The Lord of the Advice: The Two Towering Relationships thread

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It's fine if you don't want to answer this and I'm not sure if this is something you already asked her BUT, does she ever "double click" the mouse?

For someone to be comfortable with other people, they have to be somewhat comfortable with themselves.

You mentioned she did have a boyfriend but it really sounds if any intimacy happened, she was just really uncomfortable about it.
 
It's fine if you don't want to answer this and I'm not sure if this is something you already asked her BUT, does she ever "double click" the mouse?

For someone to be comfortable with other people, they have to be somewhat comfortable with themselves.

You mentioned she did have a boyfriend but it really sounds if any intimacy happened, she was just really uncomfortable about it.

I had a friend who was very Christian. He said he never *********ed, but from what his brother told me he did it furiously and kept it very private.

I swear some posters on here have "Phantom Girlfriends" too. I see a lot of "my girlfriend doesn't let me *********e" or "my girlfriend is jealous of my hand". Whenever I read that stuff I think "wait, you have a girlfriend and you still have to use your hand?" :huh:
 
Well, I'm wondering if she just has 0 sex drive. Which is possible, a lot of people just are pretty much asexual. Maybe she got with Nell because of some sort of social expectation.
 
Well, I'm wondering if she just has 0 sex drive. Which is possible, a lot of people just are pretty much asexual. Maybe she got with Nell because of some sort of social expectation.
It just seems to me like Nell is just repeating his same mistakes, albeit this time with a girl who will actually date him probably, like you say, because her problem with physical intimacy (she's afraid to give it) mirrors Nell's problem with physical intimacy (he struggles to get it). There's probably no real pressure from Nell to get physical. You or I or Anubis or WillardNation probably all would've been more pushy, and probably been more direct, and certainly would be more experienced. All that might have scared her off, or caused her to rethink her position.
 
I knew by answering hopeful's question, my answer was going to be misinterpreted and my situation was going to be judged on here, and honestly, that's why I avoided answering it the first time. This really is a matter of I can't accurately put into words how I feel about her (in regards to the "love" question), because the only way I know how to word it gets interpreted the way it did, and that's not accurate to how I feel about the situation.

I'm sure you like this girl a lot, and it's very possible that you may fall in love with her down the line.

What sort of hit me though, is how odd it is to keep coming on here and saying 'She's still not putting out' as though that's a surprise or a problem you didn't know about, or something you're expecting to change soon.

I mean, you KNOW she doesn't want to do anything intimate until she's ready. And she's not going to be ready until those feelings are definitely evolved. Right now you're still just getting to know each other. When you've exchanged 'I love you's', THEN you can complain she's still not putting out :funny:

And since you're not sure about your feelings yet, why is it surprising that you haven't slept with her yet? Seems like she's been pretty clear about the fact it's not going to happen for a long ways down the road.

So you've either gotta accept that and wait a really really long time, or move on.

There's no point spending all this time with her tapping your metaphorical relationship clock and constantly focusing on 'when's it gonna happen' 'when's it gonna happen'.

It's fine to try and get her to open up to you, perhaps just be a little bit more comfortable with one another, and maybe even try some slightly sexual activities if she feels okay with it though :)
 
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I don't know, there are definitely ways to interpret a situation.

First off, obviously you stay in a relationship not just for what she can give you, but the happiness you feel when you can give her something as well.

And what do you mean by keeping you at a distance? I thought things are hunky-dory in terms of getting along personality-wise. That's really the most important thing - you have to accept her as she is, personally, before you decide if the lack of intimacy is going to be an important factor.

Bumping uglies isn't hard. Ask Anubis. :funny: What's hard is getting so close to someone, that you can ask them uncomfortable questions about themselves and dig in deep, and they don't hate you for it and even give you honest answers. That has nothing to do with sex.

On one hand, you really want to be more physical and the lack of intimacy is going to be a sticking point even if you care about her, but on the other hand, how much do you really want to be with her (and how special is she to you really) if you're willing to leave if she's unable, for whatever reason, to give you some? It's a legitimate question, and there are no right or wrong ways to go about it. Acknowledging that you have physical needs and saying "no thanks" to an otherwise good relationship is something you could do, but if you do that, you also have to acknowledge that what you had non-physically wasn't really as special to you as you think it is...

