The Official Choose A Director Thread

[El Payaso]

The part I highlighted in bold is what I agree with, I also think the director should respect the character. I don't think being a "fan" of the comics or knowing every little detail is a pre-requisite. Nolan respects and understands Batman, but he's not a Batman fanboy. We need a director with that sort of approach for Superman.

Oh yes.

 

[stargazer]

I'd like to see him say that he's going to ditch the Donnerverse and consult all the various incarnations of Superman, like the comics (both early and more recent) and the cartoon.

And why do they have to ignore or "ditch" the Donnerverse altogether if worldwide it is the most popular and recognizable version of Superman like ever? I think they should try to incorporate parts or elements from ALL incarnations of Superman.

That would be good. I actually would love to hear a director state elements of TAS would serve as part of the template. *drools*

Every fanboy's dream.

Not mine

 

[stargazer]

I get what you're saying and agree with the spirit of it, but imagine if McG got the gig and said "Yeah I'm gonna ignore the old movies altogether and do my own thing with it."

I highly doubt any filmmaker would so forcefully say he or she would totally ignore Donner's films.

They could say they're doing things we haven't seen in a Superman film and taking it new places, but dissing Donner's work even in the slightest way wouldn't sit well with a lot of people.

Singer was too reliant on Donner's work, true, but that work deserves the respect, imo, of any serious filmmaker attempting a new Superman film.

And when I say respect, I mean moving on. Admiring what the original Superman accomplished in the history of cinema and the pop culture impact it had, but respectfully moving on from it. Sort of like Nolan and Bale respectfully moving on from Burton and Keaton.

Great post.

But I don't see WHY they have to ignore the Donnerverse completely. It doesn't make sense to me. That universe is too ingraned in the populace's consciousness.

 

[stargazer]

Yeah, I know how Hollywood works and wouldn't expect a new director to come out and directly say that he was going to "ditch the Donnerverse." I wouldn't even want him to ignore the Donnerverse entirely but rather incorporate the Donner elements that have found their way into comic canon.

Now, this sounds much better. And I see that you don't read the comics, do you?

 

[stargazer]

An origin story for Superman would be too boring on film. It has already been proven with Superman Returns. Yes he wouldn't be on earth if Krypton hadn't exploded. Yes his psychological disposition relates to his loss of his homeworld etc etc. But that stuff is what dragged down Superman Returns and it is also what continues to see Superman have such saggy sales in the comic market. What makes Superman work is not this burden of dour psycho analysis about some complex he has about being lonely. Nobody wants to watch somebody that mighty spend an hour throwing a pity party. On that note, nobody wants to watch him spew out sermons either.

Superman should be moral, upstanding and brave, but not to this over done extent that has ruined the character some what. That is why Smallville and Lois & Clark were such excellent renditions. They captured what mattered without being bogged down by pseudo-psychology. It's lovely in writing but ****** on screen. When people go to see Superman, they want to see amazing feats and fights. This isn't 1978 when technology was limited like back in Donner's day. They can do Superman action sequences without blinking thanks to computer technology.

.

 

[Christmas]

One thing I'd really love to hear is the director talking about making a more immersive flying experience for the audience. Start right at the beginning of the movie. Show the audience amazing flying effects that we haven't yet seen. One aspect where SR didn't do a great job was in the flying. There were great shots of him flying, but never did you feel you were up there with him. Maybe in the plane rescue but that's it.

Imagine if the flying scenes where shot with IMAX cameras. I'd be ecstatic if the flying was so well done, you really felt a sense of movement staring up at the cinema screen. I think more and more people will enjoy the film if they can, at a visceral level, have fun watching Superman fly at really fast speeds through the atmosphere.

 

[afan]

That Superman is about Adventure / Action and not about Romance!

 

[Christmas]

It's about all of these things.

You can't ignore the relationship between Lois and Superman. That would be bad. It's gotta be more fun though.

