with someone you've only been on one date with?

I feel like, since it's only been one date, it wouldn't be appropriate to make too huge a deal out of the day. However, I feel like ignoring it altogether would be a mistake.

A female friend of mine said sending her a "Happy Valentine's Day" text would be an appropriate course of action. Doing something small like taking her out for ice cream or something.

Thoughts?

 

[Anita18]

Yeah one of those two would be appropriate. As you said, don't make a HUGE deal of it yet.

 

[Erzengel]

Well if you are going out, you really don't have to send the text.

 

[Dark Raven]

Yeah I've basically given her an ultimatum - if he's still treating her like this 2 years from now, when the son is 8 and DEFINITELY catching on, she has to leave. It will be at the very least, her duty as a mother, screw her duty to God. (I don't think God would support the messing up of kids!) Give them a different POV while they're still malleable.

Good that the kid sister even realized that kind of marriage was not right! Sometimes you just don't know how a child will react growing up in a family like that.

I think what your friend needs to realise is that the idea of not divorcing as prescribed by Jesus in the Bible is that it was in response to the common idea at the time that "anyone who divorces his wife must give a written notice of divorce." In other words, divorce was something that the Pharisees thought they could do at the drop of a hat as long as they gave a written notice of divorce, with that notice supposedly giving them carte blanche to do as they like, when they like.

Jesus' response then is more to emphasise the idea of commitment in a marriage than simply to prescribe that divorce is not acceptable. Note that in one gospel, Jesus talks about not divorcing except in the case of unfaithfulness. However, what does unfaithfulness in a marriage mean? Does it only mean that you are unfaithful in the sense of when we talk about "marital infidelity" where someone will have an affair with another? Or can unfaithfulness also mean not being faithful to one's marriage vows to love, cherish and honour the other in sickness and in health, for better for worse etc, even if you haven't had an affair?

So where a husband is verbally or physically abusive to his wife, is that not in one sense not being faithful to one's marriage vows? He is not showing a faithfulness to love her and cherish her but is mistreating her, even if he has never been with another woman.

I don't believe that couples should take divorce lightly, and should definitely try to work it out in counselling. Some couples divorce too quickly (but then they shouldn't have even gotten married in the first place without the proper foundations there). But what happens when a husband is beating his wife such that it becomes a physical danger to her life if she stays with him? Or what about, if she stays with him because she wants to remain faithful to the covenant made, but by staying he could actually have her commited to a mental institution or get rid of her himself somehow?

I used to think it was more black and white but have seen too much now to know that it is a very complex area and sometimes if you don't divorce you'll die. So what is better? Death or divorce?

And like I said, doesn't the fact that the husband is being abusive mean that he's being unfaithful? That in itself could even be interpreted to fall under the accepted Biblical grounds for divorce.

In the case of your friend, I'm not going to advocate divorce as the first resort. They should seek marriage counselling. However, again under the umbrella of "unfaithfulness", the question does arise as to whether your friend's husband is being "faithful" to his marriage vows by not supporting her or the children and not being invested in the relationship. So would that be grounds for divorce? It's difficult to say in your friend's case as she has to decide for herself ultimately.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

So what would be the appropriate handling of Valentine's Day with someone you've only been on one date with?

I feel like, since it's only been one date, it wouldn't be appropriate to make too huge a deal out of the day. However, I feel like ignoring it altogether would be a mistake.

A female friend of mine said sending her a "Happy Valentine's Day" text would be an appropriate course of action. Doing something small like taking her out for ice cream or something.

Thoughts?

I would just ignore it.