The Official SAW V thread

[Trevor Goodchild]

It's basically $10 extra for a talking case...the case has a saw in it that talks in Jigsaw's voice when you push a button, other than that, it's precisely the same, same features...the unrated version even has a cooler cover.

What does Jigsaw's voice say?
I already have a case from my Saw IV DVD, I wouldn't want to get another one, if he says the same thing...

 

[Eelectro 2]

i truely believe 6 will be the last one...the last true sequel anyways. my hopes are that 6will be the second half of everything 5 brought to the table, cuz basically 5 wasn't a whole movie (though i still enjoy it); it relies on knowledge of the first movies a great deal and definetly has a more cliffhanger ending than previous movies

and one comment, how cool would it be to have the beginning of saw VI be hoffman struggling to get free out of the glass box? if it is truely the test that jigsaw intended it for (key hidden within glass underneath you) that would be a nice opening. however hoffman has so much clothing on that it really wouldnt' do much to anything but his hands. i'd like to see this if nothing else than to show its significance in saw IV and not be just an escape from the compactor in V

 

[Spider-Fan]

'Poor' in what sense?
I could describe some of the deaths (or death revelations) in Saw V as ‘poor’ too.

The guy getting killed was kind of random, since Saw III gives you the impression he's going to be involved in another game. Kind of leaves a poor taste in my mouth.

As if the secret passage in Jigsaw's death room containing a tape specifically addressed to Strahm wasn't a stretch either.
In fact nothing springs to mind what Jigsaw would've specifically had to have prediction superpowers for other than Strahm's character in both movies - IV and V. Maybe you have some examples you want to address?
I know it's hard to believe but once you delve into psychology, chess, the stalk market and military strategy, it doesn't sound any less plausible.
However, that wasn't your initial point.

In IV, he basically calls EVERYTHING that the one cop was going to do in a 1 hour period (or whatever the time period was...can't remember exactly). All the places he'd go and such. The fact that he made those traps that specific in a time sense and place sense I felt was kind of ludicrous. I know, if he didn't do that then the ending doesn't happen, but Jigsaw was able to map out a VERY specific scenario that ended that way in IV. I just felt like the movie hinged too much on chance.

Ah, the SAW haters are out of the woodwork again? I just bought the DVD and let me say that this film in my opinion is one of the strongest. One of reasons I like it(from my point of view) is that it's a return to the format of the first film.

The traps were simple and effective, the story was strong, the character development of Strahm and Hoffman was strong and they fed off each other real well.

The unrated DVD directors cut is a lot better and it ties up a lot of the loose ends in the theatrical version. It's slightly extended with some new scenes added in and some new flashback sequences. I truly believe that the sixth will be the final film and that it'll bring it all full circle. As for the twist? The twist wasn't lame. I don't care what anyone says they didn't see the finality of everything coming.

I definitely didn't think

Spoiler

Strahm was going to get crushed by the walls. Although it was interesting to see how Hoffman was setting him up and I didn't fully realize it until Erickson called Strahm.

I'm not a Saw hater at all. I love 1 and thoroughly enjoyed III. II I felt is okay, also. I just feel like the past two movies have beel lackluster, and that they are searching for an identity now that Jigsaw died. So far, I don't think what they have done has worked. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[CelticPredator]

Ah, the SAW haters are out of the woodwork again? I .[/spoiler]

Oh shush. Its a DISCUSSION thread...where people can...DISCUSS their thoughts on it. Good OR BAD. Deal.

 

[Trevor Goodchild]

The guy getting killed was kind of random, since Saw III gives you the impression he's going to be involved in another game. Kind of leaves a poor taste in my mouth.

It wasn’t random. It was a twist. A tragic event that went totally opposite to audience expectations. His game was over and it’s safe to assume that everyone wanted Jeff to reunite with his daughter, even if Saw III kinda left him trapped there. It was heartbreaking, yes. But that’s why it works so well.

In IV, he basically calls EVERYTHING that the one cop was going to do in a 1 hour period (or whatever the time period was...can't remember exactly). All the places he'd go and such. The fact that he made those traps that specific in a time sense and place sense I felt was kind of ludicrous. I know, if he didn't do that then the ending doesn't happen, but Jigsaw was able to map out a VERY specific scenario that ended that way in IV. I just felt like the movie hinged too much on chance.

