The Last Crusade of Relationships

[WillardNation]

Congrats!

I have continued to see the girl I went out with/hooked up with last week, even after I told her on Tuesday that I couldn't be her boyfriend and she replied by saying she never said she wanted me to be (which contradicts all of her actions up to, and kind of after, that point. I really think she was just trying to save face by saying that). We went out Friday night with her friends and had some fun. Although her friends refer to us as a couple and me as her boyfriend. Which she did correct every time. She came over and spent the night after and asked if it weirded me out when people referred to us as a couple and, since I was pretty drunk and had a naked girl in my bed, I responded with "No. I DO like you." Which isn't a lie but I also stand by my stance of anti-monogamous relationships.

The next night (last night), I met up with a bunch of friends for a friend's birthday and her and her friend came as well. I had a few drinks and was just having fun, dancing with numerous girls I knew and realized at one point that she left without saying anything. I text her as we went to eat after the bar closed and she said "she just wasn't feelin it so she went to go play pool at a friend's house" and some other stuff but sense she never even came up to me to say she was leaving, I think she may have just not liked that I wasn't dancing with and giving attention to girls that weren't her. She won't say that though because we already established that we won't do a relationship.

I talked to her today but it just consisted of small talk. Not really sure where it's going to go.

 

[Frodo]

Or she has low self-esteem and doesn't think she'll find anyone better. Neither are good reasons to want to break them up so you can have her instead.

:

This is good point. And to be ultimately, would it really be in someone's best interest to want her on the rebound, let alone a normal relationship anyway? If she's that troubled , she's got heartbreaker written all over her. .

 

[SpideyVille]

I finally talked to the girl that I liked. I told her that I've been trying to talk to her for the past week, but for some reason felt like I couldn't. She asked if I liked her and I asked if it was obvious. But she told me that she's been talking with someone and that she kinda knew I liked her and distanced herself on purpose so that she didn't lead me on. But she was waiting for me to come forward with it because she didn't want to assume I had feelings for her without being sure first.

But she also said I'm a cool guy and she still does want to see me after the show is over, and she even told me to text her in a few days so we can finally do those drawing lessons.

Overall, even though I didn't get the exact result I wanted, I'm satisfied. I mean sure, she gave me the "let's be friends" excuse, but honestly, that's really all that I wanted for now. I mentioned before how I was more scared of her saying yes if I asked her out because I wasn't too convinced that that is what I really wanted with her. I do feel like a huge weight has been lifted from my shoulders, especially since it wasn't really awkward with us after that part of the talk. Its like being able to open up about how I felt about her felt good and next time I will make sure to move faster. But now I finally feel like I can move on to the next girl.

 

[Anubis]

Good.

Also, stop being friends.

 

[The Apocalypse]

Yeah. You don't hangout with a girl you like who just wants to be friends. Those feelings don't go away, they just get stronger and you DON'T want to go through that.

 

[Anita18]

Barring any epic fail from this point forward, I think we may be in the process of another Relationship Thread success story.

My third date with the young lady consisted of a 4 hour dinner that included much discussion about a future as a couple, and ended with our first kiss. Both of us had nerves roaring after the fact, but we made future plans to go out again, and called it a night.

My friend is adamant that her and I are now "official", although I'm a tad hesitant to say that quite yet.

 

[SpideyVille]

Yeah. You don't hangout with a girl you like who just wants to be friends. Those feelings don't go away, they just get stronger and you DON'T want to go through that.

Yeah, I've learned this lesson the hard way. But for some reason, I feel like this might be different. I mean my feelings for her weren't too strong to begin with. At most, all I wanted was to spend some time with her, not necessarily date her. And knowing that there's someone else is a relief because I know not to have any high expectations, as well as the fact that I can strip myself of the pressure of trying to impress her. I know where I stand now and know I can move on to someone else. But I like the way this was resolved because I didn't leave with any resentment towards her or ill feelings.

But of course, I'm not going to be actively pursuing this friendship like I would had I thought I had a chance. I'll hit her up once or twice, but unless she responds, I'm not going to keep trying like I have in the past.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Yeah, I've learned this lesson the hard way. But for some reason, I feel like this might be different. I mean my feelings for her weren't too strong to begin with. At most, all I wanted was to spend some time with her, not necessarily date her. And knowing that there's someone else is a relief because I know not to have any high expectations, as well as the fact that I can strip myself of the pressure of trying to impress her. I know where I stand now and know I can move on to someone else. But I like the way this was resolved because I didn't leave with any resentment towards her or ill feelings.