Which doesn't have to be wrong. It just has to be a possibly-uncomfortable truth.

The not bumping uglies ultimately isn't what I have a problem with - it's a symptom of a larger problem in the relationship.

My friend came in from out of town yesterday, and we met for lunch. As we were catching up, he was asking me about my girlfriend, and of course I was telling him the situation. He asked me straight up "Could you wait for marriage to have sex with her if everything else - the intimacy and affection, the spark, the way you guys got along - if it was all great?" and my answer was yes, I think I could.

But that's what leads to the bigger problem is that while I am attracted to her intelligence and her personality, and we do get along, there's the whole thing that I don't feel like she is prioritizing the relationship in any meaningful way, and that's what I mean by keeping a distance.

Any and all contact is initiated by me. If we don't see each other for days, there's no communication in between. There's no texting or phone conversations. If I try to text her, I don't hear from her for hours upon hours on end. Seriously, I could text her in the morning, and not hear from her until late that evening. In response to a text message.

The problem that I talked about previously with her giving me the "co-dependency issues" talk when I told her that I want to spend more time with her and talk to her more often. The last time I saw her - which was a week ago at this point - I even told her it's not necessarily the not seeing her that bugs me, I can exist on my own without needing her there to validate my existence, but it'd be nice to know that she misses me as much as I miss her, or that she wants to see me as much as I want to see her. I feel like it's an "out of sight, out of mind" situation where if I'm not there, I'm not on her mind, and she's not going to take the time to initiate contact with me to want to see me, or want to talk to me.

And that's ultimately what I mean by her keeping me at a distance, and if this is something that doesn't change, I can't be in a relationship like that. I don't feel like a priority to her, I don't feel like she misses me, ultimately I don't really feel like she cares all that much.

We get along great when we're together, but when we're not, there's nothing.

That's what I mean by I would fall in love with her if things changed - if she actually acted like she was in a relationship. But as it is, she doesn't.

And despite Optimus' conspiracies that she's out boinking everything else that moves that's more aggressive in wanting sex, no I don't believe it to be anything malicious on her end. I think she is just so young, inexperienced, and naive that she simply put doesn't know how to be in a relationship, and unfortunately I'm caught in the crossfire of her trying to figure out what the relationship means to her.

Yea, it's frustrating, and yea, Optimus would have been out by now, I get all that, but for me being in the situation, and having my own take on what I feel the situation to be, I don't feel that leaving is the right course of action - yet. I still feel that this is something that can be resolved, and if it is resolved, I feel it will be worth waiting for, and far better than what I could get from some girl out there that would put out far easier, but probably wouldn't offer me anything else beyond being good in bed. I would rather wait, and see if this is an issue that can be resolved, and stick it out with her, than to move on to something else that won't give me what she does.

And if it can't be resolved, if this is just how it's gonna be, then no hard feelings, we move on, we gave it a shot, but it just wasn't meant to be.

While I realize that is a very real possibility, and honestly the one that I expect in the end of it all, I haven't yet reached the point where that is the direction I want to take.

In response to Optimus talking about guys who are more direct and aggressive, I'm not sure how much more direct and aggressive I need to be with her. I have flat out told her I'm not into waiting until marriage for sex, I have flat out told her I want our relationship to become sexual eventually, and physically, I have taken the initiative to touch her, hold her, and kiss her more passionately than a peck, things that she has resisted nearly every step of the way. I'm not sure how much more direct I'm supposed to get, while still trying to maintain a level of respect for her, than what I'm currently doing - which I'm not going to go into full detail about all the physical things I do do to her when I am trying to be physical and affectionate with her.
 
I'm sure you like this girl a lot, and it's very possible that you may fall in love with her down the line.

What sort of hit me though, is how odd it is to keep coming on here and saying 'She's still not putting out' as though that's a surprise or a problem you didn't know about, or something you're expecting to change soon.

I mean, you KNOW she doesn't want to do anything intimate until she's ready. And she's not going to be ready until those feelings are definitely evolved. Right now you're still just getting to know each other. When you've exchanged 'I love you's', THEN you can complain she's still not putting out :funny:

And since you're not sure about your feelings yet, why is it surprising that you haven't slept with her yet? Seems like she's been pretty clear about the fact it's not going to happen for a long ways down the road.

