The Official Black Panther Thread - Part 1

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]220389[/split]

 

[Anubis]

Okay, so issue 13 came out, and I think that Hudlin has finally put together enough good issues in a row that I have totally forgiven him for his bumpy start on the title. So, I, in all my infinate power, officially present this thread in honor of the current Black Panther series, as well as an all around BP appritiation thread, because lets face it, there really should be one.

Long live the King!

 

[Varient]

I can see it now, 47 issues of techno babble and tribal politics with a 4 page fight pay off.

ouch.

 

[Varient]

Interesting,.. I think I was just transfered to a new thread by a "Bot".

 

[roach]

me too....oh shiiiit where is John Connors...anyone see him...damn

 

[Docker2.0]

Okay, so issue 13 came out, and I think that Hudlin has finally put together enough good issues in a row that I have totally forgiven him for his bumpy start on the title. So, I, in all my infinate power, officially present this thread in honor of the current Black Panther series, as well as an all around BP appritiation thread, because lets face it, there really should be one.

Long live the King!

Is he still married to Storm? Is that girl still the BP in Wakanda? I haven't touched BP since they made him a female which is just crazy for no freakin reason but I have read BP:TMWF and it's ok but technically he's Batman now. Even have the same costume! But don't get me started but if his main comic is good, then I will give it a try. And believe me, I stood by Hudlin when he took BP through some crap so I'm not just riding the guy for the nuts of it but I just had enough of some of the changes they are putting him through.

 

[E-Man]

Looking at Anubis' post from the old thread is kinda funny. I remember thinking that Hudlin wasn't so bad after the Bad Mutha trade with Luke Cage, but things went downhill again really quickly after that. In fairness though Flags of Our Fathers was a decent read, so he's gotten better.

 

[Anubis]

Yeah, amazing how my opinion changed so much.

 

[DarKush]

Is he still married to Storm? Is that girl still the BP in Wakanda? I haven't touched BP since they made him a female which is just crazy for no freakin reason but I have read BP:TMWF and it's ok but technically he's Batman now. Even have the same costume! But don't get me started but if his main comic is good, then I will give it a try. And believe me, I stood by Hudlin when he took BP through some crap so I'm not just riding the guy for the nuts of it but I just had enough of some of the changes they are putting him through.

Docker,

To attempt to answer some of your questions. T'Challa is still married to Storm, though he left her to go 'prove himself' in Hell's Kitchen. There was brief scene in the first issue of BP: MWF where they discussed this and Storm supported his decision.

Shuri is still Black Panther, and is still ruler of Wakanda. She recently starred in the Klaws of the Panther miniseries. But her future is murky at the moment.

I don't think Hudlin deserves the hate many in the fanboy community have heaped upon him. He wasn't the best writer, but he was a decent writer, and at times a good one (Flags of Our Fathers), and he had a respect for T'Challa that I find lacking since his exit. I believe if Hudlin was still on the book T'Challa would be Black Panther again already, perhaps after DoomWar. Maberry's a good writer and David Liss is starting out fine, though I don't care for the current direction.

I particularly felt T'Challa was punked in DoomWar and to some extent MWF is operating within the boundaries set up by DoomWar (or that predated it with the Hudlin-Maberry Shuri as BP issues. Though I don't think BP's mistreatment rapidly increased during DoomWar. Before that I could just hope that they were building up this Shadow Physics thing to be kickass. But once that fizzled and was quickly forgotten, it just felt like a bunch of smoke and mirrors).

 

[E-Man]

It's hard to say that T'Challa would still be Black Panther with Hudlin at the helm because he was the one that left him in a bad situation in the first place. In the first issue of the relaunch he had T'Challa punked so bad by Doom that he was in a coma and Shuri took the mantle. The bad thing about it is the way it happen. T'Challa losing to Doom and being in a coma isn't so bad because Dr. Doom is a big time villain. The problem is that T'Challa foolishly went to go meet Namor with only two bodyguards, and then didn't put up a fight at all while they did all the dirty work. Wtf was up with that? You mean to tell me that the man who plans for everything went into a questionable situation without much backup and an escape route? Why wouldn't he even fight either? He just stood there and tried to argue with the Dora Hudlinje. It's like he was rushing to set up intrigue for the gimmick of having a female Black Panther.

 

[Anubis]

It was just one more bulls**t stunt after a series of bulls**t stunts. BP may need a few years without a book at this point.

 

[DarKush]

It's hard to say that T'Challa would still be Black Panther with Hudlin at the helm because he was the one that left him in a bad situation in the first place. In the first issue of the relaunch he had T'Challa punked so bad by Doom that he was in a coma and Shuri took the mantle. The bad thing about it is the way it happen. T'Challa losing to Doom and being in a coma isn't so bad because Dr. Doom is a big time villain. The problem is that T'Challa foolishly went to go meet Namor with only two bodyguards, and then didn't put up a fight at all while they did all the dirty work. Wtf was up with that? You mean to tell me that the man who plans for everything went into a questionable situation without much backup and an escape route? Why wouldn't he even fight either? He just stood there and tried to argue with the Dora Hudlinje. It's like he was rushing to set up intrigue for the gimmick of having a female Black Panther.