But of course, I'm not going to be actively pursuing this friendship like I would had I thought I had a chance. I'll hit her up once or twice, but unless she responds, I'm not going to keep trying like I have in the past.

Be careful.

It -can- work. It can also end very, very badly.

I had a huge crush on this girl. She had a boyfriend, so I never made a move. Like you, I'm in the theatre department with her. She directed a show I was in, and we spent a lot of time together with the show, as well as outside the show, with cast dinners and stuff. Her and I became good friends.

She did say to me at one point that if she wasn't with her boyfriend, she'd probably like me too. She was a legit friend to me, so I was able to be "just friends" with her despite having a huge crush on her. It was the one instance in my life where having a crush on her didn't interfere with the friendship.

It doesn't happen very often tho. So just beware.

 

[RetrogradeOrbit]

In the heat of the moment a lot of things can get out of hand, especially if someone has started on you in your own home.

And at the end of the day, it's his fault for continuing to attack you. If someone is insistant on having a fight, they deserve the full brunt of what you can give back... Within reason. And since he's still alive, and only suffered minor injuries in the scale of things, I'm gonna side with SuperMike on this.

Sorry HS, but there is standing up for yourself and excessive force. Putting someone into hospital is the latter and doing it in front of their child, no matter what their age is totally out of order. Whether they deserved it or not.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Sorry HS, but there is standing up for yourself and excessive force. Putting someone into hospital is the latter and doing it in front of their child, no matter what their age is totally out of order. Whether they deserved it or not.

'Excessive force' is just a phrase that gets bad people off when really they should have to take the consequences of their actions.

This man viciously attacked someone in their own home, and is considered the victim because the attackee responded with 'excessive force'...

IMO excessive force in this situation would have been SuperMike grabbing the nearest kitchen knife, or going out the back for his shotgun. Or even giving him an actual beating... You know, where you hold him down and hit him over and over again... Yeah that would have been excessive.

A couple of swift and effective punches is not excessive force IMO.

I finally talked to the girl that I liked. I told her that I've been trying to talk to her for the past week, but for some reason felt like I couldn't. She asked if I liked her and I asked if it was obvious. But she told me that she's been talking with someone and that she kinda knew I liked her and distanced herself on purpose so that she didn't lead me on. But she was waiting for me to come forward with it because she didn't want to assume I had feelings for her without being sure first.

But she also said I'm a cool guy and she still does want to see me after the show is over, and she even told me to text her in a few days so we can finally do those drawing lessons.

Overall, even though I didn't get the exact result I wanted, I'm satisfied. I mean sure, she gave me the "let's be friends" excuse, but honestly, that's really all that I wanted for now. I mentioned before how I was more scared of her saying yes if I asked her out because I wasn't too convinced that that is what I really wanted with her. I do feel like a huge weight has been lifted from my shoulders, especially since it wasn't really awkward with us after that part of the talk. Its like being able to open up about how I felt about her felt good and next time I will make sure to move faster. But now I finally feel like I can move on to the next girl.

Glad you got it cleared up. At least now you know for sure

 

[RetrogradeOrbit]

'Excessive force' is just a phrase that gets bad people off when really they should have to take the consequences of their actions.

This man viciously attacked someone in their own home, and is considered the victim because the attackee responded with 'excessive force'...

IMO excessive force in this situation would have been SuperMike grabbing the nearest kitchen knife, or going out the back for his shotgun. Or even giving him an actual beating... You know, where you hold him down and hit him over and over again... Yeah that would have been excessive.

A couple of swift and effective punches is not excessive force IMO.

Er, hang on just a minute. Where did I say the father was the victim here?

Both parties were in the wrong. The father for starting the confrontation off and SuperMike for inflicting the kind of damage that put the guy in hospital. If you are a trained soldier (and my brother is one so I know what I am talking about) you can restrain someone without breaking jaws and ribs. Soldiers are trained to kill if they need to and that makes them a lethal weapon as much as a knife or a firearm.
Furthermore, an assault is an assault in the eyes of the law whether you hit someone once or a thousand times.
So the father is just as much in the wrong, as I have already said.