 

[El Payaso]

One thing I'd really love to hear is the director talking about making a more immersive flying experience for the audience. Start right at the beginning of the movie. Show the audience amazing flying effects that we haven't yet seen. One aspect where SR didn't do a great job was in the flying. There were great shots of him flying, but never did you feel you were up there with him. Maybe in the plane rescue but that's it.

Imagine if the flying scenes where shot with IMAX cameras. I'd be ecstatic if the flying was so well done, you really felt a sense of movement staring up at the cinema screen. I think more and more people will enjoy the film if they can, at a visceral level, have fun watching Superman fly at really fast speeds through the atmosphere.

For me not only the action sequence but the Superman/Lois flight was awesome and I felt like I was there (so to speak). Specially when Lois can make a line by touching the ocean's surface.

 

[Christmas]

Yeah that stuff was really good. I liked that nighttime flight the first time I saw it and still do.

What I really want to see is more dynamic flying sequences. Take the audience out of their seats a little bit. It's hard to put into words exactly what I'm thinking. When I watch old NASA footage of the video cameras embedded in rockets flying at the upper reaches of the atmosphere, I think I'd like that sense of scope in a modern Superman film.

Just cutting edge film technology to evoke a sense of flying for the audience, is what I'm hoping for.

 

[boog_spin]

i thought the flying was pretty strong...the airplane sequence was great...him flying through the city saving people towards the end was cool..and i liked the nighttime scene as well...during the action flights i thought they showed how fast he was pretty good...

 

[stargazer]

i thought the flying was pretty strong...the airplane sequence was great...him flying through the city saving people towards the end was cool..and i liked the nighttime scene as well...during the action flights i thought they showed how fast he was pretty good...

Yeah, I loved that too. He seemed so powerful! But there is room for improvement, IMO.

Yeah that stuff was really good. I liked that nighttime flight the first time I saw it and still do.

What I really want to see is more dynamic flying sequences. Take the audience out of their seats a little bit. It's hard to put into words exactly what I'm thinking. When I watch old NASA footage of the video cameras embedded in rockets flying at the upper reaches of the atmosphere, I think I'd like that sense of scope in a modern Superman film.

Just cutting edge film technology to evoke a sense of flying for the audience, is what I'm hoping for.

Agreed. And I know what you're talking about. We needed some more closeup shots of real Brandon flying. But I think the Plane rescue flying was excellent. It was very Fleischer-like.

For me not only the action sequence but the Superman/Lois flight was awesome and I felt like I was there (so to speak). Specially when Lois can make a line by touching the ocean's surface.

Yeah, it was beautiful, but I it was also too dark. I could barely see them.

It's about all of these things.

You can't ignore the relationship between Lois and Superman. That would be bad. It's gotta be more fun though.

AGREED.

But it couldn't be too fun with the SR's storyline, yes? It really was a bittersweet love story. And I liked it that way.

 

[afan]

Can we puhleeeez....... stop rehashing SR! in this forum.

 

[JamalYIgle]

[YT][/YT]

Yeah that stuff was really good. I liked that nighttime flight the first time I saw it and still do.

What I really want to see is more dynamic flying sequences. Take the audience out of their seats a little bit. It's hard to put into words exactly what I'm thinking. When I watch old NASA footage of the video cameras embedded in rockets flying at the upper reaches of the atmosphere, I think I'd like that sense of scope in a modern Superman film.

Just cutting edge film technology to evoke a sense of flying for the audience, is what I'm hoping for.

Here's the problem I have with this line of thinking. Didn't they do that with Superman Returns?[YT]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IexEzk6TTSY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IexEzk6TTSY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YT]
i mean seriously, everytime someone says something like this I feel like we weren't watching the same movie.[YT]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VvGIMHWAhnM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VvGIMHWAhnM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YT]
I mean I personally think at certain points for example when the wing falls off the 757 ,we're pretty much on Superman's shoulder, flying with him. The same thing at certain points during the metropolis rescue scenes where her rolls over while flying and fires his heat vision.

