Age of Ultron The Official Scarlet Witch Thread - Part 2

[universeman]

I really hope she and Vision do not have a thing in the MCU... Solely my opinion; you don't have to agree!

The BW and Bruce romance was very poorly done and provided nothing for the film; it was kind of just there in the script and served little real purpose.

BW and Rogers in TWS, now that worked! Regardless of if it was intended as romance or not, it still worked

I agree with you which is shocking since all last year I was all for Vision/Wanda but now not so much, I went from shipping Wanda/Vision to shipping Wanda/Steve, they do have a similar history where they could relate to each other. Them ending up together would be something no one saw coming, a big twist like [BLACKOUT]that ending in AOS S2 finale really did anyone saw that coming?[/BLACKOUT]

 

[thanos1990]

From the VFX breakdown:

Vision looks so awesome in CGI and Particle effect

 

[queendarkness12]

What the **** is with people and "shipping." It's these bizarre fantasies and constant need for fictional characters to be ****ing each other.

I like shipping and pairings for the purpose of it being just fantasy fun, but other people can get real hammy with it.

I don't like how the crazy dummies kind of ruin the fun for other people.

 

[AvengerPA]

Scarlet Witch and Black Widow face merge:
http://moviepilot.com/posts/2015/05...abeth-olsen-2909901?lt_source=external,manual

 

[Dave McFly]

strange......yet I like it

 

[Mad Ones]

I hate Scarlet Witch in the comics but I thought she was a breakout character in AoU.

 

[universeman]

I hate Scarlet Witch in the comics but I thought she was a breakout character in AoU.

Why do you hate her in the comics? if you mind me asking I think she's ok.

 

[Wildcard]

Scarlet Witch and Black Widow face merge:
http://moviepilot.com/posts/2015/05...abeth-olsen-2909901?lt_source=external,manual

This is strangely acceptable.

 

[AvengerPA]

 

[Mad Ones]

Why do you hate her in the comics? if you mind me asking I think she's ok.

Her character history is extra convoluted and filled with annoying retcons. They're still happening today since her parentage was recently retconned AGAIN. Her powers are usually poorly explained and super confusing. She also embodies this combination of mental illness/super-powerful that I find over done in comics (especially with female characters). And she's responsible for some terrible things in the comics (Avengers Disassembled, House of M). She hasn't been written well in a couple of decades. At best she's a plot device and at worst she's irredeemable. IMO.

 

[TeeKay]

So her powers in the MCU are telekinesis, telepathy, mental manipulation and energy blasting?

 

[Mad Ones]

Yup. She's basically Jean Grey. Hopefully this sends the message to Fox that Turner's Jean can be just as visually interesting with a power signature. Though maybe they'll be worried about copying Marvel.

 

[universeman]

Her character history is extra convoluted and filled with annoying retcons. They're still happening today since her parentage was recently retconned AGAIN. Her powers are usually poorly explained and super confusing. She also embodies this combination of mental illness/super-powerful that I find over done in comics (especially with female characters). And she's responsible for some terrible things in the comics (Avengers Disassembled, House of M). She hasn't been written well in a couple of decades. At best she's a plot device and at worst she's irredeemable. IMO.

About her being irredeemable tell that to Steve Rogers because to him he thinks she can, when almost everyone lost hope he didn't, if anyone wants to kill her they got to go threw Steve Rogers first.

 

[Mad Ones]

Steve Rogers condemned Cyclops for what he did while possessed by the Phoenix force and then defends Wanda's crimes. He's the biggest hypocrite in the Marvel Universe and another character I much prefer in the movies than in the comics.

 

[Wine-N-Cheese]

Read something beyond event comics before you start mouthing off about characters.

 

[Mad Ones]

He comes across really poorly in Remender's Uncanny Avengers and in Hickman's Avengers. Wanda was even worse in Uncanny.

 

[Loki882]

Admittedly, I feel like both of them has been rather poorly handled in the comics over the last few years as well. Luckily, this is not the case in the films, at least so far.

 

[Mad Ones]

Admittedly, I feel like both of them has been rather poorly handled in the comics over the last few years as well. Luckily, this is not the case in the films, at least so far.

I am very happy with them in the films.

 

[Wine-N-Cheese]

He comes across really poorly in Remender's Uncanny Avengers and in Hickman's Avengers. Wanda was even worse in Uncanny.

Hickman's Avengers, with its huge cast and focus on plot, was basically an extended event. I don't disagree that Cap didn't come off well in that book, but if you've been reading comics since at least HoM, you should know by now, that characterization tends to get thrown out with event comics.

...Which brings us to Wanda. I don't blame you for thinking her unlikeable, recently, but again, it's silly to take event characterization as 'true' characterization. Certainly, Uncanny isn't an event, but Wanda's whole character in that title was built upon how she was portrayed in an event (though I think she was actually fairly sympathetic in HoM. It's Decimation that did her in).

I guess I should apologize for being snide, before. It's just very obvious that the first time you encountered these two characters was in Decimation, AvX, or some other event comic, and that's colored your subsequent readings on them (the stuff about Wanda being "the embodiment of mental illness/super-powerful" was a dead giveaway - she wasn't that until HoM, and she hasn't been that since). It's been all too common in the last few years, especially among people who almost exclusively read X-Men, and it's gotten very annoying, seeing the same disparaging and untrue things said about Wanda and Cap, over and over again.

 

[Mad Ones]

Fair enough. I see where you're coming from. It's because Marvel made Avengers vs X-men as an event where fans can pick sides and Cap and SW were two major reasons to pick the X-men's side (imo). I apologize that I've only been reading serialized comics for about 5 years now and have depended on event trades to know what is going in. Still, Decimation happened ten years ago and still nothing has been done to redeem her.

