The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Part 10

[Johnny-Oh]

SM1 has one bad CGI scene, and that's Peter crawling on the wall in his wrestler's outfit. Outside of that, it's gorgeous.

Yeah that's the only one that looks cartoony although I still love the way he moves and the way Raimi shot it, looked like an actual spider.

SM1 has good CGI, in fact I think the final swing scene was better than SM2's because the texture of the suit looked amazing and real, it looked like actual fabric. The swinging scene from Spiderman 2 is great but I don't like a few of the close-ups of his suit 'cause it looks like rubber or plastic, doesn't look like a real human.

I want to buy the 4k mastered versions of the trilogy. I only have the DVDs and that's not enough anymore lol That fight between Spidey and New Goblin must look fantastic

 

[OriginalMiles]

Don't forget that Bruce Dallas Howard was terrible as Gwen Stacey and and served no purpose

****, I completely forgot about Gwen... and I just watched the movie!

 

[LizardMan07]

The only thing about the old series that hasn't held up well is the swinging. It's kind of like he's floating, no real gravity or momentum to it.

Not a really big deal, as as others have said, the CGI holds up suprisingly well.

 

[The Joker]

Spider-Man 3 (2007)

The third and final installment of Sam Raimi's trilogy, this movie is a disappointing end to this wonderful series. It tries to juggle three villains: Sandman, New Goblin and Venom... and does well to an extent. However, Hayden-Church's wooden performance stops the well written Sandman story from being one of the greater ones in this trilogy. New Goblin (ugh) had so much potential. After being built up for 3 movies, the pay off isn't very satisfying. 2 short fights and a pointless amnesia plot device hinders this particular subplot, however James Franco's performance and redemption at the end stop it from being a total wreck. Venom was weak, weak motivation with a horrible performance from Topher.

The main actors, Maguire and Dunst, were fine. Nothing too bad (except for that dancing scene).

Final thoughts: Decent story, decent writing. Spider-Man 3 is a disappointing but alright ending to the series as it provides some closure, yet fails to deliver an amazing movie.

6/10

A fair enough review, though one thing I do disagree strongly on is Venom's motivation being weak. It's actually the best motive Venom has ever had I think. Compared to the comics where Eddie and Spider-Man never met. They were strangers. Eddie published a story about the wrong identity for the serial killer, Sin Eater, and that gets exposed when Spider-Man catches the real Sin Eater. Brock gets fired, and his life falls apart. He blames Spider-Man for that when all Spidey did was catch a serial killer. He didn't know Eddie from Adam. He was not an obstacle in his way to writing a proper story.

Whereas in the movie Peter deliberately exposed Eddie's fraud, roughed him up and humiliated him, disgraced his reputation, and dated the girl Eddie was infatuated with. Peter and Eddie actually had a real connection.

 

[OriginalMiles]

A fair enough review, though one thing I do disagree strongly on is Venom's motivation being weak. It's actually the best motive Venom has ever had I think. Compared to the comics where Eddie and Spider-Man never met. They were strangers. Eddie published a story about the wrong identity for the serial killer, Sin Eater, and that gets exposed when Spider-Man catches the real Sin Eater. Brock gets fired, and his life falls apart. He blames Spider-Man for that when all Spidey did was catch a serial killer. He didn't know Eddie from Adam. He was not an obstacle in his way to writing a proper story.

Whereas in the movie Peter deliberately exposed Eddie's fraud, roughed him up and humiliated him, disgraced his reputation, and dated the girl Eddie was infatuated with. Peter and Eddie actually had a real connection.

Yeah I guess that does improve on the original motivation, but from what I could see, I think Eddie should be pissed... but not "Argh, I want to kill Peter" pissed.

But still, you think that Eddie's motivation was good and that's fine. Your opinion.

 

[The Joker]

Yeah I guess that does improve on the original motivation, but from what I could see, I think Eddie should be pissed... but not "Argh, I want to kill Peter" pissed.

But still, you think that Eddie's motivation was good and that's fine. Your opinion.

If someone has ruined your life, and they are at their core a bad person anyway, which Eddie clearly was. I mean he fakes pictures to frame someone, and then he's so warped he goes to a church and asks God to kill someone, and this is all pre bonding with the hateful symbiote (which can make a good person like Peter try and kill someone, among other nasty things), it really is the version of Venom that makes the most sense.

Even the 90's animated series or the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon never gave Venom that good of a motive.

 

[Spider-knight]

the funny thing is during the 80s venom was actually more popular than doomsday. a spiderman villain outclassed the the alien that killed the man of tommorrow..........sometimes i just don't understand the outcome like how matt fraction's fear itself ended up being so terrible-_-

 

[The Joker]

Venom's popularity back in it's day was ridiculous. One of the most overrated villains ever. There was just nothing there to the character. All style and no substance. Teens and kids only gravitated so much towards him because he was an evil looking version of Spider-Man with his powers. Scratch that surface and there's sod all there.

