The Official Black Panther Thread - Part 1

[TheGhostofPJ]

What part of "presumably" don't you understand?

And you do know that Marvel loves to tease and throw out red herrings, right? Which means you're getting worked up over nothing more than an assumption. I mean, you get that, right?

 

[hippie_hunter]

Is...is that really what you take away from the book? Seriously?

This book has had so many continuity issues, especially with the first issue, that even the minor ones annoy me now. It's like who the **** edits this damn thing.

That and it's stupid.

 

[roach]

What part of "presumably" don't you understand?

And you do know that Marvel loves to tease and throw out red herrings, right? Which means you're getting worked up over nothing more than an assumption. I mean, you get that, right?

dude get your head out of the sand.
if I send you a picture of 'American Captain Britain' and say that Fear Itself will have a deep impact on Captain Britain...then what else are we to get from that?
I follow my instincts on stories and I have been right 100% of the time....because in my mind there is no way that American Panther will be cool or awesome or make sense.

 

[E-Man]

Sigh.
I went back and reread the entire exchange.

Since we ALL make "judgments" based on the sprinkling of data given before the books come out,.. You are "UNFAIR" to have issue with someone seeing "American Panther" as T'Challa.

They take the character, almost kill him, (Props that it takes an effort by Doom,.. but slams the Panther by saying that someone who plans for Galactus can be hurt by Dr. Doom.), They make a STABLE Hi-Tech Society that has existed for century's "suddenly" destabilize and allow a coup,.. where One of the most powerful Mutants on the planet with literally HUNDREDS of super powered Acquaintances / friends can be locked up and set aside for "death" w/o the FF or the X-Men MINIMUM Coming to stop it.

You let him heal while dragging an unknown sister from her life of debauchery into the role of the Black Panther. While the hi-tech country "barely" beats off the ATTACK of a villain that Spiderman beat using Radio-shack level gear slaved to a nuclear plant while depending on his tolerance for radioactive energy,..
(breath)
Same Hi-Tech Society which is SUPPOSED to be one of the most advanced on the planet gets infiltrated w/o anyone noticing by tech that C Priest used in his run.

The cannoned over achieving uber planning-ist person on the planet can't do more than destroy the countries primary export to stop Doom??
He is so out of character for ANY version of him outside of "Happy Pants" Panther that No one is really surprised by the sudden introduction of hundreds of African Princesses, T'challa learning magic, and his turning to the worlds heroes against the massive army of Doom?

A country he fought to get back then lets him slip off to America W/O his tech base or bodyguards to "test himself"
A wife who watched her husband almost die lets him go unprotected by ANYTHING including the the new magic and powers granted by a suddenly stingy Panther God INSTEAD of the one time ingestion of a heart shaped plant???

Sigh.

So it is VERY unlikely with ALL that has been done to this Character that SOMEONE ELSE would wear MOSTLY a black costume and call himself "American Panther"

This kind of pain has only been for one guy,....


It's like someone at Marvel is casting about to make T'Challa palatable - Getting rid of years of having a clue, Years of being on a Par with Captain America, Years of being bright enough to recognize a doodad cobbled together By Reed Richards,...
From years of rarely losing to having this never ending non-stop losing streak culminating with his renouncing his country??

So I'm not surprised at what he's said,.. and even agree with him.

You summed up all the emotions I've had while reading about T'Challa in the past five years. How does he go from that awesome character that was always planning and doing great things in the Priest series, Busiek's Avengers and Johns' run to what we have now? People keep saying that they are trying and failing, but the problem is that they keep trying and failing at making him something completely different from what he was in the first place.

They just need to write him with the same respect as Thor. Not with the same high class talent because Thor is an elite Marvel hero, but make T'Challa's status as a king a big deal. When Thor is anywhere he's always of Asgard, and he does a lot of things in Asgard. You see him respect America and the rest of earth, but he's always Asgardian before anything else. It's not hard to build up Wakanda. It's already bad ass. It's got a variety of people. Just give it life instead of being that thing that Black Panther leaves to do more "important stuff" like taking over Daredevil's job.

 

[Varient]

sigh

 

[Varient]

You summed up all the emotions I've had while reading about T'Challa in the past five years. How does he go from that awesome character that was always planning and doing great things in the Priest series, Busiek's Avengers and Johns' run to what we have now? People keep saying that they are trying and failing, but the problem is that they keep trying and failing at making him something completely different from what he was in the first place.

They just need to write him with the same respect as Thor. Not with the same high class talent because Thor is an elite Marvel hero, but make T'Challa's status as a king a big deal. When Thor is anywhere he's always of Asgard, and he does a lot of things in Asgard. You see him respect America and the rest of earth, but he's always Asgardian before anything else. It's not hard to build up Wakanda. It's already bad ass. It's got a variety of people. Just give it life instead of being that thing that Black Panther leaves to do more "important stuff" like taking over Daredevil's job.