 

[BestGirl]

Now, this sounds much better. And I see that you don't read the comics, do you?

That second quote of mine is much closer to what I want. We've already had five Donnerverse movies and the next series needs to get away from that universe in order to establish itself as different. At the same time, I know some Donner elements have become popular or canon and I don't want those to be disregarded.

And yes, I don't read the comics. What I know about them comes from what I glean from this board.

 

[stargazer]

That second quote of mine is much closer to what I want. We've already had five Donnerverse movies and the next series needs to get away from that universe in order to establish itself as different. At the same time, I know some Donner elements have become popular or canon and I don't want those to be disregarded.

And yes, I don't read the comics. What I know about them comes from what I glean from this board.

Yeah. You should really check out some of the comics. The Donner/Singerverses are definitely represented. LOVE it. And what you hear here is not enough, really. You have to see it for yourself.

 

[Arach Knight]

It is a very common problem in a lot of modern Superman stories. Many writers find him unwritable because of his power (not enough villains who can actually threaten him). So what a lot of writers do is turn to this "psychology of Superman" theme that really has gotten old.

-Explore his relationship to humans as a Kryptonian
-Explore his Christ like attributes
-Explore his loneliness as the last of his kind

There are a bunch of sub themes like that, that just make Superman a bore to read these days. That role is sufficiently filled by J'onn the Martian Manhunter. He actually saw his family and homeworld die. Therefore, it makes sense. Also, even though J'onn can shapeshift and pretend to be human, in the end, his true form is not human. Even his adopted form (a hybrid of his true self and a humanoid form) is distinctly different. In fact, that was something that was touched on when J'onn switched outfits and started roaming around as his true self. Why on earth do we need Superman to have the same themes explored when

A)He was not even a month old when Krypton exploded. Therefore he has no genuine mental or emotioanl attachment to it, other than as an idea.

B)His true form is identical to that of a human (so much so that he can even copulate with humans).

C)Superman was raised from infancy to adulthood, by humans, whom he looks similar to.

To me, the idea of this guy longing for a homeworld he never saw and parents he never knew, makes zero sense. In Smallville...Clark feeling lonely makes partial sense. He was the only person on earth who was the way he was (at least for the first several seasons during the kryptonite mutation era). But in the comics, he has encountered so many other beings from other worlds and with fantastic powers, that he can't feel alone. ****, the guy has two cousins with him. J'onn has nobody at all, yet you'd swear that Clark somehow suffered more by the whiny position he often has in the books. I just hate it.

Superman is such an awesoem character, but I feel like he is only that way during the major events or titles that bring him together with other characters (Superman/Batman, Justice League etc). But his lone book...I mean how often can he feel bad for a world he never knew. It's like that book and movie, Face on the Milk Carton. Her genetic parents found her, she had siblings she never knew she had. Her whole genetic family looked just like her. Red hair etc. But at the end of the day, she didn't associate with them. She ran away often and wanted to go back to her real parents. The people who raised her. The people that may not have looked exactly like her, but they were the people she came to know and love. Because no matter how genetics ties her with these other people...she doesn't know them. She wasn't raised by them, so they are not home.

Superman is no different. His home is earth. He is an earth person. He is human, even if genetics say otherwise. So why have writer after writer, bore us to death with more drivel on Krypton and his loneliness. Superman isn't lonely because he is the only Kryptonian. That's just the ******** wool that has been pulled over our eyes for the past however many years since he was slain by Doomsday. I certainly don't want to see more of that in the film. Forget another origin story. Forget Krypton. Focus on how Superman has moved beyond being the Last Son of Krypton. Move on to how he has become the (Hu)Man of Steel.

 

[Christmas]

I'd have to disagree there Arach Knight. Many kids who grow up finding out they were adopted feel a strong desire to know who they're real parents were. Some feel so strongly they seek them out. Some wonder but don't do anything. Some don't think about it.

