The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 5

[Cain]

"Look, sometimes I don't know what to think about this. It's just something I have to do."

"Why??"

"Because nobody else can."



Then, this exchange:

"I just gotta know, are we gonna try to love each other?"

"I'd like to. But he's out there right now, and I've gotta go to work."

100% pure Batman

Honestly people are funny as hell with the things they are sticklers about.

"He knew Vicki for a cup of coffee"

Yeah and he also knew the likes of Silver St. Cloud, Julie Madison and Vesper Fairchild for a cup of coffee as well and it didn't stop them from becoming important women in his life for the time they were there in the storylines that introduced them.

Seriously.

Also as crazy as this may seem people have fallen in love in less than a week many times in the past. Some of them have even gone on to spend the rest of their lives together *gasps*

Honestly it's no different than romances in many other genre movies from that decade (Ie: Peter Venkman knows a lady for less than a week and falls for her, Kyle Reese and Sarah Connor become soulmates within 48 hours) and even today as well.

Also this is just me but I find that Vicki and Bruce had a lot more chemistry and seemed a lot less disingenuous than Rachel and Bruce in Batman Begins with their lack of chemistry and forced pathos. That was actually one of the things that crippled BB for me (I still only really like TDK out of those 3 movies) I didn't buy it for one second.

 

[regwec]

Batman as written in the comics is often fatally naive in his relationships with women, Jezebel Jet being a notable example.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Anyway, I think it was wrong for Alfred to let Vicky into the Batcave, but Bruce WAS about to let her know he was Batman. Of course, we have no idea if Alfred was really aware of that, so it comes off as this huge breach of security. Even if Alfred knew, I don't think he should have let Vicky into the cave without permission.

 

[The Shape]

Batman as written in the comics is often fatally naive in his relationships with women, Jezebel Jet being a notable example.

And if we're being honest, this movie =/= the comics. I have a hard time applying an automatic negative slash against this movie (or any Batman movie) simply because a character makes a decision that he/she might not have made in the comics.

 

[Cain]

Batman as written in the comics is often fatally naive in his relationships with women, Jezebel Jet being a notable example.

I agree with the sentiment but not with the example. That was a specific case of Batman actively playing dumb to play the **** out of her in the long run. It was calculated and very much something he was conscious of from the beginning. So it wasn't necessarily an outcome of his naivety when it comes to love. He was always aware in that case.

 

[Cain]

And if we're being honest, this movie =/= the comics. I have a hard time applying an automatic negative slash against this movie (or any Batman movie) simply because a character makes a decision that he/she might not have made in the comics.

This is a fair point though and one I agree with. I take every incarnation of these characters on it's own terms because that's the way it's meant to be. Yes Keaton's Batman does somethings that certain comic book Batman wouldn't but then he has done things that certain comic book Batman would. At the end of the day though to it's about whether his actions & characterizations work within the context of the version of Batman's world that he represents or not. That goes for any version of Batman.

 

[The Shape]

That's disgusting.

Anyway, I think it was wrong for Alfred to let Vicky into the Batcave, but Bruce WAS about to let her know he was Batman. Of course, we have no idea if Alfred was really aware of that, so it comes off as this huge breach of security. Even if Alfred knew, I don't think he should have let Vicky into the cave without permission.

To be fair, it's not necessarily against type for Alfred to make questionable decisions that are clearly meant for Bruce's best interests. See: burning the letter at the end of TDK and then essentially withholding the truth from Bruce (or lying) for roughly 8 years -- then revealing the truth and "shattering" Bruce's world in a last-ditch effort to save him.

Throughout B89, Bruce basically avoids the question that he knows he really has to ask himself. Can he give up being Batman for a "normal life" with someone he loves? It seems he was ready to try to answer that question by revealing himself as Batman to Vicki in her apartment before being interrupted, and then Alfred is the one who ultimately forces Bruce to confront the situation in the Batcave.

Also, it can and should be assumed that Bruce and Alfred communicate/talk more than in the scenes that are explicitly shown on screen (since they live together and are working together closely during his Batman crusade). It's entirely possible that Bruce had recounted his experience at Vicki's apartment to Alfred, and Alfred might have known that he tried to tell Vicki his secret.

Either way, I never really found it to be the abhorrent atrocity that some do and I think it pretty much works in context of the film as a whole.

 

[The Shape]

This is a fair point though and one I agree with. I take every incarnation of these characters on it's own terms because that's the way it's meant to be. Yes Keaton's Batman does somethings that certain comic book Batman wouldn't but then he has done things that certain comic book Batman would. At the end of the day though to it's about whether his actions & characterizations work within the context of the version of Batman's world that he represents or not. That goes for any version of Batman.

