The Official Punisher by Rick Remender / Punisher MAX thread

[cthulhu]

No Max for january makes me sad I need my Max fix Dillon shouldnt have taken on two projects IMHO Could the real reason for the delay be something like they want to hold Max back to relaunch/promote it after Remenders run comes to the end? Remenders run dropped badly in sales, while Max sales were not great its been fairly consistant and its a dollar more expensive. Might be an idea to separate the titles and have a title while they decide what they are going to do with 616 punisher (if anything).

 

[fat freddys cat]

No Max for january makes me sad I need my Max fix Dillon shouldnt have taken on two projects IMHO Could the real reason for the delay be something like they want to hold Max back to relaunch/promote it after Remenders run comes to the end? Remenders run dropped badly in sales, while Max sales were not great its been fairly consistant and its a dollar more expensive. Might be an idea to separate the titles and have a title while they decide what they are going to do with 616 punisher (if anything).

no it's really cause Dillon took on two comic books too do and has fell behind!

Simple as that !

 

[NDX]

I just picked up The Punisher: Very Special Holidays trade since it was part of the Marvel Knights line (and it seemed it could fit in the Max universe as well). Are they any other trades similar to that from the Marvel Knights line I should look for (not the Punisher War Journal series, what I've read of that I did not like)?

 

[cthulhu]

Couple of suggestions...

The Marvel Knights miniseries written by Chuck Dixon which was 'team book' with the Punisher in it was pretty good, not sure if its in trades but its worth tracking down as Frank is portrayed well - hopefully the upcoming Heroes for Hire will be as good.

Older stuff thats well worth it include:
Punisher P.O.V. dark story of anarchists which change... (Bernie Wrightson art)
River of Blood, Frank meets the Russian punisher (Joe Kubrick art)
Big Nothing, Frank deals with unfinished 'Nam business (Mike Zeck art)

There is of course the Max stuff which is all excellent... t:

 

[claydogg]

wow no max until the new year marvel dropped the ball again,, I wish after 25 years of being a punisher fan that "dark-horse" or some else would by the franchise,, marvel/Disney loves the money it makes.
then gives the movie franchise 33 and 22 million to make but gives ghost-rider (which I like) but not the same draw as punisher fans, double the cash.

 

[Themanofbat]

Marvel/Disney had nothing to do with the amounts of moneys put into both Punisher & Ghost Rider movies...

 

[Shockdingo]

Yea...I mean if anything it's Lionsgate. Marvel only recently got back the film rights. THey weren't a puppet master trying to screw Frank over or anything. Also, I dunno about Darkhorse buying Punisher, personally, I like it when he interacts with the MU as a whole.

 

[claydogg]

the punisher has been marvels "Redhead stepchild" for years.
trust me,, they like the money "punisher" them makes but never really backs up the film.

for example "punisher warzone" was
the same year as iron-man and ready for a trailer the hulk reboot with norton and iron man never had a trailer for both films in it.
but DC had one for "The spirit" in both film though.



typical marvel,, if it was something like spiderman they would have had a trailer in it.

 

[hippie_hunter]

The prominence of the Punisher has declined dramatically. That's why he's Marvel's redhead stepchild. He can barely support one ongoing. He can't support a film franchise. And overall, I think that most people are just done with the character because he really isn't all that deep to begin with and then you have people such as Corp and myself who refuse to look up to characters such as the Punisher and Wolverine while idealising non-lethal heroes.

 

[runawayboulder]

You must have never read Ennis' MAX run if you think the Punsher is not deep.

 

[cthulhu]

Barely support one ongoing? that would be why there have been two ongoings for the last 5 years and loads of guest appearences ect. You dont have to look up to fictional characters at all, just enjoy the stories if they appeal to you. Punisher comics dont glamourise killing, Frank knows where he's going and doesnt care for others opinions even though most of the MU disapprove. Wolverine is the one that kills by cutting people into bits and that appears to be OK with the rest of the MU

I always thought the reason some comic fans dislike the Punisher is that his methods are permanent as he kills bad guys as opposed to catching them, making other heroes look inneffectual by comparison.