Legal definition of assault: Any unlawful and unpermitted touching of another person
So I could tap you on the shoulder and if you didn't like that you would be fully within your rights to report me to the police for assault.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Er, hang on just a minute. Where did I say the father was the victim here?

Both parties were in the wrong. The Father for starting the confrontation off and SuperMike for inflicting the kind of damage that put the guy in hospital. If you are a trained soldier (and my brother is one so I know what I am talking about) you can restrain someone without breaking jaws and ribs.
Furthermore, an assault is an assault in the eyes of the law whether you hit someone once or a thousand times.
So the father is just as much in the wrong, as I have already said.

Legal definition of assault: Any unlawful and unpermitted touching of another person
So I could tap you on the shoulder and if you didn't like that you would be fully within your rights to report me to the police for assault.

SuperMike wasn't trying to restrain him. I'm sure if the guy had swung for him and missed, or even hit him any where else, he would probably have done just that. A bit more calmly removed him from his home.

But that's not what happened. He hit out in blind rage after being punched in the nuts. It wasn't to subdue the guy, it was a retaliation, a 'you *******, you just hit me in the nuts' response.

All I'm saying is that I think that's fair play. I don't think you should punch a guy in the nuts, then complain cause he hit you back some...

That doesn't sound just to me.

And I didn't say YOU said he was a victim. I said he's been considered a victim. Obviously. He managed to get a court to rule that SuperMike should pay the medical bills, and as far as we've been told, he didn't get charged even though by your own quoted definition, he clearly committed an assault.

 

[RetrogradeOrbit]

America can be known for its "sue if you can" attitude. Perhaps that is why the father got part of his medical bills paid by SM.

But HS, let me ask you this;

Let's say a man has an affair. The husband finds out and confronts the adulterer. Fight ensues and the husband ends up in hospital for six weeks. The adulterer gets off completely, no fine or criminal record.

Is this okay with you? Did the husband "get what he deserved" because he started the fight?

BTW That is not a hypothetical situation, I knew the husband.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

America can be known for its "sue if you can" attitude. Perhaps that is why the father got part of his medical bills paid by SM.

But HS, let me ask you this;

Let's say a man has an affair. The husband finds out and confronts the adulterer. Fight ensues and the husband ends up in hospital for six weeks. The adulterer gets off completely, no fine or criminal record.

Is this okay with you? Did the husband "get what he deserved" because he started the fight?

You know, I was gonna point out the ridiculously obvious clear differences in the two cases...

But when it boils down to it, yes, I'd say he did.

If people are going to attempt to solve their problems by being violent, by attacking another man, then they need to accept the the consequence may be that they will LOOSE the fight. They will get HURT.

I mean, you don't go into a situation like that thinking 'Oh it'll be fine, I'll wail on him and he won't hit me back cause he's the one in the wrong.' And you don't go in thinking 'Oh it'll be fine, I'll wail on him and the police will understand cause he's the one in the wrong'.

You know full well what your getting yourself into as soon as you throw that first punch. And I have no respect for anyone who gets compensation for injuries they brought on themselves.

Whether the guy be someone who has slept with your wife, or in SuperMike's case, your daughter.

(On a side note, I think anger towards the other man, unless he is a friend of yours, is kind of unjustified anyway, especially as she may have not mentioned anything about you. Be mad at your wife, partner, daughter whatever... Don't be made at the guy who had NO IDEA that there was anything wrong it what he was doing.)

 

[RetrogradeOrbit]

You know, I was gonna point out the ridiculously obvious clear differences in the two cases...

I don't believe there is that much of a difference.
The father was enraged that his daughter was out having sex with a man she barely knew.
The husband was enraged that his wife was having an affair with a man he gave a job to and was a friend to.

What I mean is that neither were thinking clearly, the father (it seems to me) was trying to defend his daughter. The husband wanted revenge for the betrayal he received.
The husband has a clearer (and perhaps) an easier to understand motive.

(On a side note, I think anger towards the other man, unless he is a friend of yours, is kind of unjustified anyway, especially as she may have not mentioned anything about you. Be mad at your wife, partner, daughter whatever... Don't be made at the guy who had NO IDEA that there was anything wrong it what he was doing.)