Well said.

 

[The Shape]

Not in this thread, not anymore. I've returned in the past, but it's never going to happen again because you guys are so whiny it's incredible.

Btw shauner, I wouldn't take this personally or classify this as people being whiny. If you remember, I was called out/jumped on for calling attention to and criticizing your posting style/habits in the TDKR thread a while back. It happens, and it isn't something that's exclusive to this thread by any means.

I'm sure you're completely right about Rodrigo anyway in the grand scheme of things, but in this instance, I was just adding that it's possible for someone to like and/or love something even if they also feel that something might have some shortcomings.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Nothing is perfect. B89 has its faults and even though aspects can be criticised for whatever reason, it doesn't mean to say I don't love what I see, even with the faults.

 

[Guts]

Out of all the Joker quotes in the movie this is my favorite.
"Decent people shouldn't live here. They'd be happier someplace else."

 

[Keehar]

Honestly people are funny as hell with the things they are sticklers about.

"He knew Vicki for a cup of coffee"

Yeah and he also knew the likes of Silver St. Cloud, Julie Madison and Vesper Fairchild for a cup of coffee as well and it didn't stop them from becoming important women in his life for the time they were there in the storylines that introduced them.

Nope. Those gals did more with him than just a few bottles of plonk and then a roll in the hay date before they became important to him. That's why the Vicki one sucked.

Batman as written in the comics is often fatally naive in his relationships with women, Jezebel Jet being a notable example.

Nah that wasn't naive that was just him being conned by a proper professional criminal organization the Black Glove. Readers didn't even know she was a bad one til they revealed it.

Anyway, I think it was wrong for Alfred to let Vicky into the Batcave, but Bruce WAS about to let her know he was Batman. Of course, we have no idea if Alfred was really aware of that, so it comes off as this huge breach of security. Even if Alfred knew, I don't think he should have let Vicky into the cave without permission.

Truth.

 

[BatLobster]

Who cares? Go complain in a different thread about how people have changed their opinions toward the Nolan films.

Opinions change. It happens. They don't have to be set in stone.

This is definitely true, though at the same time...it's not like hardcore Burton fans had the same accepting, nonchalant attitude about it back around 2005 when people were turning on the Burton films like crazy. A lot of folks were pretty pissed off about it. People tend to call out bandwagon hopping when they sense it, cause there's a difference between having your opinion slowly altered overtime (which is natural), and changing it entirely overnight, or just saying wildly contradictory things.

 

[regwec]

Why does it matter that much what Rodrigo thinks? Why can't we just leave him alone

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Say what you want about Jack's Joker, but he is genuinely the creepiest Joker in this pic. ''Just a nasty uncle'' my ***.

 

[Keehar]

He looks toothless on his upper teeth.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Why does it matter that much what Rodrigo thinks? Why can't we just leave him alone

Thank you, my friend

 

[The Shape]

Why does it matter that much what Rodrigo thinks? Why can't we just leave him alone

We can't. He is the Chosen One.

 

[The Joker]

Anyway, I think it was wrong for Alfred to let Vicky into the Batcave, but Bruce WAS about to let her know he was Batman. Of course, we have no idea if Alfred was really aware of that, so it comes off as this huge breach of security. Even if Alfred knew, I don't think he should have let Vicky into the cave without permission.

It was Alfred's idea to tell her. He put the flea in his ear to do it. Very unlike Alfred, who always cautions Bruce not to be premature in revealing his secrets to people.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

We can't. He is the Chosen One.

I think we should make a poll. "Does it matter what Rodrigo thinks? 1. Yes 2. No 3. Haven't decided yet, need to see more 4. Jurassic World"

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

The death of his mother may make Bruce such a love struck fool for women. Or it could just be a typical movie romance that isn't the worst thing in the world.

 

[Keehar]

Can't blame Mommy issues on Bruce being a sap with Vicki. They don't emphasise anything like that.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Say what you want about Jack's Joker, but he is genuinely the creepiest Joker in this pic. ''Just a nasty uncle'' my ***.

I think Jack's joker is much more terrifying that Heath's. There's a sense in which Heath's is almost too charismatic to be scary. I'm not saying one's better than the other here, just saying they are different.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Can't blame Mommy issues on Bruce being a sap with Vicki. They don't emphasise anything like that.

Not trying to be a jerk, but what do you like about the movie? Honest question.

 

[ThePhantasm]