And yes check out Ennis' Punisher Max = 5*

 

[Nasty-B]

Maybe part of the appeal was just the fact that the Franken-Castle era is over, but I thought "In the Blood" #1 was great, despite the so-so art. It really had the right balance of gritty vigilante action within a fantasy world setting. It reminded me a little of the Mike Baron run from the early 90's.

There was even some character development. See, what most people don't get about the Punisher is that it's not that he doesn't have any emotions, it's that he has repressed them so far down that it's exciting to see even a glimmer of humanity in him. He's like the stern and distant father that you want to say he is proud of you. He's like Red Forman on "That 70's Show." I like how Remender plays this up with Frank's relationship with Henry.

 

[Shockdingo]

I agree with you there. I've really enjoyed the inclusion of a younger tech guy (Henry) for this run. It's added so much more than adding someone of Frank's age to the mix. I really hope they keep him around.

 

[hippie_hunter]

You must have never read Ennis' MAX run if you think the Punsher is not deep.

Ennis' run is the exception, not the norm. Overall, the Punisher is rather simplistic.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Barely support one ongoing? that would be why there have been two ongoings for the last 5 years and loads of guest appearences ect.

If you take a look at how the Punisher sells now, both his books have tanked once Ennis left.

You dont have to look up to fictional characters at all, just enjoy the stories if they appeal to you. Punisher comics dont glamourise killing, Frank knows where he's going and doesnt care for others opinions even though most of the MU disapprove.

I think that the stories are rather good. While I don't find Frank to be that compelling, I find his environment to be rather interesting.

Wolverine is the one that kills by cutting people into bits and that appears to be OK with the rest of the MU

Yeah, that's pretty damn hypocritical if you ask me.

I always thought the reason some comic fans dislike the Punisher is that his methods are permanent as he kills bad guys as opposed to catching them, making other heroes look inneffectual by comparison.

It's not that at all. Hell, JMS' Superman is shown to be very effective without resorting to killing.

For me, I just tend to idoloize heroes that flat out refuse to kill like Spider-Man, Superman, and Batman. I think that vigilantes just shouldn't kill and those that do such as the Punisher and Wolverine should be condemned for it. Instead we now have Frank joining the Heroes for Hire and Wolverine on the Avengers.

 

[Shockdingo]

Well, I think it's a bit early to cast judgment on Frank's inclusion for Heroes for Hire, though Wolverine fits. As much as I love the character I get annoyed how in one breath they yell about Frank being a monster and a mindless killer, yet they're patting Wolverine on the back and handing him a medal. Say what you will about Frank, he may have killed 1,000s, but how many innocents has he killed? Wolverine has been mind controlled dozens of times and has killed innocents at times without his control (A senator, one of the Slingers, etc) but that's ALWAYS water under the bridge.

Frankly, while I too look up to heroes who don't kill, I'm a hypocrite. One, while I'm religious (though shall not kill and all) I still sometimes get so sickened by the scum out there that I say "splatter 'em!" and two, sometimes I look at things under a "real world view." What I mean by this, is that I put myself into the shoes of an average joe in the MU and go "Ugh....Carnage has escaped AGAIN?! Norman Osborn bombed a hospital? Ice that fiddle playing doodlheimer!"

I don't know. I'm losing my point, but one thing is, I'm fine with the reaction the MU has towards Frank, (frankly, pun not intended, I'd be worried if they were nonchalant about it) but I'm weirded out that not only are they chill with Wolverine doing his thing, he himself, no longer fights against his urge to kill. I miss the deeper, multi-layered Logan.

 

[PaleRider]

Not to get off topic but I have to say that I was not impressed with In the Blood. The punisher glider annoyed me. And if Remeder is going where it's hinting he's going with that woman in black leather I will be livid. To go with the topic that was being discussed, in this comic Frank came across VERY one dimensional.

 

[fat freddys cat]

Ennis' run is the exception, not the norm. Overall, the Punisher is rather simplistic.