Which cop? Rigg or Strahm?
I presume you’re talking about Rigg.
The cop didn’t just go from place to place on a whim. He was specifically led by Jigsaw with specific clues. Other than the final test in the warehouse, none of the traps were timed, he just needed to do specific things to uncover the next clue. He didn’t even have to be as involved with some of the traps as he was. Rigg was acting on his own free will after Jigsaw gave him his own advice.
Jigsaw is always counting on his plans to proceed in two ways - either his victims pass the game or they do not. And then events unfold accordingly.
It wasn’t chance, as much as it was the character’s choice.

Btw, are you abandoning your first argument about Saw IV supposedly relying on ‘extreme’ change?

Oh shush. Its a DISCUSSION thread...where people can...DISCUSS their thoughts on it. Good OR BAD. Deal.

LastSunrise is concerned precisely because of that.
Many ‘saw haters’ that appear here every so often do not DISCUSS their opinions with others beyond stating their usual one sentence of malcontent.

 

[Slushy]

Spoiler

Did any of you happen to catch the blood trail when Strahm walked through the hallway? As you know he was in the house from SAW 1 and 2.

The blood trail seemed to lead to a shut door(presumably to the bathroom?) I find it hard to believe that the blood was Detective Matthews. I don't think a broken foot would generate that much blood loss.

It was Matthews. Dr. Gordon didn't leave one.

i truely believe 6 will be the last one...the last true sequel anyways. my hopes are that 6will be the second half of everything 5 brought to the table, cuz basically 5 wasn't a whole movie (though i still enjoy it); it relies on knowledge of the first movies a great deal and definetly has a more cliffhanger ending than previous movies

The SAW producers said as long as the SAW movies keep making money, they will keep making them.

Spoiler

In IV, he basically calls EVERYTHING that the one cop was going to do in a 1 hour period (or whatever the time period was...can't remember exactly). All the places he'd go and such. The fact that he made those traps that specific in a time sense and place sense I felt was kind of ludicrous. I know, if he didn't do that then the ending doesn't happen, but Jigsaw was able to map out a VERY specific scenario that ended that way in IV. I just felt like the movie hinged too much on chance.

I can understand with Rigg because he was the game player, but Jigsaw being able to predict WHEN Strahm would act was something I couldn't take seriously. Thankfully, SAW V starts where III left off so you didn't miss much with IV, since the flick was mainly filler.

It wasn’t random. It was a twist. A tragic event that went totally opposite to audience expectations. His game was over and it’s safe to assume that everyone wanted Jeff to reunite with his daughter, even if Saw III kinda left him trapped there. It was heartbreaking, yes. But that’s why it works so well.

Well, I figured with SAW IV, it would open up where the previous film left off like how III did with II. As a matter of fact, with the way SAW V opened up after Seth's trap with Strahm, that's exactly what I wanted except in this case, Strahm had replaced Jeff.

 

[CelticPredator]

LastSunrise is concerned precisely because of that.
Many ‘saw haters’ that appear here every so often do not DISCUSS their opinions with others beyond stating their usual one sentence of malcontent.

Sometimes people dont want to go on about something they hate....(I love to!)

I mean, why even call them "haters"? Thats elitist ******** right there.

Its like say, i'm the biggest Saw fan in the world. I have a bunch of props, autographs, all the DVD's...I was even in the movie or something....and I see Saw V, and hate it. I hate it so much I dont have the words...am I a "hater"?

**** that term, and whoever came up with that. In the Indy thread, theres people who LOATH the movie...I dont understand it, but I do understand its their opinion, and they can think whatever they want to.

 

[Trevor Goodchild]

I can understand with Rigg because he was the game player, but Jigsaw being able to predict WHEN Strahm would act was something I couldn't take seriously.

Now that I agree with. And his predictability curse still carries onto Saw V. Nevertheless it’s only one character.

Thankfully, SAW V starts where III left off so you didn't miss much with IV, since the flick was mainly filler.

It isn’t as much a filler as it is a prequel. We wouldn’t know much about Jigsaw’s past and his true motivations, if it wasn’t for Saw IV. It does answer a bunch of questions, like where did he initially take his victim list from.
The thing is, any instalment between the first and the last could be considered as filler. What does Saw III do to advance the story?

