Batman Returns The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 4

[SiegePerilous]

7 Major Problems With Batman Returns

Spoiler

7. Just Where Is Batman?
http://whatculture.com/film/7-major-problems-batman-returns.php/2

6. The Stupidest Origin Story Of All Time
http://whatculture.com/film/7-major-problems-batman-returns.php/3

5. The Penguin
http://whatculture.com/film/7-major-problems-batman-returns.php/4

4. The Penguin Runs For Mayor
http://whatculture.com/film/7-major-problems-batman-returns.php/5

3. The Set Design
http://whatculture.com/film/7-major-problems-batman-returns.php/6

2. Did Batman Just Grin As He Blew That Guy Up?
http://whatculture.com/film/7-major-problems-batman-returns.php/7

1. Too Many Villains
http://whatculture.com/film/7-major-problems-batman-returns.php/8

http://whatculture.com/film/7-major-problems-batman-returns.php/8

I've never understood the complaint about #6. Even when I first saw this movie at 8 years old, I knew that Selina wasn't some sort of magical cat zombie. She clearly survived the fall and had a psychological break after being repressed and abused for so long. The cats just happened to be there when she woke up, and she seized on them as a totem for her symbolic "rebirth". Done.

Kevin Smith and Chris Sims, among others like this author (who says Catwoman has "powers" in this movie. Um, what?) make a big deal about how this origin doesn't make any sense. Which leads me to believe that they don't know how to watch movies.

I do agree with disliking Batman killing dudes, though that isn't without precedent in the Golden Age comics, so it's just an interpretation I don't like instead of one that's completely wrong.

 

[Travesty]

I've never understood the complaint about #6. Even when I first saw this movie at 8 years old, I knew that Selina wasn't some sort of magical cat zombie. She clearly survived the fall and had a psychological break after being repressed and abused for so long. The cats just happened to be there when she woke up, and she seized on them as a totem for her symbolic "rebirth". Done.

Yeah, I never saw it as some kind of zombie-Selina. Even Burton brings this up on how that was never his intentions in his commentary.

 

[shauner111]

I've never understood the complaint about #6. Even when I first saw this movie at 8 years old, I knew that Selina wasn't some sort of magical cat zombie. She clearly survived the fall and had a psychological break after being repressed and abused for so long. The cats just happened to be there when she woke up, and she seized on them as a totem for her symbolic "rebirth". Done.

Kevin Smith and Chris Sims, among others like this author (who says Catwoman has "powers" in this movie. Um, what?) make a big deal about how this origin doesn't make any sense. Which leads me to believe that they don't know how to watch movies.

I do agree with disliking Batman killing dudes, though that isn't without precedent in the Golden Age comics, so it's just an interpretation I don't like instead of one that's completely wrong.

Is this a serious post? She gets shot over and over and doesn't seem to feel anything, while telling her boss that she has 9 lives. She then gets electrocuted and survives at the end looking as quick and Catwomany as ever. Which leads me to believe that yes, she was resurrected by a bunch of cats, otherwise she wouldn't have those powers that she seems to have later on in the film.

"They dont know how to watch movies", that's either the most childish answer i've ever heard or the most ignorant.

 

[The Joker]

The "deaths" at the hands of Batman and Penguin I can buy her surviving unscathed. Because in one she landed in a sand truck, and the other she landed in a green house and was cushioned by all the plants. Maybe a bit far fetched that she didn't sprain or break anything, but this is a comic book movie so it's easy to let it fly.

It was her getting shot four times at close range by Schreck, then surviving the electrical inferno, and then we see her prowling around the rooftops a couple of nights later without a bother on her that really stands out as her being supernatural. I mean taking four gun shots, she shouldn't be able to be skittering around rooftops so soon after that.

 

[SiegePerilous]

Is this a serious post? She gets shot over and over and doesn't seem to feel anything, while telling her boss that she has 9 lives. She then gets electrocuted and survives at the end looking as quick and Catwomany as ever. Which leads me to believe that yes, she was resurrected by a bunch of cats, otherwise she wouldn't have those powers that she seems to have later on in the film.

"They dont know how to watch movies", that's either the most childish answer i've ever heard or the most ignorant.

Just because you disagree, that means it must not be a serious post?

She doesn't have powers. Just because the crazy lady says she has nine lives doesn't mean she actually does. By film standards, especially one that is as cartoony as this one, her injuries are survivable. All three of her falls in the early parts of the film are broken/softened. And when she gets shot, she is very clearly feeling the pain, but is too far gone/enraged to let it deter her for long. Also, if you look closely, she was shot in non-vital areas; off the top of my head, I recall seeing bullet wounds in her shoulder and one of her legs. I guess that means Max is a really suck shot, which is always possible.

She electrocutes Max, but outside of a shot of him convulsing while she pins him down, the camera cuts away from them for a long while as stuff explodes around them and Bruce goes over to sift through the wreckage. She slipped out as Max got the brunt of the resulting catastrophe. She's moving around again at the end, but some time has passed, and this version of Selina seems a bit too crazy to know when she should rest and recover. She's probably doing some serious harm to herself being out like that, and I honestly don't expect her to last too long.

