The Avengers The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 9

[Lantern Venom]

Heck, in some ways, if you weren't a fan of TIH's take of the Hulk, you could easily ignore it from your memory when watching TA, or if you're one of those who enjoy continuity, there's still room to trace them back to each other.

Take that a step further. I always felt like TIH could be viewed as a loose sequel to 2003's Hulk. The Avengers' Hulk was built and moved more like Ang's Hulk than TIH's Hulk. So both of those felt like canon to me.

 

[Boom]

I've actually chosen to ignore TIH in Marvel's continuity. Not only am I familiar enough with The Hulk's origin to not really need the film, but the post-credits scene doesn't tie into anything that transpired in The Avengers, so it's really not all that necessary outside of establishing Bruce Banner and The Hulk (which, again, I personally didn't need). The movie really is the odd-man out.

 

[PROLIFIK1]

Man, after seeing it for the second time tonight. In my opinion Ruffalo/The Hulk totally stole the show. Who would of thought after two failed solo films, that he would be the one to unexpectedly shine in the film? The comedy added through all the Hulk's actions were instant classics. Loved every moment of it.

Not to mention, this is BY FAR the best Hulk design out. I was always a Norton fan, but after seeing Ruffalo; I've been easily convinced that Mark did better.

 

[gustipawana]

I really learn a lot here. thanks everyone.

 

[Boom]

Well, Norton is at an unfair disadvantage, considering Ruffalo mo-capped The Hulk with ILM/Weta (I don't know which of them worked on The Hulk. I'm assuming ILM). I couldn't even tell you what company worked with Norton on TIH. The special effects were just as forgettable, and I don't think Norton did nearly as much motion-capture as Ruffalo did.

Still, Ruffalo > Bana and Norton in my book.

 

[Frankie J.]

last I checked, fights are judged on effective aggression and damage

Ok that convo was like "two days" ago, oh and watch any UFC fight or boxing match damage is NOT a factor (especially a small nose bleed).

Fights are judged by the numbers of blows landed, blocked, and dodged UNLESS someone is KO'd.

2 days , sorry but I hafta ttt for something this egregiously ignorant.

The TYPE of hit kinda matters. Also, there's a reason why CompuStrike and PunchStat don't replace actual judges as your reply would have. They don't completely take into account the observable efficacy (effective aggression). Even so, within those systems, power is rated above lesser technique. Furthermore, UFC:
A decision is made according to the following criteria in this order of priority:
1. the effort made to finish the fight via KO or submission,
2. damage given to the opponent, (however you slice it, nothing > "a small nosebleed")
3. standing combinations and ground control,
4. takedowns and takedown defense,
etc.

 

[herolee10]

Take that a step further. I always felt like TIH could be viewed as a loose sequel to 2003's Hulk. The Avengers' Hulk was built and moved more like Ang's Hulk than TIH's Hulk. So both of those felt like canon to me.

True, I mean it was said in TIH that Banner had first transformed into the Hulk five years before the events of the film, and 2003 was when the first Hulk was released, with it ending with Banner in South America, which is where we found Banner at the start of TIH.

I've actually chosen to ignore TIH in Marvel's continuity. Not only am I familiar enough with The Hulk's origin to not really need the film, but the post-credits scene doesn't tie into anything that transpired in The Avengers, so it's really not all that necessary outside of establishing Bruce Banner and The Hulk (which, again, I personally didn't need). The movie really is the odd-man out.

I will agree that with the way Hulk/Banner was introduced and show in TA, you could easily believe that he didn't have a solo film of his own, assuming if you weren't aware about TIH film, simply because none of the events from his film really carry over into the events/plots of TA.


Personally, I think that Mark, as an incredible actor as he is, also had the luxury of playing a Banner who had accepted his fate and wasn't obsessed with trying to change himself, along with having the group dynamic to work off of from a solid cast.

If you could give the character something great to work off of in his own film, add that to a competent director, solid script, and Mark's performance, and I could see a solo Hulk film making as much as "Thor" did perhaps.

 

[LostSon88]

I've actually chosen to ignore TIH in Marvel's continuity. Not only am I familiar enough with The Hulk's origin to not really need the film, but the post-credits scene doesn't tie into anything that transpired in The Avengers, so it's really not all that necessary outside of establishing Bruce Banner and The Hulk (which, again, I personally didn't need). The movie really is the odd-man out.

TIH has enough in it for me to consider it canon. The Stark cameo at the end, yes, doesn't necessarily tie into the events in TA per se. However does add a little meat to his role as a so called "consultant/liaison" of The Avengers Initiative.

Aside from that, it also had references to SHIELD and the Super Soldier program. I think the fact that Blonsky is injected with a 'passible' attempt at Erskines serum, looking in hindsight now, is a very nice touch and adds to the MCU continuity.

