The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

[Two-Face]

I honestly think Catwoman shouldn't had been included in TDKR.

I think Chris Nolan wasn't gonna include Catwoman but it was his brother persuaded him to use her. I wished there were more scenes with Batman/Bruce. I liked Nolan's Catwoman.

 

[shauner111]

One of the things that I love most about Pfeiffer's Catwoman that rarely gets mentioned is her voice/line delivery.I don't think anybody will ever match it.

Im in the minority but i actually dont care for her line delivery/voice when she's in the suit.

Also i find her sexier as Selina. Once she has the suit on it's like she becomes extra sl*tty. You dont have to act like a friggin nympho to be sexy. I liked how Hathaway didn't have to grab Batman's junk or lie on a bed like she's ready to get pounced. She got the point across without doing that. Some will disagree with me on that but that's how i see it.

 

[ThePhantasm]

 

[regwec]

Hathaway did "sexy" for people who don't like sex.

 

[The Joker]

I like sex and I think she was very sexy.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I thought both did a fine job. What I find perplexing is how in his post above shauner completely misses the point as to why these two interpretations are different. He seems to think the only reason Pfieffer's Catwoman acted the way she did was to make the character "sexy," which Hathaway supposedly accomplished in a less overt manner.

 

[shauner111]

I get that they're different, I didnt miss anything.

Hathaway did "sexy" for people who don't like sex.

Are you like 15? She wasn't a horny chick making sexual references every minute so she's not sexy or something?

 

[ThePhantasm]

You obviously did miss something. Pfieffer's Catwoman wasn't a "horny chick." She was an abused woman who snapped and decided to use her sexuality as a weapon against men. She uses it to mess with their heads... with those security guards, with Bruce, with Schreck, and with the Penguin. But she always has an ulterior motive to it... she doesn't actually WANT them.

The only part of her that wants to be with Bruce is that little bit of the shy, naive secretary that remains in her consciousness... but in the end Catwoman overpowers Selina and she abandons Bruce.

She's split, right down the middle.

 

[The Joker]

Catwoman using her sex appeal to get the advantage is a common Catwoman trait. She is not actually horny for these people. She's just manipulating them using her sexuality. A bit like Poison Ivy only less deadly.

 

[Two-Face]

I think Anne did very well that. It was very Catwomanish.

 

[ThePhantasm]

She certainly did. But it was a different interpretation of the character - one less psychologically scarred and more financially desperate. Which was fitting for a movie that was (partly) about economic terrorism, just as Pfieffer's Catwoman was fitting for a dark noir / psychological film.

 

[shauner111]

Good point.

 

[Two-Face]

She certainly did. But it was a different interpretation of the character - one less psychologically scarred and more financially desperate. Which was fitting for a movie that was (partly) about economic terrorism, just as Pfieffer's Catwoman was fitting for a dark noir / psychological film.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[ThePhantasm]

that's how I open doors too

 

[DACrowe]

She certainly did. But it was a different interpretation of the character - one less psychologically scarred and more financially desperate. Which was fitting for a movie that was (partly) about economic terrorism, just as Pfieffer's Catwoman was fitting for a dark noir / psychological film.

Yes. Pfeiffer's Catwoman is also very much more rooted in the era she was created in. The sexual revolution had happened, women were in the work force, but while the glass ceiling is still prevalent today, it was much more visible and contentious with certain male professionals in the 1990s (look at the venom seethed at a certain soon-to-be first lady of the same year Batman Returns was released).

The idea of a woman taking control of her sexuality, as well as dealing with dominating co-workers or employers, was taken on in a much more overt, expressionistic way. I would say Burton and Waters turned Catwoman into more of a fable-like character for how they viewed modern feminism circa 1992, as a being who is torn between the "home life" (Bruce Wayne) and her career (being Catwoman, overcoming her pig of a boss) and somehow balancing that tricky dichotomy in the 1990s.

I actually think Hathaway's Catwoman is just as strong, but Nolan is not very interested in using her to explore feminism. Instead, he paints her as a woman who is just fantastic at what she does (being a thief) and instead uses her for a subtext about the grievances of the working class. She is not confused about her role in the world or her gender, but is instead most interested in overthrowing that patriarchy for her own advantage, as she is far more comfortable with her sexuality and independence than Pfeiffer's is.

I think that also makes an interesting contrast between the interpretations.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Yeah. And those are both very valid interpretations. I think Pfieffer's stands out more because it is so dynamic and colorful. She's more of a force of nature, an archetype come to life. Hathaway's is still very "Catwoman," but in a more generic sort of female spy / action hero sort of way. I feel with Pfieffer Burton did something unique and enduring, whereas Hathaway's Catwoman is more forgettable and derivative.

 

[DACrowe]

I do not know if I would call it derivative. If it is, it's more of a throwback to the kind of femme fatale cat burglars who would appear in Hitchcock movies from the '40s and '50s than it is of anything modern. Yes she wears skintight leather, but other than that she feels much more developed or fully realized, including through performance, than most other in the genre. I actually think her Catwoman is a much more interesting character than Marvel's Black Widow, despite BW now being used in three movies.

But Pfeiffer did have the better costume and the better developed character arc. Then again, I do prefer it when Catwoman is not quite so crazy.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

The oval!

 

[ThePhantasm]

 

[Marvolo]

​

http://kane52630.tumblr.com/post/77993473968/why-are-you-dressed-up-like-batman-max

Three of my many favorite moments in this film!

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Really? Eat floor?

 

[ThePhantasm]

Really? Eat floor?

You shouldn't actually eat floor. This is just a Batman movie and is not intended to give anyone nutritional advice regarding their diet.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Well, if this was a Nolan movie...

 

[ThePhantasm]

Then the diet is tangerines and a fernet branca.