The Official Batman TAS Thread - Part 2

[-Arya-]

Sounds very close to someone with a name beginning with the letter Z.

 

[schereZada]

I didn't bring up your posting style. Someone else did. I just backed up what they were saying since they mentioned it. Then you again wrongly assumed I was trying to tell you what to do. You can post this way all you want. I'm just telling you what your posting style looks like. I've thought this since you first joined, but never bothered to mention it because I don't care enough. I only mentioned it because someone else raised it first in a conversation I was involved in.

Capice?



Oh boy where to start here;

1. What difference does it make that the show came three years after Batman '89, or came back in 1997? You're not getting it. It's still a Saturday morning cartoon show. It never, repeat never got the level of attention or reached the number of masses that Burton's Batman did. You cannot compare a Saturday morning cartoon show to a cultural phenomenon movie like Batman '89. It's ridiculous.

2. So what if Walker or the show was nominated for some awards? I could name several shows that got the same and I bet most people here would not even have heard of them or be aware of their theme music.

3. The 1967 Spider-Man cartoon theme is pretty much the only famous theme Spider-Man ever had. It's the equivalent to the 1966 Batman theme. This is not the kind of theme you can hum to yourself:

[YT]DZGN9fZvQhc[/YT]

Not to mention the 60's one is more a song than a theme. That's why Michael Buble made a song of it:

[YT]9WQJg5fP0U8[/YT]

And it was thanks to Raimi's movies using it in both Spider-Man 1 and 2 that it got more famous. That's why you hear it in the likes of The Simpsons movie parodying it with Spider-Pig, which came well after the Raimi movies. Movies make something more famous. That was my original point.



Pretty much all of them. The opening theme, Phantasm's graveyard murder, birth of Batman, Phantasm and Joker fight, Batman's destiny, Andrea remembers, First love etc. I think the whole soundtrack is better. And that's just MOTP. Haven't even touched the show itself.

Hi, The Joker. Yes, good to know being harsh is logically justifiable because, after all, the other kid started it. Thanks for your input on my posting style, it means a lot. I have decided to change it for a while so I can get rid of more uncalled harshness for a while.

Sure, we can dissect that post and find an excuse for every aspect of BTAS, but that series was still popular (during Burton era and after Burton era) enough to have spawned a theme that could have become a referent for Batman and it didn't. It doesn't mean it's a bad score at all, just not as iconic, which is why I don't think it topped Elfman's. I listened to the Mask of the Phantasm score last night and effectively, couldn't find something as iconic and energetic as Descent into Mystery or the other themes I mentioned.

And yes, Spider-man theme is more like a song even when the tune without the words is iconic and popular enough. And it was years before Raimi came over.

So, now, cut this post in tiny pieces and reply each of them separately. There's not much more here to be done.

I wonder which previously banned user schereZada is.

*head aches*

Seriously...?

Boy, it's tiring to become a member in these forums. Even when most of the members are nice.

 

[The Joker]

Hi, The Joker. Yes, good to know being harsh is logically justifiable because, after all, the other kid started it. Thanks for your input on my posting style, it means a lot. I have decided to change it for a while so I can get rid of more uncalled harshness for a while.

I'm not trying to justify anything. ThePhantasm did nothing wrong critiquing the way you post. Nor did I for agreeing with him. I said I believe you are most likely trying to be friendly posting that way but it's not necessary and comes across as very false. That's not a personal insult. Your posting style was criticized, not you, your family, or your best friend. So don't try and play the victim.

It's no different to critiquing someone for posting in huge chunks of text rather than using paragraphs.

Sure, we can dissect that post and find an excuse for every aspect of BTAS, but that series was still popular (during Burton era and after Burton era) enough to have spawned a theme that could have become a referent for Batman and it didn't. It doesn't mean it's a bad score at all, just not as iconic, which is why I don't think it topped Elfman's. I listened to the Mask of the Phantasm score last night and effectively, couldn't find something as iconic and energetic as Descent into Mystery or the other themes I mentioned.