Not to mention how Whedon apparently is referencing the deleted scene of Bruce's suicide attempt from TIH or the fact that at the end of TIH Bruce has presumably learned to control his anger/ability to transform...something quite evident at the climax of TA.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

Take that a step further. I always felt like TIH could be viewed as a loose sequel to 2003's Hulk. The Avengers' Hulk was built and moved more like Ang's Hulk than TIH's Hulk. So both of those felt like canon to me.

as much a I didn't care for the 2003 hulk... and never understood how people try to ague that TIH was a sequel to it... I did feel that some of the references they made and the way he acted in it, were most in line with the 2003 version... but they also things like mentions of the super solider project, him learning how to control it (more or less)

but I's say, they just use previous movie(s) as a reference point, but, that this was a new continuous for the character

 

[Polux]

2 days , sorry but I hafta ttt for something this egregiously ignorant.

The TYPE of hit kinda matters. Also, there's a reason why CompuStrike and PunchStat don't replace actual judges as your reply would have. They don't completely take into account the observable efficacy (effective aggression). Even so, within those systems, power is rated above lesser technique. Furthermore, UFC:
A decision is made according to the following criteria in this order of priority:
1. the effort made to finish the fight via KO or submission,
2. damage given to the opponent, (however you slice it, nothing > "a small nosebleed")
3. standing combinations and ground control,
4. takedowns and takedown defense,
etc.

How all of this is even remotely relevant to the Hulk/Thor fight escapes me completely...

No offense dude, but honestly, we had a Hulk/Thor fight, a comic book fan dream come true, and people are argueing about technicalities to judge this fight?? And using UFC criteria...I mean, really?? REALLY???

They beat eachother up, they broke a lot of stuff, they both were left standing...WHAT ELSE DO YOU NEED TO OVER-THINK??

I mean...am I the only one who still enjoys these movies as a fan instead of over-analizing everything to an insane level or scrutinity??

Don't get me wrong, I often find myself criticizing inconsistencies, plot-holes and bad characterization, but this....??

It's like people are only looking for reasons to argue...

And this used to be my happy place...


Polux

 

[Avenger]

MOS: The Consultant makes me think that Marvel changed their plans after IM1 and TIH. Stark's cameo at the end of TIH did not give off a "let's send Stark in to piss off Ross and keep Blonsky away" vibe at all. It seemed more like a "Hey, we want the Hulk, and we need your help to track him down" kind of thing.

I agree that there's still enough in TIH to consider it canon. Did anyone else notice the way Steve Rogers's eyes flew open when he was injected with the Super-Soldier Serum? I thought it was very Hulk-like, which makes sense, since TIH insinuated that Banner's transformation was caused by a mixture of a derivative Super-Soldier Serum combined with the gamma radiation pulse.

 

[wobbly]

How did Iron Man get pictures and footage of Captain America from the 1940's in color?

1) Color film was around before the 1940's. It was just too expensive and impractical to be commonly used.

2) On Tony's monitor he has 3 pictures of Cap. 1 is a passport style photo, which is easy to assume was recently taken, 2 is of Cap frozen, which would be recent, and the 3rd is film of him in action (from the 40's). That one is in black & white.

 

[Avenger]

The passport-looking photo has Steve in a 1940s U.S. Army uniform, so I doubt it's recent. If he's still active in the modern U.S. military, he'd be in the current blue uniform the Army uses now.

 

[BigThor]

2 days , sorry but I hafta ttt for something this egregiously ignorant.

The TYPE of hit kinda matters. Also, there's a reason why CompuStrike and PunchStat don't replace actual judges as your reply would have. They don't completely take into account the observable efficacy (effective aggression). Even so, within those systems, power is rated above lesser technique. Furthermore, UFC:
A decision is made according to the following criteria in this order of priority:
1. the effort made to finish the fight via KO or submission,
2. damage given to the opponent, (however you slice it, nothing > "a small nosebleed")
3. standing combinations and ground control,
4. takedowns and takedown defense,
etc.

Lol dude chill, some people think the fight was even while some don't it's not that serious these are FICTIONAL characters.

 

[Dark Raven]

Lol dude chill, some people think the fight was even while some don't it's not that serious these are FICTIONAL characters.

Also, I'm sure none of the SHIELD agents were standing around judging the fight by UFC criteria. No-one does that in a non-officiated brawl.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Bah, I do it all the time.

 

[Mjölnir]

2 days , sorry but I hafta ttt for something this egregiously ignorant.

The TYPE of hit kinda matters. Also, there's a reason why CompuStrike and PunchStat don't replace actual judges as your reply would have. They don't completely take into account the observable efficacy (effective aggression). Even so, within those systems, power is rated above lesser technique. Furthermore, UFC:
A decision is made according to the following criteria in this order of priority:
1. the effort made to finish the fight via KO or submission,
2. damage given to the opponent, (however you slice it, nothing > "a small nosebleed")
3. standing combinations and ground control,
4. takedowns and takedown defense,
etc.