I can easily accept that as a similar motivation for Supes in SR or elsewhere for wanting to return to Krypton or think about life on Krypton, apart from any other practical reasons he would have. Now granted it shouldn't be debilitating or the only thing he thinks about, but it's just another theme to make the character richer.

 

[DavidTyler]

It is a very common problem in a lot of modern Superman stories. Many writers find him unwritable because of his power (not enough villains who can actually threaten him). So what a lot of writers do is turn to this "psychology of Superman" theme that really has gotten old.

-Explore his relationship to humans as a Kryptonian
-Explore his Christ like attributes
-Explore his loneliness as the last of his kind

There are a bunch of sub themes like that, that just make Superman a bore to read these days. That role is sufficiently filled by J'onn the Martian Manhunter. He actually saw his family and homeworld die. Therefore, it makes sense. Also, even though J'onn can shapeshift and pretend to be human, in the end, his true form is not human. Even his adopted form (a hybrid of his true self and a humanoid form) is distinctly different. In fact, that was something that was touched on when J'onn switched outfits and started roaming around as his true self. Why on earth do we need Superman to have the same themes explored when

A)He was not even a month old when Krypton exploded. Therefore he has no genuine mental or emotioanl attachment to it, other than as an idea.

B)His true form is identical to that of a human (so much so that he can even copulate with humans).

C)Superman was raised from infancy to adulthood, by humans, whom he looks similar to.

To me, the idea of this guy longing for a homeworld he never saw and parents he never knew, makes zero sense. In Smallville...Clark feeling lonely makes partial sense. He was the only person on earth who was the way he was (at least for the first several seasons during the kryptonite mutation era). But in the comics, he has encountered so many other beings from other worlds and with fantastic powers, that he can't feel alone. ****, the guy has two cousins with him. J'onn has nobody at all, yet you'd swear that Clark somehow suffered more by the whiny position he often has in the books. I just hate it.

Superman is such an awesoem character, but I feel like he is only that way during the major events or titles that bring him together with other characters (Superman/Batman, Justice League etc). But his lone book...I mean how often can he feel bad for a world he never knew. It's like that book and movie, Face on the Milk Carton. Her genetic parents found her, she had siblings she never knew she had. Her whole genetic family looked just like her. Red hair etc. But at the end of the day, she didn't associate with them. She ran away often and wanted to go back to her real parents. The people who raised her. The people that may not have looked exactly like her, but they were the people she came to know and love. Because no matter how genetics ties her with these other people...she doesn't know them. She wasn't raised by them, so they are not home.

Superman is no different. His home is earth. He is an earth person. He is human, even if genetics say otherwise. So why have writer after writer, bore us to death with more drivel on Krypton and his loneliness. Superman isn't lonely because he is the only Kryptonian. That's just the ******** wool that has been pulled over our eyes for the past however many years since he was slain by Doomsday. I certainly don't want to see more of that in the film. Forget another origin story. Forget Krypton. Focus on how Superman has moved beyond being the Last Son of Krypton. Move on to how he has become the (Hu)Man of Steel.

THIS POST IS DEAD ON.

The only thing I would suggest that I know this poster would disagree with is that I want to see the origin again. I want to see it played a bit differently than we've seen it .. and, honestly, we haven't really seen Krypton. Not the way it can be presented today - modern movie making technology can give us an awe inspiring visual and modern writing can really make Jor-El's story come alive instead of just the 'he predicts Krypton's doom and sends his child to Earth'.

 

[Superark]

It is a very common problem in a lot of modern Superman stories. Many writers find him unwritable because of his power (not enough villains who can actually threaten him). So what a lot of writers do is turn to this "psychology of Superman" theme that really has gotten old.

