The Official Batman TAS Thread - Part 2

[The Joker]

Walker topped Elfman.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Definitely.

 

[schereZada]

Hello there, everyone.

When did Walker top Elfman? She did good, but her Batman theme was like a dozed off melancholic version of Elfman theme. And Walker never did something close to "Descent into Mystery," "Charge of the Batmobile" or "Attack of the Batwing" among others.


Cheers.

 

[The Joker]

The score to Mask of the Phantasm alone tops all of them. Easily.

 

[schereZada]

The score to Mask of the Phantasm alone tops all of them. Easily.

Hi again, The Joker.

Which themes in Mask of the Phantasm exactly can top the ones I mentioned? I'm interested in comparing them. I remember the first one (from the main titles sequence). Walker took the choir voices Elfman used (for themes such as Descent into Mystery), but in Walker's score they sounded slow and dragged.


Cheers.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Hi schereZada

Forum posts aren't letters to your grandma.

Also Walker's varied and extensive use of memorable leitmotifs easily tops Elfman's one-theme wonder (as great as it may be).

Warm and sincere regards,
Everyone

 

[schereZada]

Hi schereZada

Forum posts aren't letters to your grandma.

Also Walker's varied and extensive use of memorable leitmotifs easily tops Elfman's one-theme wonder (as great as it may be).

Warm and sincere regards,
Everyone

Hi granny Phantasm.

I'm sure Walker wrote more leitmotifs than Elfman. She had a whole bunch of series and Elfman just two movies. Thing is, Elfman's one bat-theme is in everyone's head and Walker's many themes barely so.


Cheers.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Grandson or granddaughter,

I love Elfman's theme but Walker's is definitely the one "in my head." I recommend listening to the extended score for MOTP if you haven't already.

Also, would it hurt you to give your Grandfather and myself a call? We don't send you that birthday check each year to be ignored.

Warm percolations,

 

[schereZada]

Grandson or granddaughter,

I love Elfman's theme but Walker's is definitely the one "in my head." I recommend listening to the extended score for MOTP if you haven't already.

Also, would it hurt you to give your Grandfather and myself a call? We don't send you that birthday check each year to be ignored.

Warm percolations,

Hi there, ThePhantasm.

I'm sure it's in your head. I was talking about a broader spectrum of people, which is a way to see if a theme tops another similar theme. One person is not enough.

Stop behaving like an old hag that can't take a kind way of posting just because you can't get over a person disagreeing with you and I'll send you a Christmas card.

And I'm a granddaughter.


Cheers.

 

[The Joker]

Hi schereZada

Forum posts aren't letters to your grandma.

Also Walker's varied and extensive use of memorable leitmotifs easily tops Elfman's one-theme wonder (as great as it may be).

Warm and sincere regards,
Everyone

Saves me the effort of replying

And yes, since Phantasm brought it up, there is no need for this 'Hi there' and 'Cheers' stuff in every post, scherezada. I know you're probably just trying to be friendly, but it's not necessary and it comes off as really pretentious.

I'm sure it's in your head. I was talking about a broader spectrum of people, which is a way to see if a theme tops another similar theme. One person is not enough.

Well of course it would be in more people's heads. The movies will have reached a wider range of people than the Saturday morning cartoon ever did.

Just because it's in more people's heads doesn't make it better.

 

[schereZada]

Saves me the effort of replying

And yes, since Phantasm brought it up, there is no need for this 'Hi there' and 'Cheers' stuff in every post, scherezada. I know you're probably just trying to be friendly, but it's not necessary and it comes off as really pretentious.



Well of course it would be in more people's heads. The movies will have reached a wider range of people than the Saturday morning cartoon ever did.

Just because it's in more people's heads doesn't make it better.

Hi there, Joker.

How about you post the way you want and I post the way I want? Does it sound fair for you? Goody. Trying to tell other posters how they can or can't post is actually more pretentious than saying hello with a smile. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate someone else telling you how to post. You're also free to not reply to me or having me in your ignore list if you can't handle it.