Damage is NOT a criteria in the MMA unified rules. It was set to be in the beginning but was taken out due to how it would be used by detractors to show that the sport is barbaric. I single this out because it's a very common mistake made. Damage can of course be a very indirect part of "effective striking" but it's not in itself a criteria.

Your list is in general not accurate to how an MMA fight is scored and you should be much more well read on the subject before you call something "egregiously ignorant".

 

[Fifthchild]

The Incredible Hulk sticks out like a sore thumb in the franchise. Not only the fact that Ruffalo replaced Norton, but their hulks are completely different in design and personality. The only thing connecting TIH to The Avengers is Stark's appearance at the end, otherwise, it feels like it doesn't fit in with the rest, you know?

I didn't really care for TIH, so I almost want to discount it from The Avengers canon and consider it stand alone. I know it is apart of the canon, but it doesn't feel like it.

I would gladly go back in time and kill it before it was born due to its mediocrity but i accept that TIH is still part of Avengers continuity. I'm so glad that the Avengers Hulk seems to take more from the 2003 Hulk than the 2008 one however. With the recast, the lack of any TIH supporting characters remaining, the Hulk redesign, its very easy to pretend TIH didnt really happen, or at least happened a lot better.

In that Wired article Feige talks about how the public will still turn up on opening weekend for their movies which gives them the luxury of going with what they feel is the best director/approach rather than the most bankable one. On TIH however i think its clear that Marvel chickened out and tried to make the most commercial film they could. Thats might have worked for them in the short term but in the long run it really shows in the quality of the film.

 

[Fifthchild]

The cg in TIH looks even more horrible now, than i remember it. In fact it's hard to watch because of it.

The scene where IM asks Cap if Banners has shown up yet. I'm assuming that either Banner contacted Stark sometime before the beginning of the final battle, or Stark figured Banner was smart enough/or they had both figured out (even though it wasn't shown) that the portal would be above Stark Towers and Banner would meet them there. It just felt a little too "wtf' Banner showing up to the Battle like that especially since no one knew what had happened to Banner after the helicarrier attack.

I think you can assume Banner figured it out or was close enough to see what was happening and.....drove really really fast. The important point was that while everyone else was rather dubious, Stark had faith that his friend would show up and in the end Banner proved him right.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I feel as though the wheels were already turning for TIH before Marvel fully got a handle on how they do things, plus they had Valhalla productions and all time terrible producer Ari Arad meddling with it.
No one really came out of that one alright

 

[Fifthchild]

I loved that part so much. A hint of sorrow there? Regret?

I think it was the last bit of Bruce fighting the transformation. Its a much slower transformation than the second, voluntary one and it sort of pauses, he looks back with sadness in his eyes for a second and then its anger and he fully transforms.

 

[Fifthchild]

It seems that the most acclaimed stuff with Hulk in the comics actually goes against the popular interpretation of the character in other media. Whether it be Hulk with all the intelligence of Bruce Banner, or Grey Hulk, or planet-conquering warrior Hulk, or the current "Hulk as a seperate person from Bruce Banner", or whatever.

There have definitely been a lot of reinventions of the character over the years. Probably because they pushed the same angle for a long time and it got a little stale. When Peter David took over the book in the early 80s he was told he could do whatever he wanted with it since nobody cared.

PADs run is highly acclaimed and its what got me seriously into the character and comics, rekindling my childhood affection. Planet Hulk is probably my favourite ever individual Hulk story and WWH is fun but after that i have to admit that Pak went pretty far downhill and much of the rest of his run is only good if you like seeing Hulk pulling off absurd feats. But if you arent already a fanboy then the Peter David (PAD) run is a good place to start. Its very long and it has a real drop off in quality around issue 442 to 460 but it covers a lot of ground and reinvents the character with classic graphic novels like Future Imperfect and Hulk: The End worth mentioning. He had a second, much shorter, run thats also decent though a bit brief to do much.

 

[PunisherFC]

I look at TIH has a loose cannon to Avengers hulk IMO i know its very much cannon, but i am spoiled by Ruffalos awesome portrayal of banner/hulk

 

[BigThor]

Also, I'm sure none of the SHIELD agents were standing around judging the fight by UFC criteria. No-one does that in a non-officiated brawl.

I admit I brought up UFC/boxing when talking about the number of blows landed, blocked, and dodged but that guy actually listed official rules.

...too far

The fact that the fight is so debatable is further evidence that there was no clear winner, other than those with the "last hit" mentality.

 

[Mjölnir]

I admit I brought up UFC/boxing when talking about the number of blows landed, blocked, and dodged but that guy actually listed official rules.

...too far

The fact that the fight is so debatable is further evidence that there was no clear winner, other than those with the "last hit" mentality

He listed rules he made up himself, but your point stands.