Well, I figured with SAW IV, it would open up where the previous film left off like how III did with II. As a matter of fact, with the way SAW V opened up after Seth's trap with Strahm, that's exactly what I wanted except in this case, Strahm had replaced Jeff.

There’s a lot of what Strahm did that Jeff couldn’t possibly do, so the story would unfold in a completely different direction. Besides, what would Jeff do, once the police gave him his daughter back? The plot would have to be stuck in the warehouse for another hour and a half.

Sometimes people dont want to go on about something they hate....(I love to!)
I mean, why even call them "haters"? Thats elitist ******** right there.

Whatever you call them, if they can’t backup their words, they’re still a bunch of trolls.

Its like say, i'm the biggest Saw fan in the world. I have a bunch of props, autographs, all the DVD's...I was even in the movie or something....and I see Saw V, and hate it. I hate it so much I dont have the words...am I a "hater"?

No, that would make you a very pissed off fan, since apparently you actually care for the series, which couldn’t be said about the ‘haters’. They mostly just like to hate, that’s why we label them as such.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It wasn’t random. It was a twist. A tragic event that went totally opposite to audience expectations. His game was over and it’s safe to assume that everyone wanted Jeff to reunite with his daughter, even if Saw III kinda left him trapped there. It was heartbreaking, yes. But that’s why it works so well.


Which cop? Rigg or Strahm?
I presume you’re talking about Rigg.
The cop didn’t just go from place to place on a whim. He was specifically led by Jigsaw with specific clues. Other than the final test in the warehouse, none of the traps were timed, he just needed to do specific things to uncover the next clue. He didn’t even have to be as involved with some of the traps as he was. Rigg was acting on his own free will after Jigsaw gave him his own advice.
Jigsaw is always counting on his plans to proceed in two ways - either his victims pass the game or they do not. And then events unfold accordingly.
It wasn’t chance, as much as it was the character’s choice.

Btw, are you abandoning your first argument about Saw IV supposedly relying on ‘extreme’ change?

I'm not abandoning it. It was an extreme chance that what Jigsaw predicted would happen the way it did. In the other movies, the traps made it easier to predict what people were going to do and it is more believeable. The fact Jigsaw could work out that the cop could decifer his clues in that period of time, resulting in what happens to me is not believable. Yes, his predictions were based on choices, but predicting he would make this specific series of choices in that time frame is too far. Compare this to even Saw V. The game in Saw V works a bit better cause it is obvious they had to work together, and the fact they don't can be predicted believably (though I felt Saw V was flawed in other areas). The fact I found a central piece of the movie to not be believable bogged the movie down heavily for me.

 

[The Dark Defender]

What does Jigsaw's voice say?
I already have a case from my Saw IV DVD, I wouldn't want to get another one, if he says the same thing...

I'm not sure what he says.

Anyways, if someone doesn't want to express why they hate something, than they certainly shouldn't be relentlessly lambasting, strong, passionate opinions should be accompanied by valid points that are specifically supported by the film, otherwise it's just mindless banter; in my experience those that spout off the mindless banter are the quickest to talk down to others about their opinions.
"Oh this piece of **** isn't nearly as deep as you give credit for," as said by someone with almost nothing to support their viewpoint that's saying it to someone that's offered plenty to support theirs. That's just stupid and ignorant.
Don't accuse something of being shallow and pointless if you're going to present a shallow opinion that's void of points.

 

[ManofmyWord]

One big plothole that is bothering the piss out of me, is how is the tape/puppet in Seth's trap Jigsaw's voice? He had nothing to do with it.

 

[The Dark Defender]

Hoffman just digitally altered his voice to make himself sound like Jigsaw...sort of like the Scream voice changer technique.

 

[Trevor Goodchild]

I'm not abandoning it. It was an extreme chance that what Jigsaw predicted would happen the way it did.

Ah, I thought you were talking about ‘change’ in the sense that Saw IV supposedly changed the plot established by the previous three movies.
In that sense, sure, it’s a change, but I would hardly call it ‘extreme’. It’s just a slight change of plot or of a character trait.

In the other movies, the traps made it easier to predict what people were going to do and it is more believeable. The fact Jigsaw could work out that the cop could decifer his clues in that period of time, resulting in what happens to me is not believable.