Memorability is a way to measure how much music connects with your sensibilities. It's not that we're comparing two different styles. Both bat-themes are very similar in style (Walker shaped her bat-theme after Elfman's).


Cheers.

 

[BrollySupersj]

I wouldn't really say Walker's theme "easily" tops Elfman's works. But it is a worthy challenger. While I do have a slight preference for Elfman's music, I consider both themes for Batman to constantly be neck and neck. But that's me. Either can be a definitive theme for Batman.

 

[The Joker]

Hi there, Joker.

How about you post the way you want and I post the way I want? Does it sound fair for you? Goody. Trying to tell other posters how they can or can't post is actually more pretentious than saying hello with a smile. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate someone else telling you how to post. You're also free to not reply to me or having me in your ignore list if you can't handle it.

I'm not telling you how to do anything. Did I say stop or don't do it? No. I said it wasn't necessary and sounds pretentious. Like Phantasm said, it sounds like you're writing to your grandparents or something in every post.

Memorability is a way to measure how much music connects with your sensibilities. It's not that we're comparing two different styles. Both bat-themes are very similar in style (Walker shaped her bat-theme after Elfman's).

That would only be applicable if you were comparing music from two multi million dollar movies of equal or close success. You'd know it reached the ears of the worldwide audience.

BTAS, while being infinitely superior to Burton's movies, did not reach the masses the way Batman '89 did. 1989 was the year of Batmania. Nothing BTAS did attracted that level of attention or success. So how could people remember Walker's theme more when most would not even know it? A Saturday morning cartoon can't compete with that.

Personally I think Walker's Batman theme is better, even though it is based off Elfman's.

 

[Doc Ock]

The music was so incredible too. It's still my favorite Batman theme song.

This is my first time hearing the score separate of the film. Merlin's. Beard. Gave me chills! It's been a long time since I watched Phantasm as well, been holding out for a Blu-Ray release that may never come.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Hi there, ThePhantasm.

I'm sure it's in your head. I was talking about a broader spectrum of people, which is a way to see if a theme tops another similar theme. One person is not enough.

Stop behaving like an old hag that can't take a kind way of posting just because you can't get over a person disagreeing with you and I'll send you a Christmas card.

And I'm a granddaughter.

Cheers.

Hi there, granddaughter (as far as I can tell without my glasses on)

I love how in your letter to me you say my opinion doesn't count because I'm one person, but then if someone disagrees with your one opinion they "can't get over" it. Your one opinion is worth more than my one opinion somehow because more people have heard the Elfman theme than the Walker theme? I see. I'll be recommending to your mother a suitable course on critical thinking, statistical comparisons, and logic.

An introductory preview: correlation does not imply causation. The fact that more people know the Elfman theme doesn't mean that the Elfman theme is better than the Walker theme. It only means it has been more widely distributed, and thus more people have heard it. Your argument from the majority would only hold water if everyone had heard both themes and yet had overwhelmingly chosen the Elfman one.

Someone's getting a coal in their stocking!

Your disgruntled and discombobulated elder,

 

[Elevator Man]

What an interesting coincidence that I happen to be listening to LLLR BTAS Vol. 2 (Walker "Nothing To Fear" at the moment). Thanks to Vol 3 I've getting a kick off of the B:TAS scores again. I can't pick between Elfman and Walker. Both did an incredible job. Elfman set the bar and tone while Walker perfected his approach. However I can see how Walker could be the victor to some. A lot of her scores to BTAS with MOTP are brilliant, imo. Easily some of the best music written for TV and for a comic book character, imo. Can't praise Walker and her team enough.

Walker and Elfman's particular bat scores leave TDKT music in the dust, imo.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Walker and Elfman's particular bat scores leave TDKT music in the dust, imo.

Oh, no doubt about that. Zimmer is a talented composer, I just wish he had brought some of that talent to his Batman scores instead of the mindless droning noise that he produced.

 

[Elevator Man]

Agreed. Such a shame.

