The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Didn't they have her down as 'The Cat' on Bruce's computer anyway? That's close enough for me.

 

[regwec]

Declining to use the name "Catwoman" would have been fine if it was inferred that "Catwoman" otherwise existed as a dual identity. Coupled with the (in my opinion, ghastly) decision to have the "cattish" elements of her costume be incidental, it led to the impression that Catwoman was not really an entity at all, but rather Selina Kyle in her work clothes.

That is not an entirely invalid approach, but it isn't one that interests me very much. I much prefer Catwoman to be a contrasting counterpoint to Batman; her thrill-seeking wish fulfillment vs his stoic dutifulness. For that to work, it is important that "Catwoman" exists as an empowering device for Selina.

I do, however, think I would have enjoyed Nolan's "Selina" more had she been played by a more compelling actress.

 

[BradenPickering]

Declining to use the name "Catwoman" would have been fine if it was inferred that "Catwoman" otherwise existed as a dual identity. Coupled with the (in my opinion, ghastly) decision to have the "cattish" elements of her costume be incidental, it led to the impression that Catwoman was not really an entity at all, but rather Selina Kyle in her work clothes.

That is not an entirely invalid approach, but it isn't one that interests me very much. I much prefer Catwoman to be a contrasting counterpoint to Batman; her thrill-seeking wish fulfillment vs his stoic dutifulness. For that to work, it is important that "Catwoman" exists as an empowering device for Selina.

I do, however, think I would have enjoyed Nolan's "Selina" more had she been played by a more compelling actress.

This pretty much encapsulates everything I was feeling but never could have articulated as nicely. I think that's the thing that was bugging me all along but could never quite put my finger on - that the whole idea of "duality" was missing from the Catwoman character. It just seemed like it was this person "Selina" the whole time regardless of what she was doing or wearing. That very well may have been the intention, and I don't want to say it was a "bad" approach necessarily, but it wasn't a very compelling or especially interesting one, either. I thought Hathaway did a pretty good job considering what she was given to do; off the top of my head I can't think of another actress who could have made more of the role utilizing the same material.

 

[shauner111]

Good point, but i dont think Catwoman needs to be some female Batman. She doesn't need to become some kind of identity where nobody else should know who she is underneath that cowl. Which is why she doesn't have a cowl. She's not trying to hide her hair, her face, whatever. She's Selina Kyle. Her catsuit is probably inspired by Batman's theatricality in Nolan's movies, but she's wearing it as an expression, and the goggles/stilettos are useful in being the thief that she is.

Burton's was just different. She's no thief, she's a straight up villain. With a sympathetic backstory. But a villain nonetheless.

Like Batman, she is willing to kill. She doesn't want people knowing who she is. It's a secret identity. She's just as nuts as Bruce in that version.

The whole suit has nothing to do with practicality. It only exists because she is trying to make a statement. It's a pure sexual statement. "Here i am, who ive always wanted to be!". But it only exists to cause ruckus and express her new found confidance and sexuality. This is not a knock on it, just an observation.

It's a very good performance from Michelle. But i just prefer Hathaway because i dig a Selina who is the grey-area thief-like character. I liked how bold she was in her crimes. It's pretty easy for the police to find hair samples from her or link her to past crimes. But she doesn't care that much obviously. She already has a laundry list of a record. She steals from the rich, the cheaters, the corrupt who don't want the police sniffing around anyway...even if their safe is broken into in the middle of the night.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

It's chilly in here!

 

[Elevator Man]

It's funny how Nolan gave an explanation of why Bruce Wayne would dress up as a bat, why Crane wears a burlap bag over his face, why Joker wears makeup and a purple suit, why Bane wears a mask, but didn't bother explaining how Selina got her costume. She just happen to show up with it on coincidentally the same day Batman returns. So there goes the inspired by Batman excuse. Besides why would she be inspired by Batman to wear that since he was retired for 8 years. Even Burton's version showed how Selina came up with her costume.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Thank god he didn't that's one thing he did in TDKR that I was very thankful for, give Catwoman at least a little mystery.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

It looked to me like Hathaway's Catwoman only had an accidental cat motif, when her goggles are up it looks like ears, sort of like how the designer of the Tumbler says that it was modeled after a bat with its wings folded in front. I doubt that Lucius Fox actually intentionally designed a bat motif into the car, though. To be honest, I can't remember if she was ever referred to as Catwoman.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Nolan went with the bare minimum with Catwoman when it came to the costume.

The hint of cat ears with ''practical googles'' and serrated heels to give the hint of claws. Take those two things away and you've got yourself a very bland looking Bond girl.

Yes, there's a flavour of Newmar about her which is the only things that saves the costume for me. But I truly believe that Nolan never embraced the character of Selina Kyle as fully as he could have.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

Nolan went with the bare minimum with Catwoman when it came to the costume.