Again, you fail to specify which cop - the swat member Rigg or fbi agent Strahm?
If you’re talking about Strahm, sure, I agree with you.
But in Rigg’s game there was hardly anything relying on any kind of prediction. He either did what he did or not.
Let’s examine his tests then shall we:
Besides saving Det. Mathews in time, he had to go through several places to uncover his friend’s whereabouts.
-First was Brenda’s hair trap. Jigsaw told him to walk away but instead Rigg pulled her mask and trigged her trap.
Then after barely saving her, it turns out that Brenda was told before that, if he got her out of the trap, she would have to kill him, unless she wanted to face a jail sentence. In the same room he found clues and keys that would lead him to the motel.
-Then there was Ivan’s motel trap. Upon discovering that Ivan was a rapist, Rigg became furious and forced Ivan into the trap. When he picked up Ivan’s tape, he triggered a cabinet that revealed his next clue. Even if Jigsaw was counting on Rigg to put Ivan in the trap, he didn’t have to, in order to find the clue. He just acted on anger.
-Finally there was Rex and Morgan’s spike trap. Rigg wasn’t even involved in it. He arrived only when it was over, to collect the last clue. Jigsaw gave him a choice to either save Morgan or not. Either way his choice would be inconsequential to the advancement of his game.
So where did Jigsaw supposedly predict any of Rigg’s actions in any of those situations?
Just like in Saw V, Jigsaw just told him what to do and there were two possible choices - either he did it or he didn’t. He never said anything similar to what he said to Strahm, like the line ‘he is about to kill an innocent man’.

The game in Saw V works a bit better cause it is obvious they had to work together, and the fact they don't can be predicted believably (though I felt Saw V was flawed in other areas).

Saw V’s game didn’t rely on Jigsaw predicting that they would make the wrong choice. He gave them clues, just like all of Jigsaw’s games and tests it relied on the victims to understand those clues, either they did or didn’t, the game would proceed as planed.

 

[Slushy]

There’s a lot of what Strahm did that Jeff couldn’t possibly do, so the story would unfold in a completely different direction. Besides, what would Jeff do, once the police gave him his daughter back? The plot would have to be stuck in the warehouse for another hour and a half.

Well, that's a good point, but I felt cheated because I thought SAW IV would start with Jeff dying (but being able to save his daughter in the process) in the opening sequence. It would've been cool to see him in the Water Trap.

It isn’t as much a filler as it is a prequel. We wouldn’t know much about Jigsaw’s past and his true motivations, if it wasn’t for Saw IV. It does answer a bunch of questions, like where did he initially take his victim list from.

That's a good point, but other than Jigsaw's backstory, all you got from SAW IV was that Matthews and Rigg were goners and Hoffman was confirmed to be involved.

Plus in SAW V,

Spoiler

Jigsaw gives Hoffman the folder containing the SAW V victims. Rigg wasn't even talked about.

What does Saw III do to advance the story?

The theme was family. The tragedy with Denlons as well as Jigsaw and Amanda's relationship being more focused on.

One big plothole that is bothering the piss out of me, is how is the tape/puppet in Seth's trap Jigsaw's voice? He had nothing to do with it.

On the commentary, it was explained that Hoffman used a voice simulator.

 

[Trevor Goodchild]

Well, that's a good point, but I felt cheated because I thought SAW IV would start with Jeff dying (but being able to save his daughter in the process) in the opening sequence. It would've been cool to see him in the Water Trap.

You liked the character, sure.

That's a good point, but other than Jigsaw's backstory, all you got from SAW IV was that Matthews and Rigg were goners and Hoffman was confirmed to be involved.

Well isn’t that enough? And we don’t actually know that Rigg died until Saw V.
What does Saw III do, other than finally killing of Jigsaw?

Plus in SAW V,

Spoiler

Jigsaw gives Hoffman the folder containing the SAW V victims. Rigg wasn't even talked about.

So? I don’t see your point.

The theme was family. The tragedy with Denlons as well as Jigsaw and Amanda's relationship being more focused on.

Well, for one the theme of the movie is not an advancement in plot, it’s just the theme.
The Denlon-Reinhart relationship is the focus of the movie, sure. But since we didn’t know anything about them from the previous two films, it’s hardly an advancement, it’s only an addition.
So yeah, they expanded on Jigsaw and Amanda’s relationship, killed him off, showed Mathews to be still alive and in addition killed off Det. Kerry.
On the other hand Saw IV showed a lot of Jigsaw’s origins, focused on his relationship with Jill Tuck, expanded on Rigg’s character, like they did with every other major policeman in the series, revealed Hoffman as the apprentice and finally killed off Mathews with Jeff.
So it’s really inaccurate to say that Saw IV was mainly filler.