To be fair, I was making a big assumption about Hudlin, though I can't see him leaving T'Challa out of his habit for a long-time, not as long as it has been now. This move felt like it was designed to elevate Shuri, tie T'Challa into Dark Reign, and set up a big show down with Doom that perhaps get T'Challa closer to A-List status.

I don't know what was going on behind the scenes that led to the decision to have Shuri assume the mantle and in that manner. I didn't mind that Black Panther was tricked by Doom because Doom unwittingly used Namor, generally an ally, as the lure. I feel that DoomWar was more of an affront to T'Challa because he knew what he was dealing with and Doom still punked him out throughout most of that miniseries, and even preaching to T'Challa at the end, after choking him out.

Some have accused Hudlin of making T'Challa a Gary Stu. Here RH didn't do that. He made T'Challa very vulnerable. He upped the ante. I think the storyline was ripe with new potential to explore all manners of things BP while also giving some shine to Shuri. I think Hudlin left T'Challa in an interesting place, but Maberry dropped the ball.

Maberry did well on the political thriller front, on building up momentum to DoomWar. I think he failed in exploiting Shadow Physics (which he created), in developing the Storm-T'Challa marriage, and generally in the writing of the miniseries.

 

[E-Man]

To be fair, I was making a big assumption about Hudlin, though I can't see him leaving T'Challa out of his habit for a long-time, not as long as it has been now. This move felt like it was designed to elevate Shuri, tie T'Challa into Dark Reign, and set up a big show down with Doom that perhaps get T'Challa closer to A-List status.

I don't know what was going on behind the scenes that led to the decision to have Shuri assume the mantle and in that manner. I didn't mind that Black Panther was tricked by Doom because Doom unwittingly used Namor, generally an ally, as the lure. I feel that DoomWar was more of an affront to T'Challa because he knew what he was dealing with and Doom still punked him out throughout most of that miniseries, and even preaching to T'Challa at the end, after choking him out.

Some have accused Hudlin of making T'Challa a Gary Stu. Here RH didn't do that. He made T'Challa very vulnerable. He upped the ante. I think the storyline was ripe with new potential to explore all manners of things BP while also giving some shine to Shuri. I think Hudlin left T'Challa in an interesting place, but Maberry dropped the ball.

Maberry did well on the political thriller front, on building up momentum to DoomWar. I think he failed in exploiting Shadow Physics (which he created), in developing the Storm-T'Challa marriage, and generally in the writing of the miniseries.

My problem with the way it went down was that T'Challa was written grossly out of character, even out of character for the way Hudlin wrote him. I don't have a problem with Dr. Doom beating Black Panther because he's Doom, but T'Challa could have at least put up a fight and planned something instead of standing around like some kid in his first fight. There was potential in having a story where T'Challa tries to regain his focus after an attack from Doom, but it was really just a poor set up to fall in line with the female hero gimmick that Marvel was on.

As for Maberry, I think he did drop the ball a bit. He can write politics well, and he did far more with Shuri in his short time than Hudlin did in her entire existence. He made T'Challa actually sound like T'Challa instead of a guy who thinks that he should act like Puffy, but he didn't finish strong after a good start. Doomwar could have had a great ending, but instead it fell into ending things on a moment instead of a strong climax. The last issue was just about getting T'Challa to Doom so he could pull out his great plot device, but it should have been an near issue long showdown. Plus, the idea that Wakanda has run out of vibranium from the mound isn't all that good. The mound went from being gigantic even after tens of thousands of years of mining to being all mined overnight. He should have set up Wakanda losing vibranium better than that.

 

[DarKush]

To be honest I can't remember much about the initial Doom attack on T'Challa so I can't argue with you there. I also agree that Maberry did more for Shuri, in terms of fleshing her out than Hudlin did.

Now I do think that JM was much stronger in his "Power" arc and went off the rails in DoomWar with both T'Challa and Shuri. But since DW I think JM has done a terrible job with Shuri, giving her a Paris Hilton/Lindsey Lohan past and then giving her a killing rage. And throwing shade at Storm. I don't think this has made her worthy of being a Panther. His later work on her made her seem small, petty, and juvenile.

As for T'Challa, I liked how JM brought out the strategist side and the scientist side, but JM kept T'Challa on the sidelines way too much. The X-Men, Fantastic Four, Deadpool, Storm, and Shuri did most of the fighting while he sat in a bunker somewhere and had conversations with Reed. They trotted him out at the end of the bloated mini to get his ass handed to him and to preach to Doom before his genius solution to render his country's most precious commodity unusable Why the hell didn't he do that in the beginning?

As for RH I think he did sometimes use slang, perhaps in an attempt to make the book more up-to-date, hip, or revelant, but it came off as out of place. I don't recall RH having T'Challa use slang, more so some of the people around him. However, Priest's use of slang was far worse. At least RH's was authentic. That Nappy Fro' Lad stuff had me gagging.