-Explore his relationship to humans as a Kryptonian
-Explore his Christ like attributes
-Explore his loneliness as the last of his kind

There are a bunch of sub themes like that, that just make Superman a bore to read these days. That role is sufficiently filled by J'onn the Martian Manhunter. He actually saw his family and homeworld die. Therefore, it makes sense. Also, even though J'onn can shapeshift and pretend to be human, in the end, his true form is not human. Even his adopted form (a hybrid of his true self and a humanoid form) is distinctly different. In fact, that was something that was touched on when J'onn switched outfits and started roaming around as his true self. Why on earth do we need Superman to have the same themes explored when

A)He was not even a month old when Krypton exploded. Therefore he has no genuine mental or emotioanl attachment to it, other than as an idea.

B)His true form is identical to that of a human (so much so that he can even copulate with humans).

C)Superman was raised from infancy to adulthood, by humans, whom he looks similar to.

To me, the idea of this guy longing for a homeworld he never saw and parents he never knew, makes zero sense. In Smallville...Clark feeling lonely makes partial sense. He was the only person on earth who was the way he was (at least for the first several seasons during the kryptonite mutation era). But in the comics, he has encountered so many other beings from other worlds and with fantastic powers, that he can't feel alone. ****, the guy has two cousins with him. J'onn has nobody at all, yet you'd swear that Clark somehow suffered more by the whiny position he often has in the books. I just hate it.

Superman is such an awesoem character, but I feel like he is only that way during the major events or titles that bring him together with other characters (Superman/Batman, Justice League etc). But his lone book...I mean how often can he feel bad for a world he never knew. It's like that book and movie, Face on the Milk Carton. Her genetic parents found her, she had siblings she never knew she had. Her whole genetic family looked just like her. Red hair etc. But at the end of the day, she didn't associate with them. She ran away often and wanted to go back to her real parents. The people who raised her. The people that may not have looked exactly like her, but they were the people she came to know and love. Because no matter how genetics ties her with these other people...she doesn't know them. She wasn't raised by them, so they are not home.

Superman is no different. His home is earth. He is an earth person. He is human, even if genetics say otherwise. So why have writer after writer, bore us to death with more drivel on Krypton and his loneliness. Superman isn't lonely because he is the only Kryptonian. That's just the ******** wool that has been pulled over our eyes for the past however many years since he was slain by Doomsday. I certainly don't want to see more of that in the film. Forget another origin story. Forget Krypton. Focus on how Superman has moved beyond being the Last Son of Krypton. Move on to how he has become the (Hu)Man of Steel.

That comment I bolded kind of gets under my skin.

My family just recently told my little sister that we adopted her and I know she has a longing to know about her real parents. We recognized that unfortunately she might seek out her real father one day.

I dated a girl who was adopted and I can tell you that she felt the same way.

These are very real feelings for people so you might want to not make such stupid comments again

 

[Daredevil_2003]

JMHO, but I've found the Superman comics I've read, with a few notable exceptions, to be dreadfully dull. I love the character and the mythos but there's only a handful (I'll grant you that I'm not very well-read on it, but my point here is why I'm not) of comics that I really enjoyed.

For me, the 78 movie, and Superman The Animated Series are the only two that have really gotten it "right". Far more entertaining than any other.

Again, just my opinion, but out of the Superman comics I've read the only ones that really stand out as "Wow, that was awesome" are Birthright, For All Seasons, and Red Son (which is an elseworlds, go figure). Whereas with other properties I can go on and on about all the great arcs, series, and one-shots I adore.

And it's certainly not the character's fault. I'm inclined to go with the camp that says it's been poorly written as too mopey, too introspective, too...not Superman. He's a deep character, but he is not Emo-man. Also, a lot of ideas that were good in concept, like the death of superman (sue me, I like it), were horribly executed.

EDIT: Him also being so overpowered in many renditions also is a big factor, the Fleischer, Timm, and Byrne levels where he can actually be threatened are way more interesting than the literally invulnerable Supes that we get more often than not.

 

[DavidTyler]

That comment I bolded kind of gets under my skin.

My family just recently told my little sister that we adopted her and I know she has a longing to know about her real parents. We recognized that unfortunately she might seek out her real father one day.