 

[Keehar]

Walker > Zimmer > Elfman

 

[The Caped Knight]

I love Shirley Walker theme of Batman, even more than Elfman's especially from Batman: Mask of The Phantasm




Even her rebrand theme in The Adventures of Batman & Robin was awesome. The end credit theme for Batman is heroic

 

[schereZada]

I'm not telling you how to do anything. Did I say stop or don't do it? No. I said it wasn't necessary and sounds pretentious. Like Phantasm said, it sounds like you're writing to your grandparents or something in every post.



That would only be applicable if you were comparing music from two multi million dollar movies of equal or close success. You'd know it reached the ears of the worldwide audience.

BTAS, while being infinitely superior to Burton's movies, did not reach the masses the way Batman '89 did. 1989 was the year of Batmania. Nothing BTAS did attracted that level of attention or success. So how could people remember Walker's theme more when most would not even know it? A Saturday morning cartoon can't compete with that.

Personally I think Walker's Batman theme is better, even though it is based off Elfman's.

Hello Joker.

Since my posting style has nothing to do with the subject, all I can think is that it's a personal remark to discourage me from posting (if not, what other purpose could that comment have?). But I won't stop posting here nor my posting style will change, so it makes no difference.

BTAS started in 1992, after the not-too-successful Batman Returns, when the 1989 batmania had declined. And it returned in 1997, loooooong after the Burton's Batman movies popularity had disappeared, five years later people heard the Elfman theme in Batman Returns. And still Walker's theme didn't become a referent for the character. BTAS was a popular multi-awarded series (and Walker got some of those nominations and awards herself) and it also had its chance on the big screen too with Mask of the Phantasm. But it didn't work as expected (otherwise, we would have probably had sequels). So both versions (Burton's and BTAS) had their chance, one didn't top the other. One of the most popular Spider-man themes is the old 1967 cartoon's one, so a Saturday morning cartoon, even a 27 year old one, can still get your theme known and memorable. Even people who never saw that TV series have that theme as a referent of Spider-man. And we can agree that Spider-man movies are far more popular and successful than those cartoons). It didn't happen that way with Walker, as good as her score was. My opinion? It was too much of an Elfman variation to be its own thing.

But you haven't told me which Mask of the Phantasm themes you consider better than the ones I mentioned from Danny Elfman. That could illustrate your point of how Walker's score topped Elfman's much better, me thinks.


Cheers.

Hi there, granddaughter (as far as I can tell without my glasses on)

I love how in your letter to me you say my opinion doesn't count because I'm one person, but then if someone disagrees with your one opinion they "can't get over" it. Your one opinion is worth more than my one opinion somehow because more people have heard the Elfman theme than the Walker theme? I see. I'll be recommending to your mother a suitable course on critical thinking, statistical comparisons, and logic.

An introductory preview: correlation does not imply causation. The fact that more people know the Elfman theme doesn't mean that the Elfman theme is better than the Walker theme. It only means it has been more widely distributed, and thus more people have heard it. Your argument from the majority would only hold water if everyone had heard both themes and yet had overwhelmingly chosen the Elfman one.

Someone's getting a coal in their stocking!

Your disgruntled and discombobulated elder,

Howdy, ThePhantasm.

Your aging shows; I didn't say any of that. Your opinion counts. A lot, which is why I'm interested in replying to you. But if I say that Elfman's theme has become a referent amongst people and Walker hasn't, saying that it isn't like that for you doesn't deny or refute what I said. To me, how many people have heard Elfman's or Walker's theme it's not that important, but how many remember them. BTAS was a very successful, well regarded, multi-awarded series, had movies, etc, and many people that are now adult saw it as children. But you don't see Walker's theme as a Batman reference of Batman too often (as I mentioned to The Joker, Spider-man's 1967 theme achieved that even when more people today have seen the movies than those cartoons). All I asked was how or when Walker's score topped Elfman (not if a certain poster here likes it better, which anyone is entitled to), I still don't know.

If you think I only like what's more successful or popular, I don't. I still like Burton's first Batman movie more than Nolans films, even when they're universally considered better. But hey, my opinion counts. And funnily enough Elfman's theme is still more of a referent of Batman than Zimmer's score, even when the latter belongs to a far more successful series that more people have seen.