I don't actually understand what you mean here...
But if it is what I think it is, at least the latter half. The adulterer was fully aware of the lady's status and in fact, He actually took a job offered to him by the husband and went on to befriend the husband to get better access to the wife.

BTW I am neither the husband or adulterer in this tale, I just happen to know them both.

I actually don't have anger towards the other man, although, and this is the similarity I draw, The adulterer should have had the capacity to restrain himself so as to not put the other guy in hospital for six weeks. He was a lot bigger and stronger than the husband. He knew the woman was married and as far as the morality of the situation is concerned, he was already completely in the wrong. And just because you can kick the crap out of someone, doesn't mean you should.
Or better still, he should not have chased after the guys wife in the first place. Of course the argument can also go so far as to include the wife, she should not have responded to the other man's advances in the first place.

Not sure where I am going with this... Maybe its "All people have the capacity to be idiots from time to time and perhaps should try to think for that split second before they act"?

 

[Nave 'Torment']

I finally talked to the girl that I liked. I told her that I've been trying to talk to her for the past week, but for some reason felt like I couldn't. She asked if I liked her and I asked if it was obvious. But she told me that she's been talking with someone and that she kinda knew I liked her and distanced herself on purpose so that she didn't lead me on. But she was waiting for me to come forward with it because she didn't want to assume I had feelings for her without being sure first.

But she also said I'm a cool guy and she still does want to see me after the show is over, and she even told me to text her in a few days so we can finally do those drawing lessons.

Overall, even though I didn't get the exact result I wanted, I'm satisfied. I mean sure, she gave me the "let's be friends" excuse, but honestly, that's really all that I wanted for now. I mentioned before how I was more scared of her saying yes if I asked her out because I wasn't too convinced that that is what I really wanted with her. I do feel like a huge weight has been lifted from my shoulders, especially since it wasn't really awkward with us after that part of the talk. Its like being able to open up about how I felt about her felt good and next time I will make sure to move faster. But now I finally feel like I can move on to the next girl.

Really glad to hear that you sorted that out mate.

Look, if she doesn't feel the same way it really doesn't matter does it? As you said, you can now move on. You can still be friends with her, again if she's willing and all, but you don't have to be like best friends with her or anything.

The thing about those feelings is that they do tend to linger. And it's best if you can spend them somewhere else.

Yeah, I've learned this lesson the hard way. But for some reason, I feel like this might be different. I mean my feelings for her weren't too strong to begin with. At most, all I wanted was to spend some time with her, not necessarily date her. And knowing that there's someone else is a relief because I know not to have any high expectations, as well as the fact that I can strip myself of the pressure of trying to impress her. I know where I stand now and know I can move on to someone else. But I like the way this was resolved because I didn't leave with any resentment towards her or ill feelings.

But of course, I'm not going to be actively pursuing this friendship like I would had I thought I had a chance. I'll hit her up once or twice, but unless she responds, I'm not going to keep trying like I have in the past.

Okay, good!

How did your show go btw?

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Not sure where I am going with this... Maybe its "All people have the capacity to be idiots from time to time

That we can agree on

I don't actually understand what you mean here...
But if it is what I think it is, at least the latter half. The adulterer was fully aware of the lady's status and in fact, He actually took a job offered to him by the husband and went on to befriend the husband to get better access to the wife.

BTW I am neither the husband or adulterer in this tale, I just happen to know them both.

If that is the case then I can certainly understand the man's anger.

But if that's the case, then it's a totally and completely different situation to the one SuperMike found himself in.

Both legally and morally, the girls father had no justification to assault SuperMike. He didn't even have a defendable reason too other than him being a testosterone pumped *****ebag of a controlling father who probably reacts with violence to a lot of situations.

Ergo, he got what he deserved.

If a man is attacking another man whose done something immoral and unjust, in the full knowledge of what they were doing and what might happen when they got 'found out'...

... Then it is THAT persons turn to deal with the consequences of THEIR actions. Because they have started this chain of consequences.

You may think I have a weird sense of justice... Maybe I do , I dunno.

Basically, SuperMike did not do the man any wrong. He didn't provoke an attack at all. So he should not be paying for medical bills for a man who attacked him just because he hit him back.