So you've either gotta accept that and wait a really really long time, or move on.

There's no point spending all this time with her tapping your metaphorical relationship clock and constantly focusing on 'when's it gonna happen' 'when's it gonna happen'.

It's fine to try and get her to open up to you, perhaps just be a little bit more comfortable with one another, and maybe even try some slightly sexual activities if she feels okay with it though :)

That last "my girlfriend still isn't putting out" was a jestful response to you trying to change the subject off of Godzilla2000, cuz you said she was derailing the thread. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously. The response to everything else can be found in my above post.

:)
 
In response to Optimus talking about guys who are more direct and aggressive, I'm not sure how much more direct and aggressive I need to be with her. I have flat out told her I'm not into waiting until marriage for sex, I have flat out told her I want our relationship to become sexual eventually, and physically, I have taken the initiative to touch her, hold her, and kiss her more passionately than a peck, things that she has resisted nearly every step of the way. I'm not sure how much more direct I'm supposed to get, while still trying to maintain a level of respect for her, than what I'm currently doing - which I'm not going to go into full detail about all the physical things I do do to her when I am trying to be physical and affectionate with her.
You mentioned in previous posts that she's "improved"?
 
That last "my girlfriend still isn't putting out" was a jestful response to you trying to change the subject off of Godzilla2000, cuz you said she was derailing the thread. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously. The response to everything else can be found in my above post.

:)

I know it was in jest, but the sex issue hasn't only been mentioned in that one post :p

I think it's lovely that you're willing to wait, like I said before, I think you're being a very good boyfriend. And I appreciate that you really like this girl and get on very well. It's a shame you aren't getting more positive reassurance from her that it's going to be worth it... and by that I mean just some enthusiasm.

I mean, the fact that her initiating meeting up was cause for a post a while back, says a lot about how little you feel she has invested in this relationship.

Do you think there's any physical chemistry there? Has any kiss or touch you've had (as rare as they might be) produced any sparks, any lingering moments... or has it always been uncomfortable, unreciprocated or reluctant?

I guess a good follow up question to the 'Do you love her?' question, would be 'Do you have any indication how she feels about you?'
 
In response to Optimus talking about guys who are more direct and aggressive, I'm not sure how much more direct and aggressive I need to be with her. I have flat out told her I'm not into waiting until marriage for sex, I have flat out told her I want our relationship to become sexual eventually, and physically, I have taken the initiative to touch her, hold her, and kiss her more passionately than a peck, things that she has resisted nearly every step of the way. I'm not sure how much more direct I'm supposed to get, while still trying to maintain a level of respect for her, than what I'm currently doing - which I'm not going to go into full detail about all the physical things I do do to her when I am trying to be physical and affectionate with her.
YOU ARE acting like a whiney co-dependent. That's nothing like me.

Look, last girl I was dating was this law student and I like to cuddle after sex. Whenever she would not or was being stand off-ish I would turn my back to her and say "whatever". Then she'd *sigh* and be like "oh wait, no, I'm sorry". It's a real cheap ploy, but it illustrates the problem you have:

When someone is behaving in a way that upsets you, trying harder validates their behavior.

You hear it on message boards. Ignore the trolls, right? Because everytime you go at them more they just get more troll-ish. Same thing applies. Everytime you try to touch her, try to talk about it, make it an issue constantly, text her when she can't be bothered to you make it all about her, which only makes her more stubborn. Be like "look, this isn't going to work with you not touching me", or just don't text her for a while, or don't kiss her, don't try to hug her. Be less physical with her. You make people feel really confined if you come at them all the time.

If all you do is go to her, there is nothing for her to change to keep you around.
 
The not bumping uglies ultimately isn't what I have a problem with - it's a symptom of a larger problem in the relationship.

My friend came in from out of town yesterday, and we met for lunch. As we were catching up, he was asking me about my girlfriend, and of course I was telling him the situation. He asked me straight up "Could you wait for marriage to have sex with her if everything else - the intimacy and affection, the spark, the way you guys got along - if it was all great?" and my answer was yes, I think I could.