I agree (As you know.)

we are NOT the ONLY people who feel this way,... But it's too bad that we will be ignored because "we are the vocal minority".

SIGH sum more.

 

[Drz]

I just now noticed he's actually having guns... Why on earth would he need guns?

 

[Varient]

I just now noticed he's actually having guns... Why on earth would he need guns?

meh.
Maybe this is one of the SuperSoldiers in Marvel and NOT T'Challa?

 

[E-Man]

It could be Kasper, but even if it is it's still dumb. And if they could bring back Kasper then what the hell is Josiah X doing?

 

[Anubis]

Well, last I saw of Josiah, he killed a dude, and was all butt hurt about it.


I would actually like it if it was Kasper. If for no other reason than to see him make a comeback.

 

[Harlekin]

When did you last see Josiah? I thought he didn't have any more appearances after The Crew.

 

[Anubis]

Yeah, during the Crew.

 

[Drz]

Behold! Black American Spider Panther!

 

[Varient]

Behold! Black American Spider Panther!

....
SpiderCloak
SpiderDagger
Spider "Master of Kung Fu"
SpiderPanther
SpiderCage
SpiderFist
CaptainSpider
SpiderHulk
SpiderThing
Spider,... Babe filling dat Hoodie?

(I'm always amazed at how "doable" all the artists at Marvel Draw Spiderwoman.)

 

[Varient]

Okay,... been away,.. so I had a stack at the comic store, (The owner feels sorry for me.)
Anyway,.. read BP The man w/o fear 516 thru 520.

I honestly can't complain.

The interaction between Cage and the former King, was within what I would expect from both,.. even though I'm still irritated that his country doesn't care where he is or what he's doing.

The interaction between Ororo and her Husband was spot on. He is one of the few in the MU outside the Xmen who treats her like a person.

The running convo throughout 519 and 520 kept me smiling because it kinda defines marriage, the back and forth, the give and take, the contrast between how the two saw things,..

Storm has grown,.. a decade ago I couldn't have read her "letting" a friend / xman / husband get up from almost being killed and put themselves in danger by "testing themselves". In the same paragraph they kept her true by having her show up against the wishes of T'Challa.

While I'm still sore about how we got to this point, (read my overlong complaint above.), I can see that the current creative team gives a crap about the BP.

I guess I'm saying I'm gonna keep reading and commenting -

 

[Paradox1]

I've decided to catch up on some bp. What's the best volumes to really reintroduce myself to Bp without the current baggage.

 

[E-Man]

I've decided to catch up on some bp. What's the best volumes to really reintroduce myself to Bp without the current baggage.

The Priest volume is exceptionally good. The first 12 issues are collected in two trades, and if you like that then you might be able to find some on Ebay or somewhere else online.

 

[Paradox1]

Thanks E I'll look that up tonight on the net.

 

[Ture]

David Liss first Black Panther story Urban Jungle was a comparatively entertaining tale. As a novice comic book writer he is proficient enough to deliver a near audible maturity sans the superfluous levity sometimes found in Black Panther stories. Urban Jungle almost belies a superhero comic in favor of a crime novella.

The interior art of Francesco Francavilla gives consummation to Liss’ authorship, encapsulating a picturesque urban noir. Guest artist Jefte Palo and Jean Francois Beaulieu were able to capture those same sensibilities while maintaining their own unique signature. An artistically seamless juxtaposition. The cover art by Simone Bianchi and Simone Peruzzi is simply beautiful. They are gorgeous renderings of art.

Liss writes a specious Black Panther. Tchalla's intellectual acumen and creative genius is more on par with Peter Parker than Reed Richards or Tony Stark. His physical prowess and combative skills are rudimentary. The Black Panther’s strategic and tactical abilities appear to have gone from three steps ahead of his opponent to a base stimulus and response. These would not be serious flaws for a superhero new to the scene but for a seasoned veteran they can border on insulting. Liss’ Black Panther is supposedly the latter.

Some of the thoughts and words Liss has the Black Panther express are obvious attempts by the author to be factual. However Liss comes off more pedantic than accurate. Having Tchalla state, for example, that it is more difficult to protect a neighborhood (Hell’s Kitchen) than a nation (Wakanda) was glaringly inappropriate.

The two factors that worked in Liss’ favor have lost momentum; those being Tchalla’s less than stellar performance during Doomwar and the suspension of belief that this is not a year one for the Black Panther.