I cheered when Raimi came out and said in an interview that when he read Venom comics to research the character he just didn't get what was so great about the character, and the more he read the less interested he became in him;

I had never read Venom in the comic books, since they came after my time. Because of that, I didn't have a natural inclination toward him. And when I read those comics, at [producer] Avi Arad's urging, I didn't understand where Venom's humanity was. I know that kids think he looks cool, and they think he's a good villain for Spider-Man. I actually didn't. What was it about Peter's own makeup that this villain represented some weaker or darker side to? Just looking like a dark version of him is not enough for me. The more I read [Venom stories], the less interested I became.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20037557,00.html

 

[Venom75]

I'm not saying Eddie's motivation in the comics wasn't weak,but I don't think that alot of "evil" people can have clear,rational or justified motivations. Eddie was clearly a messed up individual. It's like the say,you can't explain insanity. And I think that once the alien symbiote got a hold of him,it really screwed him up.

 

[Spider-knight]

Venom's popularity back in it's day was ridiculous. One of the most overrated villains ever. There was just nothing there to the character. All style and no substance. Teens and kids only gravitated so much towards him because he was an evil looking version of Spider-Man with his powers. Scratch that surface and there's sod all there.

I cheered when Raimi came out and said in an interview that when he read Venom comics to research the character he just didn't get what was so great about the character, and the more he read the less interested he became in him;



http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20037557,00.html

It's why flash was the better venom because he had so much humanity before and after the suit. Intact even before he got the suit his whole life sucked with injuries, comas, assaults, relationship issues, trust issues, abuse, etc. and when marvel tried to make gargan work as venom they kinda failed on that.

People say venom was great because he knew everything about spiderman. Okay, but what about his character? Did he have much dimension? Did he true and do something? How big were his adventures? Seriously, how did this guy ever beat doomsday?

 

[Doc Ock]

I got caught up in the Venom popularity in the 90s and into the early 2000s on the basis of he "looked cool" like much of the comic book creations in that era. Nowadays I like the character enough that I don't hate him, but don't view him as highly in Spidey's rouge gallery as I once did. I think the Agent Venom/Flash Thompson version of the character is my favorite Venom, I need to catch up on the issues I'm missing of his Venom series.

I'm one of those people who has come to really enjoy Spider-Man 3, but I would of liked it more if it was Venom-less.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

It's funny how many different people have been Venom now. The Scorpion was Venom, too, years ago.

 

[Doc Ock]

It's funny how many different people have been Venom now. The Scorpion was Venom, too, years ago.

Yeah, and Eddie was the Anti-Venom...there have been so many symbiotes at this point it feels like.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I'm not saying Eddie's motivation in the comics wasn't weak,but I don't think that alot of "evil" people can have clear,rational or justified motivations. Eddie was clearly a messed up individual. It's like the say,you can't explain insanity. And I think that once the alien symbiote got a hold of him,it really screwed him up.

Eddie is still my favorite character, even after a steady, 35-year diet of comics. I can still picture the place in which I read Spider-man 300, because that was the moment when comics "grew up" in my mind.

Prior to that, I thought of all comic book villains as irredeemable monsters, even the human ones. There were villains who wanted power, villains who wanted riches, or villains who wanted to destroy or kill. Yet it all amounted to one thing: BAD guys. However, when Eddie started to recount his past, I felt myself sympathizing with a villain for the first time. He grew up without his mother, and with a father who resented him. He tried to win his father's affection through sports and academics, but that failed.

He fought an uphill battle to adulthood, which came to a crossroads when he lost his credibility as a reporter and his marriage ended. Eddie wasn't blameless in these events, but life was certainly unkind to him. His logic might have been skewed, but it was understandable. It made sense to me that Eddie sought out his own personal bogeyman to eradicate. Eddie had tried to play by society's rules, but that got him nowhere. For the first time, I understood a villain's motivation as something that a normal person might feel. Eddie wasn't a bad character; he was a tragic one like Darth Vader. Venom vs. Spider-man wasn't good vs evil as much as it was a rivalry between one guy who overcame life's obstacles and another one who fell a few inches short. To this day, that's still my singular favorite comic book issue in any comic.

I still hope we see something like that in the new Spidey franchise. I'll never get over the hideous, clichéd, boring, mind-numbing, lazy, poorly-acted, visually-nauseating version of "Venom" we got in Spider-man 3. Yes, I'm still that angry after all these years. It's ironic that so many Venom fans now wish for the very thing Eddie wanted in the comics: redemption.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Yeah, and Eddie was the Anti-Venom...there have been so many symbiotes at this point it feels like.

