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Discussion in 'Batman World' started by Thread Manager, Jun 14, 2017.
'Batman': The Joker's Makeup Design Was No Laughing Matter to Jack Nicholson
You made those yourself?
31 years ago Tim Burton’s “Batman” was release to world
Crazy to think that all the time that’s passed and Michael Keaton is gonna be back
Great week as a fan of this movie all around.
Just thought I'd share WB/DC's Fandome image for the movie (or Keaton's Batman in general) here:
Here’s my copy of the comic adaptation for the film.
I was watching this again tonight. In recent years I'd come to regard it as a fun but flawed and somewhat shoddily realised movie, but tonight's viewing gave me a sharp reminder that it's really not. In fact while I never stopped being in love with this film, tonight's viewing revitalised that love in a way that I hadn't felt for a long, long time. It's a really great movie.
Virtually plotless, no doubt, but the fact that so many can come away from a film with virtually no plot and STILL feel satisfied to such an extent, tells me that this movie must be firing on near enough every other cylinder. Atmosphere, set design, music, acting, direction, etc. Everything is top notch. I'm never bored for one second of this movie.
In fact when Vicki Vale was walking through the back alley and looked up to see the Bat-Signal shining triumphantly in the sky for the very first time, I felt kinda crushed that I now had to say goodbye again to this dark urban fairy-tale landscape that had engrossed me for the past two hours or so.
The only real substantial flaw in this movie, I feel, is the plot-hole that Gordon and his men are warned well in advance of the Joker's intent to cause chaos at the city's bicentennial....by the Joker himself! And yet they still somehow arrive late. IIRC, there was some explanation for their late arrival in an earlier draft of the script, but that eventually became lost in all the rewrites. A shame.
It's a wonderful film. Finally seeing it on the big screen for the first time a few years ago at Alamo Drafthouse (the only Bat-film I hadn't up to that point) really solidified my love for it. It was a fully engrossing experience.
It's a good film. Yes, it has its flawed , but truthfully, It tends to be only fanboys who have the biggest issues with it today.
General audiences loved it back in the 80s, and given all the positive response to Keaton coming back, people still have a fondness for it.
The public then, and as now, pretty much accept the film for what it is.
It's a classic.
My experience with the Batman movies was a little unusual because I didn't see Batman'89 until much later (I was only 5 when it came out), like AFTER Forever. Still, when that movie hit, it was inescapable. I had the trading cards, the action figures, everything except actually watching the damn thing. I did watch Returns on home video.
Once "Batman: TAS" hit the airwaves and blew all our minds, that became the definitive Batman for a lot of fans, including me. When Forever came along, I got it into my head that Batman'89 wasn't the "real" Batman the way it was for other people; like because it was such a cultural touchstone, I didn't feel bad about rejecting it. By the time I did watch it, it felt like a relic; even though it inspired TAS, I couldn't accept how different it was. (This taught me an important lesson in not reviewing a movie sight unseen.)
And so in 1995 when I was 11 years old, Forever came along at just the right time for me to watch it on the big screen and regard it, for all its flaws and silliness, as MY live-action Batman.
Just thought I'd post this photo that I've literally never come across before, on account of the black eye makeup suddenly becoming an acknowledged part of The Batman's canon.
And yeah he pretty much does look like Beetlejuice again.
On my last viewing of Batman 89, a realization hit me like a ton of bricks. Michael Keaton could have easily been Joker. It's not out of the realm of possibility. He was a comedic actor, he had done Beetlejuice. He would have done Joker just fine.
I could see Keaton as the Joker. I could see Bale as the Joker too.
Absolutely. If you were casting the movie back in '89, you'd surely look at Keaton's facial features and body of work up til that point, and think that he was way more suited to playing the Joker than Batman. Thankfully they saw something in him that many of us probably wouldn't have. In fact I always thought that the cartoon image of the Joker that plays in the 'Love that Joker' commercial, looked more like Keaton than it did Nicholson. And it's hilarious because they cut to Keaton's reaction immediately after the commercial ends.
Easily an instant cinematic classic.
89 and TDK are the definitive movie going Batman experiences. Nothing else comes remotely close.
Even with it’s cinematic flaws, slight hiccups in unnecessary changes to the mythos (mainly Jack Napier being killer of the Wayne’s) ... 89 is fantastically faithful to the earliest Kane - Finger 1939 pulp horror rendition of the character.
It is so dark, moody and gothic. Just putting Batman in that all matte black armored suit instead of the blue and grey undie wearing pajamas was pure menacing brilliance.
It’s easy to forget in all the years since, both for blockbusters and CBM at large, hell even Batman’s own long going franchise itself, just how innovative, edgy and ground breaking this movie was for: the character of Batman, considered a campy joke by the masses up until it’s release, movie marketing, and basically blockbuster movies going forward in general.