The reason it is not as iconic as Elfman's is because it's just a Saturday morning cartoon. It can't compete with a cultural phenomenon movie for iconic status like that. That's why it's not referent. Something being more famous doesn't make it better.

You listened to the MOTP score and you don't think it's better than Elfman's. So what? I already knew that. Is this suppose to be some new revelation that proves something?

And yes, Spider-man theme is more like a song even when the tune without the words is iconic and popular enough. And it was years before Raimi came over.

Find me some examples pre 2002 where it was referenced in pop culture like it is since Raimi's movies came out.

 

[Travesty]

I still prefer Elfman's, but Walker's is an incredibly close second.

Zimmer's was just there. Nothing really stood out. Maybe a few scenes in BB, but for the most part, I'm not a huge fan. I wasn't really diggin his MOS score, either. And both his Batman and Superman scores aren't horrible, but nothing really stands out. It's almost background noise. It's one of the few things about BvS I'm not excited about. But we'll see, maybe he'll surprise me.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Sure, we can dissect that post and find an excuse for every aspect of BTAS, but that series was still popular (during Burton era and after Burton era) enough to have spawned a theme that could have become a referent for Batman and it didn't. It doesn't mean it's a bad score at all, just not as iconic, which is why I don't think it topped Elfman's.

BTAS used the Elfman theme in the opening and closing credits for several seasons. It was late in the game that they decided to allow Shirley Walker's theme to shine (again, roughly after MOTP). So the popularity of the series "spawning" a theme that would be a referent for Batman had nothing to do with it, since for a long while they were contractually obligated to use the Elfman theme anyways.

 

[BrollySupersj]

THE best Batman film ever made, including the Nolan series, the Burton-Schumacher series, the 66 Batman film and anything else that is classed as a Batman movie.

Yeah that scene is superb, one of my faves.

I'm beginning to agree with such a statement. MOTP has all we could ever want in a Batman movie. It has superb potentional to dethrone Batman 89 as my all time favorite Batman movie.

 

[The Shape]

*head aches*

Seriously...?

Boy, it's tiring to become a member in these forums. Even when most of the members are nice.

Hey, you didn't start your reply to me with "Hi theShape" and that really hurt my feelings.

 

[WingedAvenger89]

Walker topped Elfman.

How? She built her entire BTAS, and MOTP score off Elfman's Batman '89 template. Anyway, If I were to rank them:

Zimmer's Rises
Zimmer's TDK
Zimmer / Howard's BEGINS
Elfman's 1989
Walker's MOTP
Elfman's Returns

 

[ThePhantasm]

If you think MOTP was built off of Elfman's template and not a series of brand new leitmotifs in its own right, you are very very mistaken.

 

[WingedAvenger89]

If you think MOTP was built off of Elfman's template and not a series of brand new leitmotifs in its own right, you are very very mistaken.

I'm pretty sure the stuido mandated the synergy of her making her BTAS series score based off Elfmans from the mega blockbuster, Batman '89. I might be mistaken, but I'm fairly certain that was the case.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Elfman specifically recommended her for the job. But she created her own themes both for the show and MOTP. Elfman's theme was for the most part only used in the main credits for the show, and made no appearance in MOTP at all.

 

[Dave McFly]

I liked that some of the early TAS episodes used bits of the Elfman movie music mainly the episodes "Nothing To Fear" "The Last Laugh" "On Leather Wings". My fave use of it is in the "The Last Laugh" mainly when Batman chases after Joker in the scrap yard.


2:20 mark

 

[Elevator Man]

Agreed. I love how in the POV ep Walker adapted it for a brief moment during the climax at the dock as Batman takes control of a forklift.