Too many of them. Marvel keeps making new ones because the older ones get boring after a while.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Throw me onto the SM3's Venom was better than the comic book version train. I used to enjoy him alot! I loved Venom! Then, much like Joker & Raimi said, as I got older, I realized there wasn't really anything to Venom outside of looks. I think Raimi's Sandman is also better than the comic book version....but he still wasn't used as good as he could've been.

 

[The Joker]

The comics also adapted Raimi's idea of Sandman having a daughter.

 

[Spider-knight]

Actually in the comics sandman was just just sine thug who was actually a very convincing bad guy and over the years he tried to turn over into a new leaf and even tried to help out a Latino family. I fact, since BND sandman has a Daughter who has the same powers he has

 

[The Joker]

Fascinating. What has that got to do with what I just said? Does it change it or refute it in some way? No.

 

[Venom75]

Throw me onto the SM3's Venom was better than the comic book version train. I used to enjoy him alot! I loved Venom! Then, much like Joker & Raimi said, as I got older, I realized there wasn't really anything to Venom outside of looks.

I still don't understand what that means. Everyone always says there's nothing to the character. Do you mean as Venom,or Eddie Brock? Is it because Venom never had a "plan" to advance his criminal career like a Doc Ock or Green Goblin? I don't know. Maybe no one else see's the complexity in Eddie Brock like I do. I'm sure alot of people just hate him because of his popularity. Not trying to get into a fight with anyone here,but I just wish someone could tell me what "there's nothing to the character" means.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Spider-Man 3 (2007)

The third and final installment of Sam Raimi's trilogy, this movie is a disappointing end to this wonderful series. It tries to juggle three villains: Sandman, New Goblin and Venom... and does well to an extent. However, Hayden-Church's wooden performance stops the well written Sandman story from being one of the greater ones in this trilogy. New Goblin (ugh) had so much potential. After being built up for 3 movies, the pay off isn't very satisfying. 2 short fights and a pointless amnesia plot device hinders this particular subplot, however James Franco's performance and redemption at the end stop it from being a total wreck. Venom was weak, weak motivation with a horrible performance from Topher.

The main actors, Maguire and Dunst, were fine. Nothing too bad (except for that dancing scene).

Final thoughts: Decent story, decent writing. Spider-Man 3 is a disappointing but alright ending to the series as it provides some closure, yet fails to deliver an amazing movie.

6/10

Nice review.

Sandman is one of my favorite villains so I was happy to see him get the treatment from Raimi. Retcon aside, I like what they did with Sandman here and I disagree about Thomas Church. I thought he did a pretty good job. And on the topic, the Sandman birth scene has got to be the best origin/birth scene of any villain in any CBM, imo. Doc Ock's hospital scene is a very close second. I know they'll probably be a lot of detractors about that statement but I stand by my choice.

I'm not a Venom fan. But I agree with Joker, he's given a much better characterization in SM3 than in the comics. I think TSSM gave Peter and Eddie a better overall connection, but the motivations for Venom in SM3 are more convincing.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

I still don't understand what that means. Everyone always says there's nothing to the character. Do you mean as Venom,or Eddie Brock? Is it because Venom never had a "plan" to advance his criminal career like a Doc Ock or Green Goblin? I don't know. Maybe no one else see's the complexity in Eddie Brock like I do. I'm sure alot of people just hate him because of his popularity. Not trying to get into a fight with anyone here,but I just wish someone could tell me what "there's nothing to the character" means.

It means that his reasons for hating Spideran are awful. Peter didn't do him any wrong, just because Brock wrote a fake news article its Spidey's fault?

 

[Venom75]

It means that his reasons for hating Spideran are awful. Peter didn't do him any wrong, just because Brock wrote a fake news article its Spidey's fault?

Yeah,but sometimes crazy people are just...crazy. Brock is clearly mentally disturbed. A lot of times evil or insane people are like that,esp. in the real world. Their motives make sense to only them alone. Like when John Hinkley Jr. decides that if he shoots president Reagan,Jodie Foster will like him. Nutty to us,rational to him. The same goes with Eddie. And like I mentioned in a previous post,once the monsterous symbiote got hold of Eddie's disturbed and fragile mind his anger at Spider-man became a lust for murder and revenge.

 

[Daltonio]

Did anyone else here actually like Green Goblin's "power ranger" costume from the first movie?

Sure, it doesn't even come close to beating the one from the comics but I never really had a problem with it like most people seemed to. It was a pretty cool re-imagining, imo.

 

[OriginalMiles]

I only started to hear the Power Ranger comparisons a couple years ago.

I loved it.