The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 4

[DarthSkywalker]

Sure, Manny wasn't classic Manny. But there are 0 ways in which he lost this fight.

If you are Teddy Atlas and Stephen A. Smith, yeah.

 

[Warhammer]

I didn't watch the fight but it looks like Pacquaio/Bradley all over again judging by the internet's reaction to Horn winning. A damn shame really.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I didn't watch the fight but it looks like Pacquaio/Bradley all over again judging by the internet's reaction to Horn winning. A damn shame really.

If you mean a much closer fight that Manny probably won, but is only being called an outrage because the announcers (mainly Teddy Atlas) are hyping Manny the entire time, yes.

Also, this might be the most obvious Compubox error in recent memory. It was so clear they weren't counting Horn's landed punches and counting a lot of glancing glove shots for Manny, and it skewed perception.

The best bit was right before the end of the fight. Bradley said he had it a lot closer then Teddy and then added they were in Argentina (it was actually Australia). I wanted him to start laughing in Teddy's face super hard. It would have been so funny.

 

[Warhammer]

Well, if the powers that be wanted a rematch for more $$$, they got it. Congratulations to the judges.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well, if the powers that be wanted a rematch for more $$$, they got it. Congratulations to the judges.

The powers wanted Manny to whip the guy who isn't any good. That the guy made it to the bell and took 4 clear rounds was not good for Manny's hope of that Mayweather rematch payday.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Pac man got screwed. That was a home guy decision If I ever saw one.

 

[Docker2.0]

I actually think this is more arum than anything. Why? Fighting a no name on his country when you are the champion and and losing....... It makes no sense. This could be Arum building up his next guy, if he is his guy.

 

[Poetic Chaos]

Australia gets them more ticket buys since Horn is a nobody in the states.

 

[Iceman]

Shame if the judges made a bad call (I haven't see the fight) but it always seems strange when there is a big difference in the split between the judge scoring it most in one fighter's favour and the one calling it the most extreme in the other direction.

 

[Spade]

On the bright side, I love schadenfreude, so the general reaction has been a goldmine. I've been laughing on and off since the call was made.

 

[Doc Samson]

I'm so sick and tired of every fight decision now being some sort of "robbery" or conspiracy. I really hope somebody gets stopped for Canelo-GGG, so that maybe we can avoid all that crap.

Anyone being objective can't possibly say Manny won any of the first 7 rounds definitively. They were all pretty debatable. And bottom line, he didn't finish the guy when he could've. Like he would've 8 years ago.

Always felt Manny was the type to keep fighting way past his prime, most of them do I guess, but I hope he reconsiders using that rematch clause...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm so sick and tired of every fight decision now being some sort of "robbery" or conspiracy. I really hope somebody gets stopped for Canelo-GGG, so that maybe we can avoid all that crap.

Anyone being objective can't possibly say Manny won any of the first 7 rounds definitively. They were all pretty debatable. And bottom line, he didn't finish the guy when he could've. Like he would've 8 years ago.

Always felt Manny was the type to keep fighting way past his prime, most of them do I guess, but I hope he reconsiders using that rematch clause...

I haven't watched it in depth again, but there were probably a couple rounds in the first half you could definitively give to Manny. That said, plenty were toss ups and Manny wasn't the one going forward. He also clearly lost 10 and 12.

One interesting aspect here about Manny's contract. That was the last fight he had for Top Rank, just like the first Bradley fight.

 

[Docker2.0]

I haven't watched it in depth again, but there were probably a couple rounds in the first half you could definitively give to Manny. That said, plenty were toss ups and Manny wasn't the one going forward. He also clearly lost 10 and 12.

One interesting aspect here about Manny's contract. That was the last fight he had for Top Rank, just like the first Bradley fight.

Exactly! That's what I'm saying! I said from the jump that this is Bob Arum. I had Manny winning by 4 rounds but won't scream robbery. I really think Manny wanted to help in the PI but Arum won't let it go. Don't be surprised if this ends up being a trilogy.

 

[B]

More ****housery in boxing once again, those sorts of decisions are one of the reasons I go through phases of watching boxing with any sort of regularity.

