The Dark Knight Rises The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 1

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]389081[/split]

 

[TheIrishAvenger]

A couple of SHH members have seen the film and it hits Australian cinemas tomorrow so here is the thread where you can write your review and rate the film. Discussion is allowed and be civil!

 

[Voyeur]

Why did you feel the need to point that out when I made clear that it was my own opinion?

I would think it's obvious. My original point was no less valid simply because you didn't like his storytelling.

 

[Zatanna]

I would think it's obvious. My original point was no less valid simply because you didn't like his storytelling.

And my opinion was just as valid as yours. I wasn't trying to get across that YOUR OPINION wasn't valid.

 

[UaalaDan]

1. I think 3 months had passed while he was in the prison. Correct me if I'm wrong.

2. Yeah, Nolan could have shown him having chronic injuries from his back and legs after prison, but I can live with what was not shown. He was a ninja after all.

3. The movie is supposed to be based in a certain amount of realism, but lets not forget this is still a superhero comic BATMAN film lol.

4. "All you had to do is jump over a step" Definitely not that easy. What he had to do was take a blind leap of faith with the only thought that he would make it or die. There was no second chance. He could not make the jumps previously, because he had the rope and the rope symbolized failure and trying to get. To borrow from Star Wars, there is no try. Bruce had to make the jump or die trying. In the jail he learned to live and not fear death in addition to not welcoming death. He had to learn to live and do what he must or die doing so.

That's why the [BLACKOUT]Talia[/BLACKOUT] made it. There was nothing to go back to if [BLACKOUT]she[/BLACKOUT] failed. She was already in hell, dying by living there so it was either make it out or die.

I just did not like the concept of the prison and felt offended. It was very prejudiced to image a prison in a foreign country run by villains, imo, or no government interaction or anything. This is 2012 not 1800. It is a very narrow view of the world. I expected more from Nolan.

Moreover, i think they missed a chance for showing Bruce in need of an exoskeleton for the final Battle, just like he does in Kingdom Come and other Batman comics. They simply ignored his injuries like nothing happened. All he did was have a few push-ups and say "oh im angry"... The concept of his body failing him which was the main theme of the movie was completely ignored.

 

[Midnight Black]

I just did not like the concept of the prison and felt offended. It was very prejudiced to image a prison in a foreign country run by villains, imo, or no government interaction or anything. This is 2012 not 1800. It is a very narrow view of the world. I expected more from Nolan.

You're aware though that there are things that go on in 2nd world and 3rd world countries that are heinous atrocities that our government doesn't know or does know about and worse doesn't care to step in and do anything about right???

Also, this jail/pit was suppose to symbolize the lazarus pit, where those that make it out are reborn from the fire and made a new.

It wasn't prejudice in any way. Plus there were white, black, european, and asian people in the pit.

Are you sure you're not trolling? Do you work for Sony? Do you work for the Amazing Spider-man marketing team? I'm sorry, but your gripes seem really, really petty. If you're not trolling then you just didn't like the movie, just cause.

 

[Matt]

You're aware though that there are things that go on in 2nd world and 3rd world countries that are heinous atrocities that our government doesn't know or does know about and worse doesn't care to step in and do anything about right???

Also, this jail/pit was suppose to symbolize the lazarus pit, where those that make it out are reborn from the fire and made a new.

It wasn't prejudice in any way. Plus there were white, black, european, and asian people in the pit.

Are you sure you're not trolling? Do you work for Sony? Do you work for the Amazing Spider-man marketing team? I'm sorry, but your gripes seem really, really petty. If you're not trolling then you just didn't like the movie, just cause.

I didn't think it was prejudice but I did think it was a bit weird. Wise old men who heal people's broken back by punching them? Worst doctors ever!

 

[conan69]

UallaDan, to add to your complaint about the prison - which is supposed ot be a "hell on earth", it was rather a cheerful place. In house chiropractors, they tell uplifting stories, provide cable TV and cheer u on to escape. Where was the torment, hate, fear, enldess pain,suffering, etc.

I dont think people who dont like the film are "just nitpicking". I dont see lapses in logic, sloppy/poor even lazy storytelling, and plot contrivances as nitpicking.

Asking for a well made film with a good story that makes sense is asking too much I guess?

 

[UaalaDan]

You're aware though that there are things that go on in 2nd world and 3rd world countries that are heinous atrocities that our government doesn't know or does know about and worse doesn't care to step in and do anything about right???

Also, this jail/pit was suppose to symbolize the lazarus pit, where those that make it out are reborn from the fire and made a new.

It wasn't prejudice in any way. Plus there were white, black, european, and asian people in the pit.

Are you sure you're not trolling? Do you work for Sony? Do you work for the Amazing Spider-man marketing team? I'm sorry, but your gripes seem really, really petty. If you're not trolling then you just didn't like the movie, just cause.