But that's what leads to the bigger problem is that while I am attracted to her intelligence and her personality, and we do get along, there's the whole thing that I don't feel like she is prioritizing the relationship in any meaningful way, and that's what I mean by keeping a distance.

Any and all contact is initiated by me. If we don't see each other for days, there's no communication in between. There's no texting or phone conversations. If I try to text her, I don't hear from her for hours upon hours on end. Seriously, I could text her in the morning, and not hear from her until late that evening. In response to a text message.

The problem that I talked about previously with her giving me the "co-dependency issues" talk when I told her that I want to spend more time with her and talk to her more often. The last time I saw her - which was a week ago at this point - I even told her it's not necessarily the not seeing her that bugs me, I can exist on my own without needing her there to validate my existence, but it'd be nice to know that she misses me as much as I miss her, or that she wants to see me as much as I want to see her. I feel like it's an "out of sight, out of mind" situation where if I'm not there, I'm not on her mind, and she's not going to take the time to initiate contact with me to want to see me, or want to talk to me.

And that's ultimately what I mean by her keeping me at a distance, and if this is something that doesn't change, I can't be in a relationship like that. I don't feel like a priority to her, I don't feel like she misses me, ultimately I don't really feel like she cares all that much.

We get along great when we're together, but when we're not, there's nothing.

That's what I mean by I would fall in love with her if things changed - if she actually acted like she was in a relationship. But as it is, she doesn't.

And despite Optimus' conspiracies that she's out boinking everything else that moves that's more aggressive in wanting sex, no I don't believe it to be anything malicious on her end. I think she is just so young, inexperienced, and naive that she simply put doesn't know how to be in a relationship, and unfortunately I'm caught in the crossfire of her trying to figure out what the relationship means to her.

Yea, it's frustrating, and yea, Optimus would have been out by now, I get all that, but for me being in the situation, and having my own take on what I feel the situation to be, I don't feel that leaving is the right course of action - yet. I still feel that this is something that can be resolved, and if it is resolved, I feel it will be worth waiting for, and far better than what I could get from some girl out there that would put out far easier, but probably wouldn't offer me anything else beyond being good in bed. I would rather wait, and see if this is an issue that can be resolved, and stick it out with her, than to move on to something else that won't give me what she does.

And if it can't be resolved, if this is just how it's gonna be, then no hard feelings, we move on, we gave it a shot, but it just wasn't meant to be.

While I realize that is a very real possibility, and honestly the one that I expect in the end of it all, I haven't yet reached the point where that is the direction I want to take.

In response to Optimus talking about guys who are more direct and aggressive, I'm not sure how much more direct and aggressive I need to be with her. I have flat out told her I'm not into waiting until marriage for sex, I have flat out told her I want our relationship to become sexual eventually, and physically, I have taken the initiative to touch her, hold her, and kiss her more passionately than a peck, things that she has resisted nearly every step of the way. I'm not sure how much more direct I'm supposed to get, while still trying to maintain a level of respect for her, than what I'm currently doing - which I'm not going to go into full detail about all the physical things I do do to her when I am trying to be physical and affectionate with her.
That's a basic values/respect issue, one that I mentioned before.

My bf doesn't usually have his phone on. If I call him, it'll probably be a day before he replies, because he rarely checks his voicemail. He'll check his email more often, but it's maybe like, twice a day. This is vastly more hands-off than my first relationship was, and I think more healthy for me personally.

The difference is that sometimes he DOES call, just to say hi. It's only once a week or so, but the thing is that it's random, so it's a surprise every time, and it tells me that he's thinking of me even though he doesn't say "I miss you so much." We support each other, we're not co-dependent. :yay:

You want something more hands-on, and for whatever reason, she refuses to give it to you. So you have to tell her exactly what you've told us - that you don't feel like you're on her radar at all when you're not together, and that makes you feel unimportant in her life. These are not trivial things, and a partner who poo-poos those kinds of feelings will not be a good partner for long-term.

If she still busts out the "co-dependent" excuse or otherwise ignores your concerns, you've got a really stubborn, immature teenager on your hands. :oldrazz: And you'll either have to live with it, or live without her.
 
YOU ARE acting like a whiney co-dependent. That's nothing like me.