The hint of cat ears with ''practical googles'' and serrated heels to give the hint of claws. Take those two things away and you've got yourself a very bland looking Bond girl.

Yes, there's a flavour of Newmar about her which is the only things that saves the costume for me. But I truly believe that Nolan never embraced the character of Selina Kyle as fully as he could have.

Before Ledger's Joker was revealed, it seemed like everyone was under the impression the Joker wouldn't actually look like a clown or wear purple, that something so extravagant and colorful would be out of place in the world Nolan had created.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Before Ledger's Joker was revealed, it seemed like everyone was under the impression the Joker wouldn't actually look like a clown or wear purple, that something so extravagant and colorful would be out of place in the world Nolan had created.

Exactly, I just feel his Catwoman could have had a little more flair without it breaking his own self-imposed rules.

 

[Travesty]

Heh, Hathaway's costume is still pretty bad, IMO. I liked her in the movie, but hated that costume.

 

[BatLobster]

I feel that it's more than just a "flavor" of Numar, it looks pretty much like Numar 2012 to me. Plus the goggles are a big part of the modern comics look so it was cool to see that incorporated.

Joker might've worn purple, but he still wasn't permawhite, there were no joybuzzers, no acid squirting flowers, no "Bang!" guns, etc. It was still very much a no frills kind of approach.

I don't know, I get that it wasn't what some fans would've preferred for the character but she honestly felt pretty close to what I always imagined Nolan's Catwoman might be like. I also wasn't surprised by the similarity to the Numar look, since as some people pointed out, Ledger's Joker kind of felt like a darker, grungier Caesar Romero. Nolan clearly has a soft spot for the 60s show.

 

[shauner111]

It's funny how Nolan gave an explanation of why Bruce Wayne would dress up as a bat, why Crane wears a burlap bag over his face, why Joker wears makeup and a purple suit, why Bane wears a mask, but didn't bother explaining how Selina got her costume. She just happen to show up with it on coincidentally the same day Batman returns. So there goes the inspired by Batman excuse. Besides why would she be inspired by Batman to wear that since he was retired for 8 years. Even Burton's version showed how Selina came up with her costume.

Why do we need to see her create her costume? When Nolan does exposition, people complain it's too much, then when he leaves it to the imagination, everyone wants exposition. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

She's obviously been wearing this thing for many years. Her file even says that she's known as "The Cat". It says that early on in the movie. Before Bruce even puts his own suit back on.

 

[The Joker]

Before Ledger's Joker was revealed, it seemed like everyone was under the impression the Joker wouldn't actually look like a clown or wear purple, that something so extravagant and colorful would be out of place in the world Nolan had created.

Which was a pretty stupid assumption to make given Batman's full on costume in Begins. Pointy ear cowl, cape, utility belt etc. All there. Even Crane got the Scarecrow mask and OTT fear gas scenes with demon Batman, and a fire breathing horse he was riding on. So if all that wasn't out of place then a purple suit and a clown face sure wouldn't be.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

The Bat/Cat relationship is without a doubt better in Returns than in Rises. There's a real connection between the former pair, while the latter leaves more to be desired. Maybe Pfeiffer is my favorite Catwoman, after all.

 

[The Shape]

It's funny how Nolan gave an explanation of why Bruce Wayne would dress up as a bat, why Crane wears a burlap bag over his face, why Joker wears makeup and a purple suit, why Bane wears a mask, but didn't bother explaining how Selina got her costume.

We got that explanation in TDK? I must have missed it.

Even Burton's version showed how Selina came up with her costume.

So?

 

[CountOrlok]

We got that explanation in TDK? I must have missed it.

It had something to do with "war paint" I believe.

 

[Mister Meddle]

Goon 1: I heard he wears makeup.

Goon 2: Makeup?

Goon 1: Yeah, to scare people. You know? War paint.

 

[shauner111]

And that's an explanation? That's just speculation going around.

 

[The Joker]

It also doesn't explain why he wears a purple suit.

 

[The Shape]

Goon 1: I heard he wears makeup.

Goon 2: Makeup?

Goon 1: Yeah, to scare people. You know? War paint.

Those goons were referencing rumors about The Joker. None of them had seen or met him. Far from an explanation about him. The only explanations we got about The Joker came from his own mouth and were all lies, most likely.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

It also doesn't explain why he wears a purple suit.

It's because that mother****er got style.

 

[The Shape]

It's because that mother****er got style.

He may have also been color blind and thought his suit was black the entire time. Realism!

 

[antsman41]

No... The mob makes fun of the 'cheap purple suit' and Joker mocks Maroni about them paying for it.