I don't believe there is that much of a difference.
The father was enraged that his daughter was out having sex with a man she barely knew.
What I mean is that neither were thinking clearly, the father (it seems to me) was trying to defend his daughter.

What kind of an example is a father setting by committing random acts of violence in the name of protectiveness.

That's not 'defending' your daughter. She wasn't in any need of defending. She was fine... Better than fine, she was having sex

He had no business being there.

If he was upset at her breaking the rules of his house, he should have done any of the following a) knocked on the door and apologised to SuperMike for the intrusion and told her off and told her to come with him now b) called her and demanded she come home immediately, c) scolded her when she arrived home the next day.

Arriving at a strangers house and kicking him in the nuts is NOT justified here.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

'Excessive force' is just a phrase that gets bad people off when really they should have to take the consequences of their actions.

This man viciously attacked someone in their own home, and is considered the victim because the attackee responded with 'excessive force'...

IMO excessive force in this situation would have been SuperMike grabbing the nearest kitchen knife, or going out the back for his shotgun. Or even giving him an actual beating... You know, where you hold him down and hit him over and over again... Yeah that would have been excessive.

A couple of swift and effective punches is not excessive force IMO.

eh, Super-Mike said he attacked the guy for about 30 seconds, now that doesn't sound like much, but sit still for 30 seconds, it feels like a long time, and that is a long time to be striking someone, what was he doing for those 30 seconds? Since the guy was hospitalised it sounds like more than two punches, or whatever kind of contact you are now trying to make out Mike gave out, that would be the minimal required for those injuries to his jaw and ribs. That type of sustained attack, and injuries, would come under excessive force/grevious bodily harm. I don't know how the law operates over there, but in the U.K. he would have got done for that, probably just fined though, depends on how bad it was, and the circumstances.

I'm not wanting to pile on the guy, he has had plenty of responses over this already, but let's not try to downplay this, you can frickin kill someone in an attack like that if you are strong enough. The bigger you are, the more trained you are, the more of a responsibility you have to control that power, ie your anger.
I have done crazy things in my life as well, but we have to recognise these things for what really happened, so they don't happen again.

 

[RetrogradeOrbit]

I'm not wanting to pile on the guy, he has had plenty of responses over this already, but let's not try to downplay this, you can frickin kill someone in an attack like that if you are strong enough. The bigger you are, the more trained you are, the more of a responsibility you have to control that power, ie your anger.
I have done crazy things in my life as well, but we have to recognise these things for what really happened, so they don't happen again.

That's exactly what I was trying to get at. I don't blame SM for his reaction, it was understandable and justified. It's the extent of the beating he gave out which I can't agree with.

 

[RetrogradeOrbit]

HS,

I see where you are coming from and in fact do agree with you on some points you made in your last post.

Fathers are weird animals when it comes to their daughters. I do not know what I would do to a boyfriend of my daughter if said boyfriend assaulted her.

BTW
I enjoyed the discussion we had even though we do not see all the items eye to eye t:

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Since the guy was hospitalised it sounds like more than two punches, or whatever kind of contact you are now trying to make out Mike gave out, that would be the minimal required for those injuries to his jaw and ribs. That type of sustained attack, and injuries, would come under excessive force/grevious bodily harm. I don't know how the law operates over there, but in the U.K. he would have got done for that, probably just fined though, depends on how bad it was, and the circumstances.

I'll let Mike tackle the question of how many punches (as I must admit that he didn't technically say, and I am basing my stance on this on the least possible retaliation scenario.

But would he have been convicted in the UK?

Well in having free health care (NHS), you don't often hear of people being made to pay medical bills. He might have been charged with assault, but equally so could the father have been. So perhaps the father could have been charged with ABH, and Mike with GBH, and Mike would have been given a few hundred pound fine and court costs.

That'd be my guess anyway. But I'm not a lawyer.

Just seen a lot of my friends get off scott free in similar situations. Although admittedly the last one got himself put on tag for 6 months.

But anyway, this was more about my personal opinion on right and wrong, and not the law.

HS,

I see where you are coming from and in fact do agree with you on some points you made in your last post.

Fathers are weird animals when it comes to their daughters. I do not know what I would do to a boyfriend of my daughter if said boyfriend assaulted her.