It’s gloomy but never loses its energy or heroism. Something Batman Returns utterly failed at. It’s dark but fun and enjoyable. It is pulp comic booky but plays things utterly straight from a psychological perspective.
It’s the most serious take on the character until TDK trilogy. No camp (Returns), and no popcorn cheese (Schumacher).
Keaton nailed it. Burton with balance from Hamm, Anton Furst, and even the studio with Peters nailed it. And Nicholson did his thing.
First movie I ever saw in theaters. Made me fall in absolute love with the character. I still utterly adore this film. And can pick up and watch it always. Even 31 years later and knowing every piece of dialogue scene for scene.
Well said. I feel the same exact way.
No joke, I've seen Batman 89' so much that I even know the sound effects by heart...
This movie has become part of my DNA.
Me too. That’s why the 4K releases are so dog **** trash. Not only do they totally mess up the look of all the pictures with the color grading. They also change the sound effects. Gone are the cool gangster era gun sound effects. They modernized it too much.
Oh yeah, I never understand those kinds of changes ... I mean, the sound design is a big part of a movie, I find it totally disrespectful to replace the work of people who put themselves into the movie back then. And it's true that it's all the more stupid here, with the specific sounds adding to the retro atmosphere ...
When I saw the 4K version of the batmobile scene where Batman leaves the museum with Vicky, I was completely taken by surprise not hearing the roar of the vehicle after its turn in front of the theater (I said I know this movie haha).
I'm glad to have discovered this because I almost purchase the blu-ray...
The change to the Batmobile's engine firing up was the worst offender. It sounded so powerful and full of life in the original, but in the 4K release it sounds so thin and pitiful. Like a gas lamp being lit.
Fun fact: Prior to its release, they were rushing to release Batman on time in 1989 so they actually wound up using a lot of stock sound effects from other movies. Gunshots, specifically, were taken from Dirty Harry and other sounds effects pulled from Aliens (Batmobile shields/mechanical noises), Superman III, and other films. Therefore, the film technically never had proper/original sound mixing back in the day. I believe I also read somewhere that Elfman wasn't happy with the sound mixing of his score within the film.
So while I of course absolutely love the original version and its sound mix, as it is the one I've watched countless times throughout my entire life, I personally have no problem with the 4K version of B89. For one, the picture is superb and the closest you can get to way the film was originally meant to be seen. 4K doesn't mess up the look of the film -- it helps to return it to its original state when it was first screened in theaters. The colors are more vibrant and the lighting/shadows look better and closer to how Burton intended. The film is darker where it needs to be, and brighter where it needs to be -- unlike the TV and DVD transfers where some scenes are too dark or too bright. You can also just see more details and texture in 4K compared to other formats.
The musical score sounds incredible and the sound quality is top notch. Aside from the new sound effects in places, the actual sound mixing itself was much better and more properly layered. And surprisingly, the new sounds effects really didn't bother me at all in this case. On one hand, it's cool to now have a version of the film with original/unique sound effects rather than ones that were jacked from other films. And on the other hand, along with the incredible picture quality, improved color grading, and new details that can be seen (or hidden) in the new transfer, the new sounds effects actually helped make me feel like I was watching the film for the very first time again -- which isn't easy for a movie you know completely by heart.
Plus, we all now have both versions to enjoy, so we all win.
Agree 100% with this.
I also believe Christian Bale would have made a fine Joker also, I actually wouldn't mind seeing them cast him as Joker opposite Robert Pattinson's Batman.
Since we were talking about the movie being too modernized, what about going reverse ? =)
Todd McFarlane keeps rolling out DC figures and if I don’t see a Michael Keaton figure soon, I swear to God...
Hopefully he gets around to the prior DC on film catalogue. Should be a matter of time.
Think he mentioned them before getting the license as things he wanted to do.
Keaton 89 Bats
Nicholson 89 Joker (expensive rights)
Keaton Returns Bats
Pfieffer Returns Catwoman
Devito Returns Penguin
Bale Begins Bats
Murphy Begins Scarecrow
Neeson Begins Ra’s
Bale TDK Bats
Ledger TDK Joker
Eckhart TDK Two Face
Hardy Rises Bane
Hathaway Rises Catwoman
Cavill MoS Supes
Shannon MoS Zod
Affleck BvS Bats
Cavill BvS Supes
Affleck BvS Armored Bats
Gadot BvS WW
Eisenberg BvS Lex
And a HUGE McFarlane sculpted BvS Doomsday would be so epic.
Those would all sell like hot cakes. Especially at $20 a pop for the level of detail and quality thicccc plastic McFarlane has been providing. And when the only other comp is Mezco and Imports for collectors at $80 - $100 a pop. No brainer.
I’d personally be in total heaven. Love his work on the DC stuff so far, especially the Arkham and Superman comic stuff. Especially in the superior 7 inch scale.