Not only im aware but i`m also from Brazil. It wasn't my country but I was still offended. This is unfortunately how some Americans view the rest of the world. A little bit of studying wouldn't do any problems. I mean, Asia was represented good in Batman Begins and TDK. In this movie it was just absurd, imo.

I know it was supposed to represent the Lazarus pit and the concept is good. It just made no sense to me and I don't think the execution was good at all. Like I said, they completely ignored the injuries he sustained through the movie and the explanation you're offering is that I should ignore a plot-hole because it is a comic book movie and that in itself doesn't have logic which is BS.

 

[Zatanna]

I should add that in terms of Nolan's storytelling, I didn't have many problems as far as that is concerned with BB and TDK, but this film? Yeah, I found many problems and too many things that didn't make sense to me. But somehow I ended up enjoying it more than TDK.

 

[UaalaDan]

UallaDan, to add to your complaint about the prison - which is supposed ot be a "hell on earth", it was rather a cheerful place. In house chiropractors, they tell uplifting stories, provide cable TV and cheer u on to escape. Where was the torment, hate, fear, enldess pain,suffering, etc.

I dont think people who dont like the film are "just nitpicking". I dont see lapses in logic, sloppy/poor even lazy storytelling, and plot contrivances as nitpicking.

Asking for a well made film with a good story that makes sense is asking too much I guess?

See, the more you think about the movie, the more you find more plot-holes.

 

[Midnight Black]

I didn't think it was prejudice but I did think it was a bit weird. Wise old men who heal people's broken back by punching them? Worst doctors ever!

t: That's that old school medicine lol.

Not only im aware but i`m also from Brazil. It wasn't my country but I was still offended. This is unfortunately how some Americans view the rest of the world. A little bit of studying wouldn't do any problems. I mean, Asia was represented good in Batman Begins and TDK. In this movie it was just absurd, imo.

I know it was supposed to represent the Lazarus pit and the concept is good. It just made no sense to me and I don't think the execution was good at all. Like I said, they completely ignored the injuries he sustained through the movie and the explanation you're offering is that I should ignore a plot-hole because it is a comic book movie and that in itself doesn't have logic which is BS.

So it's absurd because the lazarus pit was made to be a prison/hell on earth and was in a foreign country?

He was there fore 3 months. So a minor broken back or out of alignment lombard can't heal in 3 months? Not a plot-hole.

 

[jmc]

UallaDan, to add to your complaint about the prison - which is supposed ot be a "hell on earth", it was rather a cheerful place. In house chiropractors, they tell uplifting stories, provide cable TV and cheer u on to escape. Where was the torment, hate, fear, enldess pain,suffering, etc.

I dont think people who dont like the film are "just nitpicking". I dont see lapses in logic, sloppy/poor even lazy storytelling, and plot contrivances as nitpicking.

Asking for a well made film with a good story that makes sense is asking too much I guess?

Nitpicking is saying I didn't like the way his cape flowed or something like that. This happens every time with one of these films, whether it's Batman, a Marvel movie or whatever, people bring up legitimate complaints, in some cases valid ones, and they get branded as whiny fanboys or some crap like that.

 

[The_Fire_Rises]

nvm

 

[Voyeur]

I believe Bane explained quite effectively what makes that pit hellish. Not because of any physical torture, but because viewing the opening gives the prisoners hope for escape they will likely never achieve. Something like that.

 

[UaalaDan]

No, it just wasn't done properly. Being in a foreign country is the nail in the coffin.

 

[Midnight Black]

See, the more you think about the movie, the more you find more plot-holes.

Though there a few holes, there weren't as many as you are saying. As the prisoner had said I think, "It was Bane's prison now." He brought order to it in some way, IMO. Yeah it had TV, and wise old men. Why not? Prison's don't have TVs? If you look closely when Bruce gets out there are power lines in the background running along the town/city, so electricity was obviously a possibility down there lol.

Wise old men? Yep, every prison has them. One of the prisoners was the prison doctor. Broken back/lombard? No problem we have an in-house doctor.

Bam!

 

[UaalaDan]

I believe Bane explained quite effectively what makes that pit hellish. Not because of any physical torture, but because viewing the opening gives the prisoners hope for escape they will likely never achieve. Something like that.

It is still pretty stupid concept. I mean, all that was hard was a leap?!?!? What about the rest of the climb? Ignored completely. If the pit had no steps and all, maybe I would've bought it.

As it is, it sucked.

 

[roach]

Bane's comic origin is that he was born in a hellish non-american prison. I don't get the nitpick. This isn't American whitewashing of everything non American since Gotham (an American city) is depicted as the most corrupt city in the world.

 

[Midnight Black]

No, it just wasn't done properly. Being in a foreign country is the nail in the coffin.

It was in a foreign country, because Ras, Talia, Bane are all from foreign countries...even in the comics. You mean to tell me you want other comic canon, but the lazarus pit that's not in Gotham or the U.S. as far as I can remember you want to be in America, just so that foreign countries don't look bad??? I'm guessing this was in Asia/India or some part of Europe or something, either way it all fit.