 

[BH/HHH]

I'm beginning to agree with such a statement. MOTP has all we could ever want in a Batman movie. It has superb potentional to dethrone Batman 89 as my all time favorite Batman movie.

both awesome movies though

 

[schereZada]

I'm not trying to justify anything. ThePhantasm did nothing wrong critiquing the way you post. Nor did I for agreeing with him. I said I believe you are most likely trying to be friendly posting that way but it's not necessary and comes across as very false. That's not a personal insult. Your posting style was criticized, not you, your family, or your best friend. So don't try and play the victim.

It's no different to critiquing someone for posting in huge chunks of text rather than using paragraphs.



The reason it is not as iconic as Elfman's is because it's just a Saturday morning cartoon. It can't compete with a cultural phenomenon movie for iconic status like that. That's why it's not referent. Something being more famous doesn't make it better.

You listened to the MOTP score and you don't think it's better than Elfman's. So what? I already knew that. Is this suppose to be some new revelation that proves something?



Find me some examples pre 2002 where it was referenced in pop culture like it is since Raimi's movies came out.

Hi there, The Joker. There's plenty of Saturday morning cartoons whose themes are highly recognizable, even to people who haven't seen those shows. GI Joe, He-Man and the Masters of the Universe, Thundercats, Transformers, The Flintstones, The Smurfs, Inspector Gadget, Scooby Doo, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. BTAS is not one of them. Walker's score seems to be too close to Elfman's to be its own thing. But being a Saturday morning cartoon doesn't stop a composer to make a highly recognizable iconic theme.

You think BTAS is infinitely superior to Burton's movies, then why wasn't its impact bigger when Mask of the Phantasm was released theatrically? Your opinion seems to be in a minority here.

About Spider-man theme: before 2002, plenty of musicians and video games took the 1967 Spider-man theme. Michael Bublé in 2001, Brian May reinterpreted the theme for the 1995 BBC Radio 1 serial, Moxy Früvous in the 1993 album Bargainville, the Mr. T Experience on their 1989 album Big Black Bugs Bleed Blue Blood, Gilman Street punk band Stikky on their 1988 EP Cuddle, the Ramones in 1995, Nintendo of America also parodied the song in a Bomberman 64 commercial during the 1997 holiday season, Jazz Trumpeter Woody Shaw recorded the theme in 1983, Big John Bates covered the song in 2001.In the 1992 video game Spider-Man and the X-Men in Arcade's Revenge for the Super Nintendo and Sega Genesis, a distinct musical reference to the first line of the song can be heard at the 1:50 mark in the music for the levels featuring Spider-Man. Nintendo of America also parodied the song in a Bomberman 64 commercial during the 1997 holiday season. On the syndicated radio program, The John Boy and Billy Big Show, a recurring segment called Married Man uses a parody of the Spider-Man theme as its theme song. But the biggest one: Sam Raimi. Why would he include the old theme if it was just a Saturday morning cartoon one? Raimi chose it because the impact of the theme was bigger than any other, no matter if it was "just" a cartoon and the 1994 series was more popular.

Not bad for a Saturday morning cartoon, huh? Certainly bigger than Walker's theme impact. Not even Elfman's new Spider-man theme could beat that, so it's not like a hugely successful franchise that's more famous than a Saturday morning cartoon is enough to make a theme iconic.

Ah, yes. I heard the Mask of the Phantasm score. You never know. I might as well have found something of the quality of some of Elfman's egergy and icon nature, sadly I didn't. But I still don't know what your opinion that Walker topped Elfman is based on? Cheers.

BTAS used the Elfman theme in the opening and closing credits for several seasons. It was late in the game that they decided to allow Shirley Walker's theme to shine (again, roughly after MOTP). So the popularity of the series "spawning" a theme that would be a referent for Batman had nothing to do with it, since for a long while they were contractually obligated to use the Elfman theme anyways.