You are right that my "they don't know how to watch movies" line was pretty dickish, and I should have dialed it back. I didn't mean for it to sound as harsh as it does. I apologize. But I've seen some seriously childish and ignorant posts on here that are far worse.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Her "deaths" are for an emotional note. Don't concern yourself with how she survived.

 

[AnneFan]

Not saying it is a direct reference by Burton, but the 1941 story The Case of the Honest Crook has Batman shot three times at close range and he continues on like nothing. In BR Selina gets hit on her limbs.

This scan below takes place at the end:

 

[The Joker]

^ That looks more plausible though because Batman passes out eventually and gets operated on to get the bullets removed, and then is bed ridden in hospital afterward as anyone would be after getting shot multiple times anywhere on the body:

BR's ending shows Selina parading about as normal as Catwoman a couple of nights later like she'd never been shot. That's the one that makes the supernatural element really stand out. She must have Wolverine's healing mutation

 

[Decepticonus]

The origin just flat out sucks. She gets pushed out a building to her death (or Shreck planned to) but I guess those onnings slowed the fall to her death...aaa hahahaha NO! That's b/s. She falls on the pavement. And then a freaking zoo worth of cats come out to lick her & bite at her to wake her up with now "cat eyes"? On paper this sounds nuts! Where did all these cats come from? How can they, only 18 people in BR Gotham. Unless they're all imported strays. Anyways, but yes where did they come from and why? It might make sense if she had tuna or catnip on her. Why do they bother to nibble at her? How does she get cat eyes? Now if you said, hey they're cats that escaped a lab of mutant genetic testing or mystical magic cats. OK still silly but now it follows some sort logic, albeit silly comic book logic, but it's something. Plus, she still wanted revenge on Max for "killing her". Seeing this as a 6 year old baffled me. "So I wont die if cats are there to wake me up????"
Regardless of w/e Burton's intention were he failed at any sense of coherence. And yes the 9 lives thing, that never made sense. Fall into kitty litter? Oh no you'll never walk again???? The green house? Comfy it was not I'm sure but not entirely deadly. And Shreck's shooting? Ahahahahaha, you even see him purposely aim at her legs.
Doctor: Miss Kyle we got some good news and some bad news
Selina: OK Doc what's the good news?
Doctor: The bullets hit nothing vital, you will live.
Selina: Great, so what's the bad news?
Doctor: You're still alive to finish a pretentious Tim Burton film.

And the end of the film. Wow, she sewed her costume back up in no time. If anything, she has no CAT powers, but XTREME SEWING POWERS!

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

BR's ending shows Selina parading about as normal as Catwoman a couple of nights later like she'd never been shot. That's the one that makes the supernatural element really stand out. She must have Wolverine's healing mutation

To be fair, that's like asking where Edward Scissorhands got all those blocks of ice.

It's a Tim Burton fairytale... some of it isn't supposed to be overly analyzed. It is what it is.

I'm not saying everybody has to love it or accept it, but it's highly reasonable in Burton's world.

 

[The Joker]

Yeah but the premise of Edward Scissorhands was he was a boy an old inventor man made all by himself in his creepy mansion workshop. It was like a Gothic version of Pinocchio. The entire concept of that is unrealistic in every way so anything that comes after that is secondary. He could grow two heads and it would be in line with the realism of his origin.

Tim Burton was asserting there was nothing supernatural about Catwoman, and until the ending I'd have agreed with him.

 

[The Shape]

To be fair, that's like asking where Edward Scissorhands got all those blocks of ice.

The ice store, obviously.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

The ice store, obviously.

 

[Travesty]

Oh yea! Well the ice store called, and they're running out of you!

 

[Cain]

"What's the difference? you're their all time best seller"

 

[Kane52630]

To be fair, that's like asking where Edward Scissorhands got all those blocks of ice.

The ice store, obviously.

 

[BatLobster]

To be fair to Burton though, wasn't the final shot of the movie something the studio mandated at the last minute?

 

[Stu]

 

[Indy Flash]

That's awesome.

 

[Elevator Man]

To be fair to Burton though, wasn't the final shot of the movie something the studio mandated at the last minute?

Exactly. Also the special effects men (on the special features) pointed out how it doesn't make any sense how Catwoman is standing up there b/c of the way the final shot was constructed.

 

[Cain]

 

[Stu]

 

[Naked Shia]

7 majors problems about Batman Returns? what about the 700 majors great things about it?

 

[Cain]

Reason #657: Zombie clowns on stilts.

 

[SiegePerilous]

To be fair to Burton though, wasn't the final shot of the movie something the studio mandated at the last minute?

I believe it was, they said something like that in the DVD extras. I think it was to tease the Catwoman spin off film that never got made.

Though Burton still seems to have intended her to be alive at the end, as Bruce looking for her in the alley wouldn't make sense otherwise if he saw her fried body next to Max earlier.