 

[The_Fire_Rises]

My thoughts after a third viewing.

Spoiler

It still has a ton of really obvious problems and lots of things feel rushed, but damn, once I just accepted what it was and let myself enjoy the experience, I had a lot of fun with it.

What really helped me get over a lot of my, but not all, my problems with it was ignoring any real attempt the Nolan bros made at giving this movie any type of serious thematic weight, because it really has none due to how quickly things move along. By taking it as really nothing but an entertaining popcorn movie, it pisses me off a lot less. I just wish that the Nolans had made a decision to either go with a serious, more TDK movie tonally or just go flat out explosions and cheesy one liners. Their attempt to mix both together is wasted with how much they try to cram in and how thin the last 45 minutes is on any real substance. They try to throw in a bunch of quasi seriousness and depth in the first two acts, then throw it all out of the door with the big fight at the end. But taking the whole movie in the same light as the third act helped me to like it more.

I'm still torn on the ending. On one hand, I get what they were going for with the whole speech Blake gives at the beginning about how he knows what Bruce went through as a kid, but I never felt really connected to him or felt I saw him do enough things worthy of Bruce handing over directions to the Bat Cave to him. One thing I noticed during this third viewing was that while Blake has lots of screen time, I didn't feel he really did much to warrant his being given the mantle. He's either doing pretty standard police stuff or visiting the boys home. However, Bruce has absolutely no training before he started on his journey with Ra's, so perhaps he and Blake are more similar than I'd like to admit. I know that Nolan set up the whole 'Batman is a symbol thing' in Batman Begins and that the ending pretty much follows that logic to a tee, but I will always see Batman as Bruce Wayne and no one else, so my mixed feelings about the ending have more to do with me as a fan perhaps than anything the Nolans did specifically.

Here are some other things that went through my mind:

1. They really telegraphed Tate's turn as Talia to the Bat fans when she says to Bruce "do what is necessary" before Bruce runs off with Fox to get back in Bat shape. I didn't notice it during the first two screenings.

2. I adore Bane even more than I did before. I hate how he was killed off at the end, but I got super giddy whenever he was on screen. The sewer fight is still my favourite part of the movie.

3. I thought more about Alfred's leaving during the movie this time, and i've come to this conclusion. As far as staying true to the comics, Alfred leaving is taken right out of Knightfall. As far as staying true to the internal logic of the trilogy, I think his leaving actually makes perfect sense. Alfred's decision to "nevah" leave Bruce was based a lot on believing that Bruce would in fact give up being Batman after a certain period of time. So much of TDK is Bruce trying to find the best out of being Batman. However, Bruce's decision to suddenly take up the cowl again in the beginning of TDKR shatters this belief. Alfred then believes that Bruce will never stop being Batman, and that wasn't any part of his original decision to stand behind Bruce. Rather than see his surrogate son maim himself physically and spiritually, he decides to leave. With that thinking in mind, the scene when Alfred leaves is much more powerful for me.

3. How in the hell did Bruce call the Bat to him when he escapes the pit? I thought for a fleeting moment that he contacts Fox and gives him his location so Fox can send the Bat on autopilot to pick him up, but Gotham's cut off from the rest of the country. Would there be working phones?

4. I know lots of people hate the Talia reveal at the end (It falls flat for me each time) but someone in the audience let out a really loud gasp of shock when she stabbed Bruce.

Overall, TDKR is not what I was expecting at all, but even with all of it's glaring flaws, I think I can now watch it and enjoy it as a big superhero blockbuster. 7/10.

 

[UaalaDan]

It was in a foreign country, because Ras, Talia, Bane are all from foreign countries...even in the comics. You mean to tell me you want other comic canon, but the lazarus pit that's not in Gotham or the U.S. as far as I can remember you want to be in America, just so that foreign countries don't look bad??? I'm guessing this was in Asia/India or some part of Europe or something, either way it all fit.

No,it just deserved a better and more thoroughly explanation for something that was such a central concept and plot point in the movie.

 

[Voyeur]

It is still pretty stupid concept. I mean, all that was hard was a leap?!?!? What about the rest of the climb? Ignored completely. If the pit had no steps and all, maybe I would've bought it.

As it is, it sucked.

I feel bad you didn't like that scene. So many of us cheered when he made the jump. Oh well. A pity.

 

[UaalaDan]

I feel bad you didn't like that scene. So many of us cheered when he made the jump. Oh well. A pity.

Yeah, i wasn't emotionally invested because they simply forgot all the injuries in his body.

A similar thing was done in Iron Man and it was a thousand times better, imo.

 

[Midnight Black]

He had one major injury though, which was a dislocated lombard protruding from his back. He spent 3 months in that prison, working out and getting stronger; though, I doubt he was getting the protein he needed.