Liss proceeds from a false assumption founded in a grossly erroneous premise while trying to entice with a sobriquet that has yet to be demonstrated. He assumes the Black Panther is on a journey of self discovery necessitated by the removal of his powers, nation and wife. The epithet that the Black Panther is “the world’s most dangerous man” has yet to be convincing conveyed.

The Black Panther is stripped of the essential traits that so defined his character. His ethos has been removed for no good reason other than the penchant to make ethnicity and cultural distinctions appear obsolete. This heresy is analogous to a pope turning his back on the papacy, Catholicism, Rome and his people to become policeman in the Germantown section of Philadelphia and be respected for doing such.

If this is to be a new start for Tchalla then his learning curve and feats have to improve drastically. His natal connections to Wakanda, the Panther spirit and to his wife Ororo have to be reestablished. David Liss has written a potentially more compelling Black Panther than his predecessor Jonathan Maberry but is far from the contextually rich, definitive Black Panther written by Christopher Priest or the culturally relevant Black Panther written by Reginald Hudlin. The path of success for David Liss lies in his truly comprehending of who is the Black Panther. Thus far David Liss’ Black Panther: Man Without Fear is a tolerable comic book with a faux superhero.


Taken from Aesthetics 6250 A.U. - Special Black Panther Edition
http://pyakule.com/magazine.html

 

[Ture]

In a recent IGN interview (http://m.ign.com/articles/1184069) BP:MWF writer David Liss expressed the following; “There's a certain contingent of Black Panther fans who have been very unhappy with the current manifestation of the book. They feel that the Black Panther without his traditional powers and his vibranium and tech is watered down and diluted.”

This is the inheritance of David Liss, a fallacious premise that predicates the dissolution of the title character. Tchalla the Black Panther no longer exists. All the defining elements so inaugural to character e.g. his kingship, nation and people, spiritual connection to the Panther god, physical enhancements derived from the heart shaped herb, high tech and the unique advantages of possessing vibranium have been systematically eliminated.

How is he to be viewed other than “watered down?”

Once more David Liss; “One of our goals in this arc[this November’s upcoming Kingpin storyline] is to demonstrate that, even without these things, there's nothing watered down or diluted about this character. This is an arc that's going to show why he's the most dangerous man alive.”

The rationalizations for the unnecessary re purposing of Tchalla the Black Panther into Okonkwo "most dangerous man alive" is so inept that it lacks the mental dexterity to be convincing. Tchalla the Black Panther was already one of the most dangerous persons in the marvel universe as rendered by Priest, Huddlin and McDuffie.

As evidenced by Storm Hunter (which heralded the much needed reunion of the Black Panther and Storm as they do battle with Kraven the hunter) we are once more forced to witness the ill effects of a faulty premise that exaggerates a character flaw while simultaneously minimizing a character strength.

While entertaining, Storm Hunter continues to render a Black Panther more novice than seasoned professional. Tchalla failing to overcome the toxins, lacking useful armament or Tchalla explaining how he could have saved himself from the fall are simply missed opportunities.

Another missed opportunity was Kraven and his new found immortality. If Kraven is incapable of dying then Storm’s should have been shown failing in her attempts to stop him by evacuating the air from his lungs or by hitting Kraven with lightening strikes (as he would no doubt instantly regenerate). This would have made Tchalla’s gamble all the more impressive as a tactical maneuver .

Despite my criticisms Liss is not writing a bad Black Panther, he’s just under the influence of a very bad premise. The result is a Panther that has not reached his potential, a Panther that has yet to self actualize. It is unfortunate that Liss was not given Tchalla the Black Panther with all his attributes to write.

 

[MadVillainy]

So I just saw this:

Did BP and Storm break up and I didnt know? Im not up to date on BP

 

[Anubis]

Wow. I'm astonished.

 

[runawayboulder]

Astonishing X-Men's premise is it tap-dances around continuity. I wouldn't read too much into it. The thing that catches my eye is this is the 3rd creative team change this year. Cancel that stupid book and find a better use for Mike McKone's talents.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Ah, funny. I'm sure they'll explain it that cyke and storm knew each other even before BP did as kids.

 

[stillanerd]

Did BP and Storm break up and I didnt know? Im not up to date on BP

Nope, they're still married. So if that cover is suggesting what it implies, Scott better pray T'Challa doesn't find out.

Astonishing X-Men's premise is it tap-dances around continuity. I wouldn't read too much into it. The thing that catches my eye is this is the 3rd creative team change this year. Cancel that stupid book and find a better use for Mike McKone's talents.

Well, according to Greg Pak, Astonishing X-Men may actually be in-continuity for once:

The book opens in the aftermath of X-MEN: SCHISM. New readers have no fear; you don't have to have read anything to jump on board. But if you've been compelled by X-MEN: SCHISM, this is a great place to follow some of its repercussions.

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