As I've said before, I know RH had faults, but I still don't think he was as horrible as many claim. And I don't think that JM ultimately was much of an improvement. In some ways he added some interesting things like Shadow Physics but he never did anything with it. He also introduced the Desturi but they pretty much got wiped out in DW, and the character Ohyaku (sp) was handled too. So he either wrapped up his inventions or ignored them.

I did like JM's depiction of Klaw in the Klaws of the Panther. That was about the only thing good in that miniseries. The artwork was particularly bad.

 

[Anubis]

I think it's mostly from that "Stright trippin' boo" line from the House of M crossover.

 

[Docker2.0]

Darkush, are you Hudlin? Hahaha, I kid!...kinda anyway. Actually if you check my posts in the old thread, I always supported Hudlin but I'll be honest after that change to a female BP for no reason, I couldn't anymore. I stopped buying BP but I do buy TMWF which basically makes him Batman but I'm hoping the old BP comes back. I've given it chances but they are just losing me on the character. He and Storm don't even seem married, her being in X books and him being a distant husband............bah! It just doesn't feel like BP.

 

[Nightwing 52]

Brevoort mentioned he'd like to see T'challa and Storm in Avengers, but that BP may return to Wakanda or continue this path he's on even if Matt returns.

 

[Varient]

meh.
I don't feel so alone with some of my issues.

 

[DarKush]

Darkush, are you Hudlin? Hahaha, I kid!...kinda anyway. Actually if you check my posts in the old thread, I always supported Hudlin but I'll be honest after that change to a female BP for no reason, I couldn't anymore. I stopped buying BP but I do buy TMWF which basically makes him Batman but I'm hoping the old BP comes back. I've given it chances but they are just losing me on the character. He and Storm don't even seem married, her being in X books and him being a distant husband............bah! It just doesn't feel like BP.

I wish I was RH. I would have a lot more money. Don't get me wrong, I agree with some criticism of RH, though I feel some of it I've read over the years is excessive.

I've supported BP through most of RH's run and I didn't mind Shuri taking over because I thought it would eventually result in T'Challa reclaiming the mantle. Despite my misgivings over DoomWar I bought every issue and the Age of Heroes one-shot with Shuri. Where I drew the line was Klaws of the Panther. I felt the one-shot trashed Shuri in the misguided attempt to add depth to her, though it made me take her less seriously. Klaws didn't really do much for her either, though it did pair her with several big names and allowed her to make Klaw her nemesis too. There was a lot of rich potential in that match up but I don't think it was realized.

As for MWF, I am supporting that, despite my misgivings. The artwork is decent as is the writing, though the word balloons are too wordy. The covers are great. I don't like the new direction, I don't like the sidelining of Storm, but I am curious to see how this story will turn out.

Hopefully T'Challa and Storm will wind up in an Avengers squad as opposed to this MWF stuff. Staying in NY and in Hell's Kitchen would be a waste of T'Challa's potential.

 

[Varient]

Hmmn.
Latest issue of MWF,... they say upfront that T'challa powers are "Panther God" bestowed?

I have to back off on most of my complaints because it also stated that the guy had NOTHING FROM HIS COUNTRY.

Still wondering what Ororo was smoking to let him go to Hells kitchen alone.

 

[E-Man]

MWF is the book that I really want to hate but I just can't. Now I'm not a cheerleader for the book, and it's far from perfect in my eyes. It's just that it's not a bad read at all. With the premise it's a solid 7 or 8 out of 10. If this was featuring a character in a position that made sense it would be really good. I just kinda read it as if T'Challa had a curse placed on him that kept him from leaving America like Papa Midnite. Eventually the idiocy of the premise creeps back into mind when he interacts with someone like Luke Cage, but beyond that it's a solid read.

 

[Varient]

MWF is the book that I really want to hate but I just can't. Now I'm not a cheerleader for the book, and it's far from perfect in my eyes. It's just that it's not a bad read at all. With the premise it's a solid 7 or 8 out of 10. If this was featuring a character in a position that made sense it would be really good. I just kinda read it as if T'Challa had a curse placed on him that kept him from leaving America like Papa Midnite. Eventually the idiocy of the premise creeps back into mind when he interacts with someone like Luke Cage, but beyond that it's a solid read.

7 or 8 out of ten?

Okay.

Kinda surprised that only Cage noticed him. (The superhero community,.. heck Steve Rodgers should've showed up!) There's enough to keep me reading,.. but t'challa continuity is taking a beating.

 

[Nightwing 52]

T'challa to become The American Panther

......

 

[E-Man]

T'challa to become The American Panther

......

What...the...****?!

Seriously, **** you Marvel!

 

[roach]

Hey Marvel
Hows about instead of trying to make Black Panther into Daredevil, Captain America or Spider-man...how about you keep him Black Panther?
...and while we are at it do the same for Moon Knight.
If I want to read Spider-man I'll read Spider-man
If I want to read Captain America I'll read Captain America
When I want to read Black Panther or Moon Knight thats who I want to read