BTW
I enjoyed the discussion we had even though we do not see all the items eye to eye t:

Me too. Felt like a defense lawyer and the prosecution

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

I'll let Mike tackle the question of how many punches (as I must admit that he didn't technically say, and I am basing my stance on this on the least possible retaliation scenario.

But would he have been convicted in the UK?

Well in having free health care (NHS), you don't often hear of people being made to pay medical bills. He might have been charged with assault, but equally so could the father have been. So perhaps the father could have been charged with ABH, and Mike with GBH, and Mike would have been given a few hundred pound fine and court costs.

That'd be my guess anyway. But I'm not a lawyer.

Just seen a lot of my friends get off scott free in similar situations. Although admittedly the last one got himself put on tag for 6 months.

But anyway, this was more about my personal opinion on right and wrong, and not the law.

As I said, it depends on the assault and the circumstances, you can be ordered to pay a regular fine, and/or compensation to the guy.
I guess something similar happened to Mike, if he was ordered to pay the medical bills.

and if someone gives the amount of time the assault took, 30 seconds at his estimate, then I imagine that he would have more trouble putting a number on the amount of punches.
About 4 yrs ago I lost the rag at a friend of mine who had been pushing my button on a certain sensitive subject for years, and flew into a punching rage with him, I am a wee guy, and he was a big guy, so he only got a little bruise out of that one, and he did not fight back. He knew he'd went too far with that one for too long, but i still felt terrible about it, that was the only time i ever punched one of my friends.

But, I cannot put a number on the amount of punches I gave him, and I'd say that was for about ten seconds I was punching him, y'know, one got in to his face, but he put his guard up, he was bigger than me, so luckily it was not a bad one.

 

[RetrogradeOrbit]

Me too. Felt like a defense lawyer and the prosecution

 

[Anita18]

eh, Super-Mike said he attacked the guy for about 30 seconds, now that doesn't sound like much, but sit still for 30 seconds, it feels like a long time, and that is a long time to be striking someone, what was he doing for those 30 seconds? Since the guy was hospitalised it sounds like more than two punches, or whatever kind of contact you are now trying to make out Mike gave out, that would be the minimal required for those injuries to his jaw and ribs. That type of sustained attack, and injuries, would come under excessive force/grevious bodily harm. I don't know how the law operates over there, but in the U.K. he would have got done for that, probably just fined though, depends on how bad it was, and the circumstances.

I was gonna say, as someone who often sits by a timer waiting for 30 secs to count down, it's a LONG time. I wouldn't be surprised if a well-trained man got in 10-15 punches in in that time. And that would be a sustained attack. 1-2 punches as retaliation would take 5 seconds max. 30 seconds of assault = major anger issues.

Dunno why we're still arguing about this. Obviously a judge agreed with everyone here aside from hopefulsuicide and SuperMike.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

eh, Super-Mike said he attacked the guy for about 30 seconds, now that doesn't sound like much, but sit still for 30 seconds, it feels like a long time, and that is a long time to be striking someone, what was he doing for those 30 seconds? Since the guy was hospitalised it sounds like more than two punches, or whatever kind of contact you are now trying to make out Mike gave out, that would be the minimal required for those injuries to his jaw and ribs. That type of sustained attack, and injuries, would come under excessive force/grevious bodily harm. I don't know how the law operates over there, but in the U.K. he would have got done for that, probably just fined though, depends on how bad it was, and the circumstances.

I'm not wanting to pile on the guy, he has had plenty of responses over this already, but let's not try to downplay this, you can frickin kill someone in an attack like that if you are strong enough. The bigger you are, the more trained you are, the more of a responsibility you have to control that power, ie your anger.

I have done crazy things in my life as well, but we have to recognise these things for what really happened, so they don't happen again.

You sound like the guys attorney. Man, I love Lawyers.

No, I said "LESS THAN" 30 seconds. Just to make the point it was not like I had a lot of time to go over every action that carefully.

I tackled him off my deck, and hit him in the face a few times. I don't know how many, I was not keeping count.

His ribs broke from the force of landing on his back from a 4ft drop with a heavy man on top of him.

Part of the reason I had to pay a chunk of his medical bills was because of my income level. Discrimination if I've ever seen it.