Look, last girl I was dating was this law student and I like to cuddle after sex. Whenever she would not or was being stand off-ish I would turn my back to her and say "whatever". Then she'd *sigh* and be like "oh wait, no, I'm sorry". It's a real cheap ploy, but it illustrates the problem you have:

When someone is behaving in a way that upsets you, trying harder validates their behavior.

You hear it on message boards. Ignore the trolls, right? Because everytime you go at them more they just get more troll-ish. Same thing applies. Everytime you try to touch her, try to talk about it, make it an issue constantly, text her when she can't be bothered to you make it all about her, which only makes her more stubborn. Be like "look, this isn't going to work with you not touching me", or just don't text her for a while, or don't kiss her, don't try to hug her. Be less physical with her. You make people feel really confined if you come at them all the time.

If all you do is go to her, there is nothing for her to change to keep you around.
Unfortunately, that ploy doesn't work for long-term relationships. :funny: If something's bothering you, you clear the air right away. There is no "getting back" at people or playing those kinds of games. That only works for immature people you only want to date until the resentment piles up (which it will, if you don't talk things out) and then you break up with them, to move on to the next girl.

Even my BOSS gave me that tip, it's the one secret he learned "for relationships you want to last more than 15 years." :funny:

Then again, it may not apply to Nell if he's not thinking that long-term anyway. :oldrazz: I'm getting married, so it's kind of a concern with me. And you obviously didn't last with the law student, so...yeah.

BTW, internet trolls only act that way on the internet. You can't apply online troll psychology to real-life interactions, because people really dislike face-to-face confrontation and will act completely different.
 
Unfortunately, that ploy doesn't work for long-term relationships.
He's not in one yet though. I mean whether he intends it to be or not, you're relationship at your point is a whole hell of a lot different. The reason you can talk things out is because you have a general understanding of each other. Moreover, you guys have been together way longer. Also, frankly, she's not being mature.

As for the Troll thing. Yes, you can. You ignore people who give you a ton of sh**. You don't sit them down and talk it out, because if they wanted to talk it out they'd stop being passive aggressive, and the only way they'll reach that is if the object their trying to provoke no longer gives them a reaction. I can't tell you how many scenarios I apply that to and it works. People hate being strung along, and moreover they hate talk. So no, you cannot talk someone to death, which is what Nell is doing. I'm guessing if you talked to your boyfriend and saw no change or no compromise you would just keep talking to him until he finally came around.
I'm getting married, so it's kind of a concern with me. And you obviously didn't last with the law student, so...yeah.
You are fortunate to have one relationship, because that's not typically how it works. I would be careful how you depict other's failures. Sure, that may have not been the longest, but by the same token, I'm way more particular than you, and in no rush to get married, doesn't mean I'm immature. It also doesn't mean we'd "work" for the same reason you didn't work with another guy. I've seen relationships work much longer than yours that were way more bizzare in terms of partner behavior, and I've also seen a lot fail that seem destined to work.

As for the law student. I'd be willing to bet my cuddling had nothing to do with it. Her friend made an off hand comment to me that she ran hot and cold, and tended to push guys away upon getting close...and that's basically what happened. She just got lost in her studies and we barely made much contact. She and I still speak though and have talked about doing more together, but I'm skeptical about doing too much with her because she recoiled the first time. Now that Law School is over we've been talking more...so, we'll see. I am dating someone else, so, I mean there's that right now too.
 
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He's not in one yet though. I mean whether he intends it to be or not, you're relationship at your point is a whole hell of a lot different. The reason you can talk things out is because you have a general understanding of each other. Moreover, you guys have been together way longer. Also, frankly, she's not being mature.

As for the Troll thing. Yes, you can. You ignore people who give you a ton of sh**. You don't sit them down and talk it out, because if they wanted to talk it out they'd stop being passive aggressive, and the only way they'll reach that is if the object their trying to provoke no longer gives them a reaction. I can't tell you how many scenarios I apply that to and it works. People hate being strung along, and moreover they hate talk. So no, you cannot talk someone to death, which is what Nell is doing. I'm guessing if you talked to your boyfriend and saw no change or no compromise you would just keep talking to him until he finally came around.
Oh, I absolutely agree that she's not being mature. I just don't believe in stooping to their level. My coworker and her husband play those kinds of games with each other. Ignoring each other when they're mad, but the thing is, nobody gives in! They HATE each other's guts, and I'm sure will be divorcing with a lot of drama as soon as she finishes schooling and moves closer to him so their kids don't have to travel far to visit him. Sometimes someone just has to be the friggin' adult, ya know?