Ennis's run is not an exception, when Ennis has done nearly 120 issues of the character, that's the norm, no other writer has done this much work on the character of the Punisher, and weather this is the exception or not,

is not the point it still shows the character has great depth, and proves really , that you have not read it....

Your prejudged to not liking the Punishers character, that's fine , but trying too say you think the character is shallow when it's clear you have not read the main work done on the character , is well simply , juvenile....

Plus , here is a list that shows the Punisher as anything but shallow:

Circle Of Blood by Steve Grant with art by Mike Zeck

Return to Big Nothing by the same above team

Punisher War Zone (1992) by Chuck Dixon with art by John Rominta JR

The whole of the Ennis run both Marvel Knights runs and MAX runs, counting specials , one shots, limited series etc etc.

Try reading these dude then maybe(there is more) , you would understand better Frank Castles character.

Now if your basing your idea that the Punisher has a shallow character by the MU 616 stories in the last five years By Matt Fraction (who admitted to 'not getting' Franks character) or Remender , who seems to be giving his Punisher stories his Fear Agent vibe, I would actually agree, it does not show case any kind of depth when it comes to Frank Castle, but that's hardly the 'norm' now is it?

Plus Jason Aarons Punisher MAX run is also showing great depth to Frank also, check it out, get the Kingpin Trade paper back , you will enjoy it.

 

[cthulhu]

Not to get off topic but I have to say that I was not impressed with In the Blood. The punisher glider annoyed me. And if Remeder is going where it's hinting he's going with that woman in black leather I will be livid. To go with the topic that was being discussed, in this comic Frank came across VERY one dimensional.

Yeah thats totally where remender is going its fairly obvious that she is

Spoiler

Maria

How did this get approved by editorial? Can you imagine this happening to Gwen Stacy? Thank heaven remender has only a few issues left to go as he has stuck the knife in during his whole run on the Punisher and this is just his final twist. Its sad as i enjoyed his previous work on other titles. No wonder marvel ended frankencastle early if this is where it was heading. Dont ever come back remender, you stink as a writer.

Another stupid thing about this issue was the Punisher at the start stating that all he had was a broom when two pages later it shows that he has at least three guns which he then uses! FFS!?!

 

[runawayboulder]

FINALLY, some news on PunisherMAX......sort of. Dillon got sick and thus the delay's. The book has not been canceled. I was sitting around thinking about this and googled it.

This is what I got:
http://www.weeklycrisis.com/2010/11/punishermax-maximum-delay.html

 

[Shockdingo]

Huzzah! Good news!

 

[cthulhu]

Yeah - good find. Marvel's feburary solicitations are due anytime so hopefully Max will be on there. Fingers crossed...

 

[NightBeetle]

PUNISHERMAX #10
Written by JASON AARON
Penciled by STEVE DILLON
Cover by DAVE JOHSON
“BULLSEYE,” PART 5
Marking the return of Jason Aaron and Steve Dillon’s acclaimed PUNISHERMAX this issue finds the Punisher gunning for the Kingpin with the entire NYPD breathing down his neck. The Kingpin is counting on Bullseye to get the Punisher before the Punisher gets him but the assassin has been slowly driving himself crazy trying to figure out the riddle of Frank Castle.
32 PGS./Explicit Content …$3.9

PUNISHER: IN THE BLOOD #4 (of 5)
Written by RICK REMENDER
Penciled by ROLAND BOSCHI
Cover by JEAN-SEBASTIAN ROSSBACH
Who is the gorgeous, leather-clad, burn victim romantically entangled with both the Jigsaw Brothers? The answer will twist the knife buried deep in the belly of Frank Castle. The answer will shred his soul. The Punisher has fought his way though a hurricane of broken glass, nothing has broken him. He fought on. But no longer. Not after today. Not after the final revenge of The Jigsaw Brothers. The Punisher will never recover from this.
32 PGS./Parental Advisory …$3.99

 

[cthulhu]

Punisher Max is alive!!! YAY!!! and by this stage remenisher only has one issue left double YAY!!!

 

[claydogg]

1 more month and I can get to the bullseye/kingpin/punisher face-off!