I might bother reading classic Scarlet Witch if I didn't find her history convoluted and unapproachable. I just got Marvel Unlimited so if you have an recommendations I can check them out.

I really liked Wanda in Wolverine and the X-men. It's a shame that a version of that character doesn't exist.

 

[Loki882]

Let's just say that I've disliked pretty much everything that Marvel has done with Wanda in the comics from Avengers Disassembled until the present. Except for the Young Avengers stuff, she's ok in that.

 

[Wine-N-Cheese]

Fair enough. I see where you're coming from. It's because Marvel made Avengers vs X-men as an event where fans can pick sides and Cap and SW were two major reasons to pick the X-men's side (imo). I apologize that I've only been reading serialized comics for about 5 years now and have depended on event trades to know what is going in. Still, Decimation happened ten years ago and still nothing has been done to redeem her.

That's because she can't be redeemed. Redemption arcs, in literature, is where an antagonist/villain changes into a protagonist/hero. Since Wanda is already a protagonist/hero, no redemption story will ever work - there's nothing for her to improve upon. Look at how AvX went - she reversed "no more mutants" at the end of that event, but it was an unsatisfying resolution for many people, even though it was technically redemption. Why? Because Wanda's character remained unchanged.

I think the main reason SW remains so unlikeable for some people (let's be honest, it's just X-fans), is that Decimation reaaally threw her under the bus. They kept going on and on about the horrible things Wanda had done to mutants, but, unlike HoM, failed to mention motive. This is a mistake the movie didn't make, and movie Wanda was more sympathetic, and thus, more likeable, for it.

I might bother reading classic Scarlet Witch if I didn't find her history convoluted and unapproachable. I just got Marvel Unlimited so if you have an recommendations I can check them out.

Eh, every old comic character has a convoluted backstory that's full of contradictions. It's never as bad as people (or the wiki) make it out to be though. Same for her powers - it's not that hard to get when you see it in action (though, of course, not every writer agrees on what her powers should be).

I really liked Wanda in Wolverine and the X-men. It's a shame that a version of that character doesn't exist.

Man, we disgree on everything. I found that Wanda kinda dull. But then, I found the whole cartoon kinda dull.

 

[Wine-N-Cheese]

As for recommendations, the general consensus is that Steve Englehart (Avengers Vol.1 #105-114) and Kurt Busiek (Vol.3 #0-56) were the best writers of Wanda (and the Avengers, in general), but the art and writing style for those comics is quite different to that of modern comics. Englehart's run, which was written in the 70's, will be particularly difficult to enjoy if you don't like old comics.

For specific stories, I'd go with:

* X-Men #4-7, 11 (her first appearance).
* The Celestial Madonna Saga (Vol.1 #128-135; Giant Sized Avengers #2-4).
* The Serpent Crown Saga (Vol.1 #141-144, 147-149)
* The Yesterday Quest (Vol.1 181-182, 185-187) for origins involving the Maximoffs.
* Avengers Vol.3 #10-11 for an explanation of her powers.
* Vision and Scarlet Witch mini series - equal parts fun and weird. Vol.1 #4 is where the Magneto is revealed to be her father, and she gives birth at the end of the series (proof that her children are real, dammit!)

I also have a fondness for Lee & Kirby's Kooky Quartet (Avengers #16-25), where Wanda and Pietro first joined the team. For something bit more modern (but still kinda old - it's a 90's comic), Force Works may interest you. It's only 22 issues long, and there's a storyline involving Ultron and a made up East European country called Slorenia.

 

[Mad Ones]

Admittedly I am an X-fan, but I actually loved House of M (obviously I hated the aftermath, though). It's annoying that she was used as a plot device in that story... but it's more that she's been a plot device for ten years now. And the way the Avengers treated Wanda as opposed to how they treat Cyclops after AvX was beyond stupid and hypocritical. I mean, I know, it's the writing, not the character, that sucks. But these characters are their writing.

I liked WatXM Wanda because she wasn't crazy and had a pretty solid arc of seeing through her father's lies and eventually becoming leader of Genosha. That would of have been an awesome thing to see in the comics instead of what she's been up to for the last decade.

Floating Hands Studio has my favourite Wanda gag ever about her powers.

[YT]oMggJ633JBQ[/YT]

And thanks for the recommendations. I'll check them out.

 

[Wine-N-Cheese]

I like HoM. I like everything Bendis writes...but only if I read it like I read Playboy It's beyond annoying that Wanda was a plot device in it, but I disagree that, that's happened in everything written afterwards. Certainly in AvX, but no one got any character development in that, except Cyclops.

I also disagree that there's anything unjust about the Avengers' treatment of Cyclops compared to Wanda. They've given Wanda a pass because she's expressed remorse, and they know she's good (and because certain real life stuff, like trials, make for really boring stories). Cyclops, on the other hand, hasn't apologized or openly expressed remorse for anything. He actually seems to be proud of his actions, and has said he regrets nothing. Can you see why the Avengers might not be so forgiving towards him? Also, the authorities want him arrested for trying to take over the world; they don't know/care about what Wanda did.

I liked WatXM Wanda because she wasn't crazy and had a pretty solid arc of seeing through her father's lies and eventually becoming leader of Genosha. That would of have been an awesome thing to see in the comics instead of what she's been up to for the last decade.

Then read the old stuff, if that's what you're after. And read A LOT. Unlike some characters, Wanda's character development isn't neatly contained in a single story; her arc stretches across decades. Sounds intimidating, but luckily, almost all of it is in the main Avengers title. So, if you were going to read Avengers backissues, anyway...