The Avengers The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 9

[Oruku Saki]

That was the one with those dogs, and it plays like a tense mystery thriller, with different people giving their version of the events to exonerate themselves from the blame. Banner takes a job working for the villains there, just to figure out whether the Hulk is really guilty or not. I think it's called something like "Of Models and Murder", or something like that. It might even be the one with the scrap car crusher at the end.

That's actually a style that Akira Kurosawa started with his movie: Rashomon; where the audience discovers the movie through different perspectives of the same event.

 

[Drummerdude7]

Like this movie ;-D ;-D ;-D

 

[Quasimod0]

I liked that movie

 

[Roose Bolton]

Or basically any George R R Martin novel
(fingers crossed that he one day writes a Hulk comic)

 

[Arc-Light]

Or basically any George R R Martin novel
(fingers crossed that he one day writes a Hulk comic)

What are you nuts.....if that happens the universe might implode...

 

[Dark Raven]

That's actually a style that Akira Kurosawa started with his movie: Rashomon; where the audience discovers the movie through different perspectives of the same event.

Yeah, I should've clarified that the whole episode doesn't play out like that. It's not really a Rashomon-style episode at all. It's just different people giving their version in a flashback style when he questions them, but the rest of the episode is all from his perspective. It's more like Petrocelli than Rashomon.

Also, that style was around waaaay before Rashomon and Akira Kurosawa. The 4 gospels in the Bible are exactly that - 4 different perspectives on the same events.

 

[Gamma Ra]

Those were only the very very late run of Sal Buscema's Hulk. For most of his run (about a 100 issues or so) Hulk had Banner inside him. This was the classic 70s Hulk who spoke with in the 3rd person and said iconic phrases like "Hulk smash" etc. In Buscema's run, Hulk even gained the intelligence of Banner for a couple of years. So he definitely wasn't a Hulk bereft of Banner. That only happened at the end getting near to #300 because of Nightmare. Then post #300 Hulk was on some alien world for about a year, having been banished there by Dr Strangepork.

The idea behind the Savage Hulk was that he was a Child-like creature and not an apeman or an animal. He's a child that knows his power and wants his way. Though I agree he looks like a neanderthal. My point was that though he may appear to look like a ape-man, he is mentally far from that. In the later Cross Roads stories that you are referring to, the Banner-less Hulk was drawn even more gorilla-like by Busceme then Mignola ,to show, as the story made it plain, how primal he became due to the lack of Banner.

Bixby is definitely still the best Banner, and yes, even in the pilot he showed his amazing talent, but there were many other instances throughout the series. I want to see Ruffalo do a full movie, but I still think Bixby will be the Sean Connery of Banners.

I agree with you here. I want to see a full movie focused on Ruffalo as Banner before I can say he's the best Banner.

BTW in Season 3 of TIH, Bixby's Banner does also try to commit suicide, because he thinks that the Hulk was responsible for the death of an innocent, and reasons that the real curse isn't so much the monster but the man he's become (as a result of being on the run etc). He quotes Shakespeare with the line from Romeo and Juliet: "past hope, past cure, past help." But then when he found out that someone was in danger (can't remember who) he put aside his own feelings of suicide and went to help because, as a hero, he couldn't ignore his true nature. It's a moving and powerful episode, and also features Bixby's wife Brenda Bennett as a psychic.

I think it would've been cool if Ruffalo had quoted the same Shakespeare line and even the same Bixby quote when talking about how he tried to put a bullet in his mouth when he became that desperate.

Let's hope that Ruffalo will be quoting more than Shakespeare.

 

[Golgo-13]

I love the ep where Banner is paralyzed from the waist down, and is lying in bed depressed. He then realizes that turning into the Hulk, can help re-generate his spine, so he smashes a glass, and is about to slam his hand down on the broken glass to cause a hulk out, then he realizes he has no control over the destruction Hulk might 'cause, so changes his mind. Little scenes like that speak volumes about Bixby's Banner.

