Gotham The Man Before The Smile

I don't necessarily see evil as a factor in The Joker's character. Evil is born of petty things, fear, greed, selfishness, etc. The Joker is bigger than that. He's something much more primal and terrible than evil. He's "not right." I get a sort of Lovecraft vibe off of, him, if that makes sense.

 

Was it confirmed that the comedian in the script iO9 leaked was the guy who eventually becomes the Joker? I mean, that was my first thought when I heard there was a comedian there but it might be nothing.

Anyway, I do think it would be cool to have a pre-Joker character in the show, although I've always felt the Joker should be around the same age as Batman. While Batman '89 got away with making him older, I like the idea that the Joker can (at times) be somewhat of a physical threat to Batman.

Anyway, if they do show a pre-Joker character, I'd prefer him to not be a hardened criminal. I believe he should be an outsider... someone new to Gotham with no ties to the city whose previous life gets destroyed and who is born anew as the ultimate id.

One of the things that bugs me about Batman '89 is that Bruce knows right off the bat that the Joker is Napier because he recognizes him. I much prefer the Joker's past to be a blank slate to Batman and the cops. I remember this one comic years and years ago where Batman is standing front of the Bat Computer researching the Joker and all of the screens are flashing things like "IDENTITY UNKNOWN." I think that's one of the strongest aspects of the Joker's character... despite being the world's greatest detective, Batman has no idea who he is. I think it's okay if WE know his origin and who he was before he became the Joker... but Batman shouldn't know. That provides an interesting piece of frustration for the Dark Knight.

 

This would be my choice, no origin. Just do what Joker does turn up f##k sh#t up and leave t:

 

Why can't they go with the fantastic old Killing Joke origin? I love how it makes you sort of pity the joker. I don't think he necessarily had to have had a psychological issue until the acid incident. Like the reason we know nothing about his origin is because he used to be so damn unassuming! Then it was a sudden turn of events that drove him insane.

 

I think some people (myself included) don't really want to pity the Joker. It also seems to kind of pull the Jokers more esoteric skills out of nowhere.

Also, there's probably a few like me whose first Joker origin was the bit in Mask of the Phantasm. Seeing the Joker as a dangerous, creepy, and scary guy who got worse kind of makes him cooler. Similar to the Zero Year Origin.

 

I don't want to see a man become the Joker while Bruce is still a boy. In fact, I don't want to see the Joker appear before Bruce Wayne is Batman.

The other rogues they're using are fine, but I do feel that the Joker shouldn't exist without Batman.

 

i really just want Jack Napier. not Joker.

 

It's "I don't hate you because I am crazy. I am crazy because I hate you."

I don't think the Joker should appear. Joker's not the Joker without Batman. Although if he does appear I want it to be in the final episode as the final case. Or there could be multiple cases like the failed comedian or Jack Napier and we don't know which one becomes the Joker and neither does he. "If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

 

^ BINGO couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Ideally, in my mind, the final season would use the basic framework of Batman: Year One. So, for me, I'd like the Joker sort of teased up until that point, shown a little more fully once the season gets rolling and then completely goes off the rails once Bruce makes Batman's presence known.

I kind of want the Mask of the Phantasm backstory, tbh.

 

I like the Jack Napier origin the best. I love that scene in Batman '89 where the guy just steps out of the shadows and he really does look like the Joker, no makeup even needed:

 

I love the ambiguity of the Joker pre-Joker. I thought the way they touched on it in TDK was brilliant. Wonderful nod to the Moore take.

For the show, why not have it all ways. That is, keep it ambiguous, but perhaps have characters, smaller parts, or perhaps minor re-occurring,, that COULD be pre-Joker Joker, but never actually have one precise one develop into him.

In other-words, it's like a murder mystery, and there are many potential suspects/candidates, but they never show exactly which one it ends up being.

Hell, the Red Hood gang could be introduced, and have some small connection, or contact, with different candidates.

The beauty would be that they may NEVER have to conclusively answer, so long as the series ends once Bruce dons the cape and cowl; which seems to be their end point anyways.

Heck, even if they do continue into some actual on screen Bat-time, they don't have to get to the point in his career with the fateful confrontation with the Red Hood(s.)
Even if they do, they can still play it out inconclusively, and not just because they'd be hooded.
The Red Hood gang could have it's hooks into the different candidates, and in multiple ways:
Perhaps the comedian owes them money, or some other debt, maybe they called it in that night, maybe they didn't, maybe they did, but they did not force him to lead the heist.
Maybe there's a clear psychopath in the gang, who's fascinated with Batman as well, and we never know exactly where he is, or under which hood.
etc etc etc.

Could be an interesting take to a mystery, playing it out in reverse almost, with the development/"investigation" (by the viewers) happening before the actual incident.

It'd be a cool way to actually HAVE the character in the show, without ever actually pinning down his origin.

 

What's AAASHOSE?

 

LOL

AAASHOSE almost sounds like something else entirely...

 

Ah, gotcha, thanks.

 

So looks like they definitely DO intend to bring in the Joker a some point, at least according to the show runner.

Even more intrigued now as to how they plan on doing it. He mentioned Killing Joke as a favourite in his research, so I don't think it's a stretch to assume they will be introducing a failing comedian at some point.

 

Yep...

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/05/08/gotham-interview/

The "great care and a lot of thought" makes me happy he won't be rushed or shoehorned in.