I dated a girl who was adopted and I can tell you that she felt the same way.

These are very real feelings for people so you might want to not make such stupid comments again

First of all - your sister wanting to know her real parents is not the same thing as mourning a dead planet you never knew. Your sister has a longing to know who she is and the people she comes from... but I doubt very much that she would give up you and your family for her birth parents. You are her family and she probably feels that straight thru to her core. I'm sure she and your ex-girlfriend idealize their birth parents and probably Clark would as well ... but mourning a dead world you've never known is so far removed from that.

Clark may have a fascination for things Kryptonian but he would more than likely never think of himself as anything but the son of Jonathan and Martha ... just as your parents are the only Mom and Dad your sister will ever have those deep attachments to. Birth parents in the picture or not.

You aren't the only one on these pages who have adoption in their family or immediate friends.

 

[DavidTyler]

JMHO, but I've found the Superman comics I've read, with a few notable exceptions, to be dreadfully dull. I love the character and the mythos but there's only a handful (I'll grant you that I'm not very well-read on it, but my point here is why I'm not) of comics that I really enjoyed.

For me, the 78 movie, and Superman The Animated Series are the only two that have really gotten it "right". Far more entertaining than any other.

Again, just my opinion, but out of the Superman comics I've read the only ones that really stand out as "Wow, that was awesome" are Birthright, For All Seasons, and Red Son (which is an elseworlds, go figure). Whereas with other properties I can go on and on about all the great arcs, series, and one-shots I adore.

And it's certainly not the character's fault. I'm inclined to go with the camp that says it's been poorly written as too mopey, too introspective, too...not Superman. He's a deep character, but he is not Emo-man. Also, a lot of ideas that were good in concept, like the death of superman (sue me, I like it), were horribly executed.

EDIT: Him also being so overpowered in many renditions also is a big factor, the Fleischer, Timm, and Byrne levels where he can actually be threatened are way more interesting than the literally invulnerable Supes that we get more often than not.

I would be fascinated to hear your opinion of Byrne and Wolfman's "Man Of Steel"

 

[Daredevil_2003]

I would be fascinated to hear your opinion of Byrne and Wolfman's "Man Of Steel"

To be honest, I've only read it once, but I do remember liking it. I just wasn't blown away by it like I was when I finished with Birthright or Red Son.

EDIT: One thing I don't like about Byrne and similar interpretations is the assertive Clark Kent as the real guy part. I've always enjoyed the Clark Kent as a facade or Superman's critique of the human race (to steal the latter from Kill Bill as that thought had never crossed my mind till then)

 

[Superark]

First of all - your sister wanting to know her real parents is not the same thing as mourning a dead planet you never knew. Your sister has a longing to know who she is and the people she comes from... but I doubt very much that she would give up you and your family for her birth parents. You are her family and she probably feels that straight thru to her core. I'm sure she and your ex-girlfriend idealize their birth parents and probably Clark would as well ... but mourning a dead world you've never known is so far removed from that.

Clark may have a fascination for things Kryptonian but he would more than likely never think of himself as anything but the son of Jonathan and Martha ... just as your parents are the only Mom and Dad your sister will ever have those deep attachments to. Birth parents in the picture or not.

You aren't the only one on these pages who have adoption in their family or immediate friends.

First off I was not speaking to you, but to Arach Knight. But since you felt the need to weigh in let me address you.

I said nothing of mourning. Don't put words into my mouth.
I never said anything about my sister giving up on her family or thinking of herself as anything other than my sister and parents daughter.
I certainly never said anything in regards to Superman mourning Krypton, or giving up on his Earth family or the people on it.

Arach Knight made a comment that the idea of someone "longingfor a homeworld he never saw and parents he never knew, makes zero sense." Those are his words.

I take issue with that because that is not true. As Christmas pointed out in his post, there are those who do, some who wonder but don't, or some don't think about it at all. Not every case is the same. But to say the idea of that someone would seek their birth root "makes zero sense" is ignorant.