Cheers.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Shierly Walker also gave us some very memorable themes such The Joker theme and other villain themes like (Mr. Freeze, Two-face, The Penguin, Mad Hatter, Man-Bat, The Riddler, Scarecrow, Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn etc&#8230

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9fuuaU5IP0&list=PL54779986E25DC998

 

[BH/HHH]

Been rewatching some scenes from Mask of the Phantasm. My god I forgot how so ****ing good that movie was. The way they handled Bruce's transition into being Batman. How he wanted forgiveness from his parents about wanting to call the whole thing off. That's deep stuff to me.

And then his actual transition into Batman in the batcave, where Alfred hands him the mask. Chilling, absolutely chilling.

THE best Batman film ever made, including the Nolan series, the Burton-Schumacher series, the 66 Batman film and anything else that is classed as a Batman movie.

Yeah that scene is superb, one of my faves.

 

[The Joker]

Hello Joker.

Since my posting style has nothing to do with the subject, all I can think is that it's a personal remark to discourage me from posting (if not, what other purpose could that comment have?).

I didn't bring up your posting style. Someone else did. I just backed up what they were saying since they mentioned it. Then you again wrongly assumed I was trying to tell you what to do. You can post this way all you want. I'm just telling you what your posting style looks like. I've thought this since you first joined, but never bothered to mention it because I don't care enough. I only mentioned it because someone else raised it first in a conversation I was involved in.

Capice?

BTAS started in 1992, after the not-too-successful Batman Returns, when the 1989 batmania had declined. And it returned in 1997, loooooong after the Burton's Batman movies popularity had disappeared, five years later people heard the Elfman theme in Batman Returns. And still Walker's theme didn't become a referent for the character. BTAS was a popular multi-awarded series (and Walker got some of those nominations and awards herself) and it also had its chance on the big screen too with Mask of the Phantasm. But it didn't work as expected (otherwise, we would have probably had sequels). So both versions (Burton's and BTAS) had their chance, one didn't top the other. One of the most popular Spider-man themes is the old 1967 cartoon's one, so a Saturday morning cartoon, even a 27 year old one, can still get your theme known and memorable. Even people who never saw that TV series have that theme as a referent of Spider-man. And we can agree that Spider-man movies are far more popular and successful than those cartoons). It didn't happen that way with Walker, as good as her score was. My opinion? It was too much of an Elfman variation to be its own thing.

Oh boy where to start here;

1. What difference does it make that the show came three years after Batman '89, or came back in 1997? You're not getting it. It's still a Saturday morning cartoon show. It never, repeat never got the level of attention or reached the number of masses that Burton's Batman did. You cannot compare a Saturday morning cartoon show to a cultural phenomenon movie like Batman '89. It's ridiculous.

2. So what if Walker or the show was nominated for some awards? I could name several shows that got the same and I bet most people here would not even have heard of them or be aware of their theme music.

3. The 1967 Spider-Man cartoon theme is pretty much the only famous theme Spider-Man ever had. It's the equivalent to the 1966 Batman theme. This is not the kind of theme you can hum to yourself:

[YT]DZGN9fZvQhc[/YT]

Not to mention the 60's one is more a song than a theme. That's why Michael Buble made a song of it:

[YT]9WQJg5fP0U8[/YT]

And it was thanks to Raimi's movies using it in both Spider-Man 1 and 2 that it got more famous. That's why you hear it in the likes of The Simpsons movie parodying it with Spider-Pig, which came well after the Raimi movies. Movies make something more famous. That was my original point.

But you haven't told me which Mask of the Phantasm themes you consider better than the ones I mentioned from Danny Elfman. That could illustrate your point of how Walker's score topped Elfman's much better, me thinks.

Pretty much all of them. The opening theme, Phantasm's graveyard murder, birth of Batman, Phantasm and Joker fight, Batman's destiny, Andrea remembers, First love etc. I think the whole soundtrack is better. And that's just MOTP. Haven't even touched the show itself.

 

[The Shape]

I wonder which previously banned user schereZada is.