 

[Quasimod0]

Or rather, the writer of the hulk television show.

 

[calibud]

1) Coulson's comments on Banner can be explained away as him simply not knowing Ross had kept Bruce in the dark over the ultimate goal for his work. It is apparent that Ross & Shield do not get along (Widow telling Bruce they'd kept 'interested' parties off his tail while always knowing where he was). With that in mind Coulson simply getting that fact wrong about Banner can make sense.

As does the writers simply changing their minds about the issue...

2) The serum Ross pulled out from the cryo-tube for Blonksy was not the same as that which empowered Cap. It was an unstable version, presumably an earlier attempt to recreate Erskine's serum given the use of a different name and batch number (Reinstein) and that it had already been exposed to Vita rays (negating the need for that part of the process for Blonsky). At it's best, it would only recreate another Cap (which it did to a degree, though it left Blonksy obviously deranged). What Ross saw in the Hulk was another level of power altogether.

So....Ross wanted Banner for dissection as he was a living example of the vast power that could be achieved from Banner's process, with the subject still surviving it. If Ross's scientists could figure out how to make Banner's transformation stable and replicable, then an army of controllable Hulks would beat the living crap out of an army of Cap's.

1) Hah yeah I'm inclined towards the latter. I'd hate to think Whedon just missed that detail, but it's possible. I might actually prefer that version (Banner actively being a part of the serum revival), though him being deceived into research makes him more of a clear-cut protagonist. Either one works...but the TIH version makes his story a little more tragic.

2) You're right, I hadn't considered that "an army of controllable Hulks would beat the living crap out of an army of Cap's".
In the comics, Reinstein is actually an alias of Erskine...but the serum that was used in TIH could've been synthesized from the samples of Cap's blood, which would explain the "pre-Vita-rayed" serum given to Blonsky.

I kinda wish they referenced the events or acknowledged the details of TIH the same way they did IM2 (new relationship with Pepper, the suit, references to Stark's personality profile). Of course, they're inconsequential and the story was streamlined in TA to great effect. Just nitpicking from me.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

saw avengers again in a mostly silent theatre, I take back what i said about the "puny god" line, its perfectly fine. and Hulk does indeed say smash lol.

 

[Oruku Saki]

Yeah, I should've clarified that the whole episode doesn't play out like that. It's not really a Rashomon-style episode at all. It's just different people giving their version in a flashback style when he questions them, but the rest of the episode is all from his perspective. It's more like Petrocelli than Rashomon.

Also, that style was around waaaay before Rashomon and Akira Kurosawa. The 4 gospels in the Bible are exactly that - 4 different perspectives on the same events.

Except nobody in the bible filmed a movie; so yes he was the first to implement it on film, and many many films have copied since.

 

[terry78]

The look on Hulk's face in the scene where they're all surrounding Loki in the Stark tower cracks me the **** up everytime I see it.

 

[Lantern Venom]

A few Hulk thoughts after seeing the movie a 2nd time:

While Thor was given his just due as a demigod, Hulk seemed to get a slight edge in their fight. As Thor said, "Dr. Banner, try to think", he needed a second arm to block Hulk's blow and he was still driven downward. Thor seemed to be holding his own with technique, intelligence, and Mjolnir.

Mark Ruffalo is now Bruce in my mind, despite not really resembling the comic book drawings. I noticed how uncomfortable he seemed to be in any situation that didn't involve science. He stood around with his hands in his pockets, tried to get out of everyone else's way, and seemed uneasy about talking to anyone but Stark. Ruffalo nailed Bruce's introversion like no one ever has.

I also liked that Bruce didn't react at all to Black Widow's veiled seduction line of, "I'll persuade you."

 

[SchumacherFan]

Does anyone have a link to any polls for who played a better Bruce Banner - Ed Norton or Mark Ruffalo....I'm curious to see what the general public felt put the better performance.