 

[The Dark Defender]

SAW III did plenty to advance the story, it completed Amanda's arc which had been building since the first film and was the first installment of the series that actually had the villains suffer the reprecussions for their actions, it was the culminated of the entire saga and gave the series a conclusive ending (granted they chose to carry on anyway, but SAW III still completed the story).

 

[Trevor Goodchild]

SAW III did plenty to advance the story, it completed Amanda's arc which had been building since the first film and was the first installment of the series that actually had the villains suffer the reprecussions for their actions, it was the culminated of the entire saga and gave the series a conclusive ending (granted they chose to carry on anyway, but SAW III still completed the story).

It wasn't a full rounded conclusion but I don't doubt any of that.
I'm saying that Saw IV brought just as much if not even more to the table. That's why I'm opposed to calling it as merely a filler.

 

[The Dark Defender]

I don't think it brought is much at all...I know about "filler" but SAW III felt like the culmination of a trilogy, SAW IV just felt like a lengthy trailer for the next film disguised as a full length feature.

I still like SAW IV, but I think it's easily the weakest of the series and III is easily the best.

BTW, for the person that asked, I found the spinning SAW collector's edition at FYE today and when you push on it John's voice says "you think it's over, but the agmes have just begun."

 

[CrypticOne]

Just a quick question. Does John's autopsy take place after the events of SAW V? Cause there was no mention of it in V.

 

[The Chris]

Just a quick question. Does John's autopsy take place after the events of SAW V? Cause there was no mention of it in V.

Good question. Still trying to figure that out. anyone else?

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Just a quick question. Does John's autopsy take place after the events of SAW V? Cause there was no mention of it in V.

That is the safe bet. It only makes sense when you consider that Jigsaw told Hoffman in IV ""Are you there Detective? If so, it's probably because you're the last man standing."

So we know SAW III and IV were happening at the same time, SAW V happens immediately after the events of IV which leads into VI which is where Hoffman's test will come into play.

 

[Trevor Goodchild]

I don't think it brought is much at all...I know about "filler" but SAW III felt like the culmination of a trilogy, SAW IV just felt like a lengthy trailer for the next film disguised as a full length feature.

It’s understandable that you feel this way, because obviously Saw III felt like a genuine ending for you. And yes, in a way Saw IV does seed plenty of potential for the second trilogy, which Saw V didn’t live up to, if you ask me. But come on, calling it solely a ‘set up trailer’ is just as ignorant as calling it a ‘filler’.
Again, there was Jigsaw’s back-story, which is lots of new stuff that was never shown in any other movie, and then there’s Rigg’s game, which is almost the same as Jeff’s…only better imo.

I still like SAW IV, but I think it's easily the weakest of the series and III is easily the best.

Hmm, it’s curios that, among Saw fans, those who like III the best, most often consider IV to be the worst. IV is actually a very rare favourite. Many people are quicker to like all the other instalments, even II and V, above it.

BTW, for the person that asked, I found the spinning SAW collector's edition at FYE today and when you push on it John's voice says "you think it's over, but the agmes have just begun."

Great, it’s official then. I won’t be buying that special box set because it says absolutely the same thing it did for IV.

 

[The Dark Defender]

Yes, the autopsy takes place after the events of SAW V, that's why John's body is still on the bed he died on in SAW III.

 

[Slushy]

So? I don’t see your point.

SAW III ends with Jeff.

Spoiler

SAW V starts with Jeff (after Seth). So by watching SAW V without SAW IV, you're not really missing anything besides another Jigsaw history lesson.

then there’s Rigg’s game, which is almost the same as Jeff’s…only better imo.

Nope. Rigg's game was merely a carbon copy of Jeff's. I found it lame that the only way Rigg could've won his game was to...not play at all. WTF?

Just a quick question. Does John's autopsy take place after the events of SAW V? Cause there was no mention of it in V.

Spoiler

During the credits, the music from Jigsaw's autopsy is played.

 

[CrypticOne]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure John's autopsy is after V.