Hi, ThePhantasm. Mask of the Phantasm was a huge chance for everyone involved in BTAS, Walker included. Not many cartoons have a shot at the big screen. Then they had another chance with The New Batman Adventures (five years after Elfman's theme had stopped being the official Batman movies theme). But it didn't have the impact Elfman's theme had, even when Zimmer took over for a whole new trilogy that's currently considered more successful. I think it was Zimmer himself who said once that people kept asking him to make a more Elfman-esque thme for Nolan movies. That's a testamet of Elfman's theme influence. And that's saying nothing bad about Walker.

Hey, you didn't start your reply to me with "Hi theShape" and that really hurt my feelings.

Hey, theShape. Your feelings were hurt because you're a shiny little butterfly in a cruel dark world. Never change. I'm sorry I didn't put a smiley face to you.

How? She built her entire BTAS, and MOTP score off Elfman's Batman '89 template. Anyway, If I were to rank them:

Hello, WingedAvenger. That's what I've been saying for a while. I thought it was fairly obvious. Cheers.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Hi, ThePhantasm. Mask of the Phantasm was a huge chance for everyone involved in BTAS, Walker included. Not many cartoons have a shot at the big screen. Then they had another chance with The New Batman Adventures (five years after Elfman's theme had stopped being the official Batman movies theme). But it didn't have the impact Elfman's theme had, even when Zimmer took over for a whole new trilogy that's currently considered more successful. I think it was Zimmer himself who said once that people kept asking him to make a more Elfman-esque thme for Nolan movies. That's a testamet of Elfman's theme influence. And that's saying nothing bad about Walker.

I've explained why, you've just ignored that reason in favor of repeating the same argument ad nauseum.

 

[schereZada]

I've explained why, you've just ignored that reason in favor of repeating the same argument ad nauseum.

Hi. A theatrical movie in 1993 was not a small chance that appeared late in the game to me. But ok, agree to disagree. Cheers.

 

[BatLobster]

Ironically though, Zimmer did work as a synth player on the MOTP score, and I definitely hear a vague similarity in certain bits of phrasing between Walker's theme and the "Dark Knight" suite that plays at the end of TDK/R.

I'm also of the belief that Walker's theme is the best Batman theme ever composed. However, it's all so subjective, so people should relax.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Hi. A theatrical movie in 1993 was not a small chance that appeared late in the game to me. But ok, agree to disagree. Cheers.

I have no idea what this means, but okay.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I'm also of the belief that Walker's theme is the best Batman theme ever composed. However, it's all so subjective, so people should relax.

I agree. Which is why the assertion that Elfman's theme is somehow better because it has had more "impact" strikes me as an absurd argument. Especially given that his theme had far more exposure than Walker's.

 

[schereZada]

I have no idea what this means, but okay.

Oh. I was talking about Mask of the Phantasm, a theatrically released movie that could compete in every aspect with Burton's movies and where Walker could have shown the world a better and iconic Batman theme that might have been regarded as the pinnacle of Batman scores.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Oh. I was talking about Mask of the Phantasm, a theatrically released movie that could compete in every aspect with Burton's movies and where Walker could have shown the world a better and iconic Batman theme.

No it couldn't. It had a very limited release for one week, and nowhere near the exposure that Burton's films had. There's just no comparison between the massive year long marketing blitz that Batman '89 had and the way in which MOTP just sort of showed up last minute in theaters without hardly any marketing at all. If you think the two theatrical releases are anywhere comparable you're kidding yourself.

 

[BatLobster]

You're still comparing an animated film that was for all intents and purposes created as a straight to video movie that just happened to play in theaters for like 3 minutes to a huge, global phenomenon live action Batman film.

People are only comparing the two themes musically, not how popular they were. Obviously Elfman's was iconic.

 

[The Shape]

Hey, theShape. Your feelings were hurt because you're a shiny little butterfly in a cruel dark world. Never change. I'm sorry I didn't put a smiley face to you.

Thank you. I appreciate that, milost.

 

[BatLobster]

Hahahaha