I think the common thought is that ppl wanted Norton for continuity , but overall Mark Ruffalo nailed the part perfectly.

 

[Gamma Ra]

A few Hulk thoughts after seeing the movie a 2nd time:

While Thor was given his just due as a demigod, Hulk seemed to get a slight edge in their fight. As Thor said, "Dr. Banner, try to think", he needed a second arm to block Hulk's blow and he was still driven downward. Thor seemed to be holding his own with technique, intelligence, and Mjolnir.

Mark Ruffalo is now Bruce in my mind, despite not really resembling the comic book drawings. I noticed how uncomfortable he seemed to be in any situation that didn't involve science. He stood around with his hands in his pockets, tried to get out of everyone else's way, and seemed uneasy about talking to anyone but Stark. Ruffalo nailed Bruce's introversion like no one ever has.

I also liked that Bruce didn't react at all to Black Widow's veiled seduction line of, "I'll persuade you."

Adam Kubert's Bruce Banner resemble Mark the most.

 

[Brian Braddock]

Sure, Norton looked more like comicbook Bruce but Ruffalo resembles Bixby in my mind, and that's more than good enough for me.

 

[metaphysician]

You know, this might be a stupid question, but does Banner in the *comic* have a consistent appearance?

 

[Gamma Ra]

You know, this might be a stupid question, but does Banner in the *comic* have a consistent appearance?

Nothing stupid about it...

Banner is described as 5'9" in height, thin, brown hair and brown eyes. Different artists will interpret that in their own way.

I'm not sure if any particular actor was used as the original model, however.

 

[Dark Raven]

You know, this might be a stupid question, but does Banner in the *comic* have a consistent appearance?

Early Banner looks like a complete nerd with glasses and older - much like his appearance on the cover of TIH #1. John Byrne also drew him that way.

Sal Buscema's Banner looked quite different from that image and more of a traditional leading man. He probably resembled Norton more.

I think Banner doesn't really have a consistent appearance, unlike Tony Stark, Reed Richards or Peter Parker. If you put different artists' Banners next to each other they would look like completely different people.

 

[Golgo-13]

Saw it a third time

There's no reflection of the Hulk when Banner is talking to Stark.

Hulk does yell, something at the plane...still couldn't make out what.

 

[Avenger]

Early Banner looks like a complete nerd with glasses and older - much like his appearance on the cover of TIH #1. John Byrne also drew him that way.

Sal Buscema's Banner looked quite different from that image and more of a traditional leading man. He probably resembled Norton more.

I think Banner doesn't really have a consistent appearance, unlike Tony Stark, Reed Richards or Peter Parker. If you put different artists' Banners next to each other they would look like completely different people.

So, in a way, the movies have been very accurate to the comics in that regard. t:

 

[Doctor Jones]

Yeah, there was no Hulk in Banner's reflection.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Early Banner looks like a complete nerd with glasses and older - much like his appearance on the cover of TIH #1. John Byrne also drew him that way.

Sal Buscema's Banner looked quite different from that image and more of a traditional leading man. He probably resembled Norton more.

I think Banner doesn't really have a consistent appearance, unlike Tony Stark, Reed Richards or Peter Parker. If you put different artists' Banners next to each other they would look like completely different people.

Yes, there are always elements that vary, but there are three that jump out in my mind as common. 1) In contrast to his alter ego, he's always skinny and slight framed (Norton had the closest body type) to the point of looking weak 2) His glasses are thick and prominent 3) his hair, whether parted on the side or in the middle, is often tousled or hanging in his face.

It seems that the animated versions of Banner use this as a template more than the movies. Then again, it's probably tough to find an actor who naturally gives off the "98 lb weakling" vibe.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Sure, Norton looked more like comicbook Bruce but Ruffalo resembles Bixby in my mind, and that's more than good enough for me.

That was actually one of the things that worried me about Ruffalo. I didn't want to see the Avengers' Banner written with the confidence and cunning that the TV series Banner often had. Thankfully, he wasn't.