Pacquiao wasn't at his best that's for certain, Pacquiao of 5-8 years ago would have finished Horn, but that's besides the point. I cannot for the life of me see how Horn not only won the fight, but won it unanimously in the eyes of 3 judges.. particularly the one judge that scored it something like 117-111 , absolutely ridiculous, shouldn't be allowed to watch boxing ever again let alone judge or have any further involvement in the sport.

I've seen the CompuBox & various punch statistics from the fight & they reflect what I felt was watching. Pacquiao was doing the cleaner work, messy by his own high standards, but much cleaner than Horn. He was coming out of the majority of the exchanges with the better & more cleanly landed trades IMO.

If you were being generous, you could award the closer rounds in favour of Horn, but even in doing so at best you should come out with a draw. Ridiculous judging IMO.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I thought the best he could get was a draw, but that is why 115-113 wasn't horrible imo. but 117-111 is an all time bad scorecard.

 

[the last son]

Floyd the person I actually can't stand, but the boxer is a genius. Seriously. In his prime he was like a surgeon hitting body parts at precision pace. In his prime you would have been afraid to fight him. Look at him vs Gatti that was scary good.

 

[Adder]

Pacquiao is not elite anymore despite deserving the win. Rematch then have the winner fight crawford. He owns manny at this point.

 

[Doc Samson]

Even in his prime, I don't think Manny wanted any problems with Crawford. I respect Manny's career, but he built his name primarily on guys who were made to order, slow & plodding brawlers. Or they were getting up there in age. Either way, I don't think anybody who cares about him should allow him to compete against elite talent ever again.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

In his prime, Manny and Crawford would be a great fight. Manny at his best on PEDs, was great. The only guy to give him trouble is an all timer, tough as nails.

 

[Doc Samson]

In his prime, and on PEDs, Marquez gave him problems. He would've been food for Crawford or anybody else who didn't come straight forward with their face first.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

In his prime, and on PEDs, Marquez gave him problems. He would've been food for Crawford or anybody else who didn't come straight forward with their face first.

Marquez is that all timer I was speaking of. An incredibly skilled boxer, tough as hell. Crawford ain't on Marquez left yet. Not close.

Using your theory, Manny should have lost to Morales, Cotto and Barrera every time he fought them. His speed would cause trouble for Crawford, especially considering how hard he could hit for someone so small. Crawford was losing to little Gamboa until he tired. Prime Manny moved a lot faster, and didn't get tired, and hit a lot harder.

 

[Doc Samson]

Marquez is that all timer I was speaking of. An incredibly skilled boxer, tough as hell. Crawford ain't on Marquez left yet. Not close.

Using your theory, Manny should have lost to Morales, Cotto and Barrera every time he fought them. His speed would cause trouble for Crawford, especially considering how hard he could hit for someone so small.

I actually think he did lose to Morales.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I actually think he did lose to Morales.

Yes, and then he carved him into pieces twice. That is why I said, "every time he fought them". And of course, that wasn't prime Pacman. Prime Pacman is the one who murdered Hatton and Cotto. Crawford lost 4 rounds to Gamboa. You don't think Manny at this best wasn't a little bit better then a Gamboa pass his best, in a weightclass way too big for him?

 

[Doc Samson]

I don't know, I think Crawford would've picked him apart without too much trouble. For all his strengths, defense wasn't one of them.

And the amount of gives he...gives if you will, would've made him food. Every time he stopped bouncing and tried to plant, Floyd was tagging him. He couldn't get off the whole fight off of one little give. Simple things like that a tactical boxer exploits, he's never been tough to figure out...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't know, I think Crawford would've picked him apart without too much trouble. For all his strengths, defense wasn't one of them.

And the amount of gives he...gives if you will, would've made him food. Every time he stopped bouncing and tried to plant, Floyd was tagging him. He couldn't get off the whole fight off of one little give. Simple things like that a tactical boxer exploits, he's never been tough to figure out...

Floyd Mayweather is a much better boxer then Crawford, who himself is wild all the time. Floyd's defense and speed flummoxed an injured Manny, who was past his prime and had recently been slept.

Manny not being "tough to figure out" is meaningless, because he was an all time athlete, with a combination of speed and power not rivaled in boxing. Look what he did to Cotto, and what Floyd did with an even worse Cotto.