If I was dealing with a real-life troll, I'd turn my back on them and no longer have them in my life. :cwink: I just don't have the energy to play those kinds of games and have that kind of drama. But YMMV. Some people can most certainly tolerate that more than I can.

And if my bf refused to change or compromise on something that was really important to me, I'd either leave him or shut up and live with it. There's only so much "talking" you can do. Twice is my unofficial limit.

We're just not sure how much talking Nell has been doing with his gf on this thing. If it's more than 5 times with no compromise or change...yeah, you just gotta say that she just isn't the girl for you. She doesn't even respect you, in such a case.

You are fortunate to have one relationship, because that's not typically how it works. I would be careful how you depict other's failures. Sure, that may have not been the longest, but by the same token, I'm way more particular than you, and in no rush to get married, doesn't mean I'm immature. It also doesn't mean we'd "work" for the same reason you didn't work with another guy. I've seen relationships work much longer than yours that were way more bizzare in terms of partner behavior, and I've also seen a lot fail that seem destined to work.
I didn't mean that you were immature with how you live your life, just that it's immature behavior to pull in what someone considers a serious relationship. :funny:
 
It seems we seem to rehashing the same thing.

For a lot of us in 2 1/2 months, we've already established a level of intimacy that we would be comfortable with.

Nell, if he had his way would have probably had sex by now.

I originally didn't have an issue with her wanting to wait. But the more and more Nell describes it, it seems like such an uphill battle. She wants to wait until marriage for sex, she stated that she doesn't enjoy physical intimacy as she doesn't seem good with it, and now he's saying she's giving him co-dependency speeches? It just really seems that you aren't compatible in an intimate setting.

And maybe you can explain how there's been improvements?
 
Is it possible to like someone without wanting a relationship or something sexual/physical with them?
 
Is it possible to like someone without wanting a relationship or something sexual/physical with them?
 
I agree with Erzengel. Ultimately, I just wouldn't be here. There are women I like, that I think like me but we never established this or that consistently, consequently I'm dating someone else. So, to repeat what was just said, Nell certainly seems like, if he had his way, would've had sex by now. So I don't get it, I'd move on.
 
I think in certain cases, yes. It's just rare.

Yes. It's called friendship.
I guess I'll give some more context here. I've mentioned how I had this best friend who I sort of liked, but I enjoyed the friendship more and wouldn't do anything to jeopardize it. But this past week, I constantly found myself getting upset because she did not come to see my show, which was a huge deal for me, even after she promised on a nightly basis that she would come.

It got to the point where one of my friends asked why I was so upset that she didn't come, but not as upset at other people who hadn't showed up either. I kept coming up with reasons that revolved around the friendship and how important she was too me and stuff. But today I realized it was more because I liked her and I was more upset because I felt like she let me down and didn't think my show was as important as I did. But the more I think about it, the more I realize that I like her, its not necessarily in the sense of wanting a relationship or something physical with her, but more in the sense of just wanting her around, since I haven't really seen her much lately. And now I'm just wondering what is it that I truly want from her.
 
Do you think it's possible for a relationship to be successful again after someone has cheated?

A lot of my friends have gone through 'on/off' relationships that have been a rollercoaster, and I can't help looking at it and thinking that it should have just ended the first time someone strayed. It would have saved a lot of pain - and not just for the people in the relationship, but everyone around them too.

But would you ever give a guy/girl a second chance? Is it ever worth it? Or is it always just prolonging the inevitable?
 
As much as we both joke about cheating, I'm not sure if that act would be forgivable at least for us. I think there would be no forgiveness there especially if it's sex. If it's just a kiss, maybe.

But, Hopeful, I think the reason a lot of your friends keep getting back together is a product of being from a small town? :huh:

A lot of people I stopped seeing I haven't seen in years. And one of them works in a town over from where I use to live.
 
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