The Dark Knight The Rachel Dawes thread

[blackkeno]

I think it is ironic that in BB begins, one of the first reasons Bruce gives for adopting a crime fighting persona is to protect Rachel. In TDK, the Joker identifying Batman's affection for her ultimately did lead to her murder. Since Batman also went to the wrong location after being tricked by the Joker, I wonder if there will be exploration of Bruce feeling responsible for her death?

 

[Ekricket]

Even though I understand why Nolan and Co. killed her off, I was hoping this wouldn't be the case................particularly during Rachel's two biggest scenes in the film: confronting The Joker at Bruce's fundraiser for Harvey and her death scene.

That is assuming she is really dead. The Joker is a master at manipulating people and scenarios to acheive his desires in unexpected ways. Wouldn't it be truly funny if he never killed Rachel, but only made it appear to be so, and drove Harvey mad with something that wasn't true? Doesn't that sound like the criminal psychotic genius we expect from someone like the Joker? I mean a common street thug could have set the expected scenario up, but a true genius would go beyond the normal setup, use her faked death to drive Harvey mad and torment Batman, and then once he was in the depths of his madness reveal her to be still alive and torment him with the fact that he committed his crimes of insanity for nothing, for a lie. And what would that do to her? Once she knows that the man she loved went crazy and killed people in her name, and then Batman "killed?" him? Wouldn't that maybe drive her mad and cause her to take revenge on Batman?

I mean all we saw was a building that the Joker gave us the address for blow up. No body, no evidence.

A little off topic, but hey, what about that Russian ballerina? She was brought up too many times for it to be something of unimportance. Sometimes the stuff is right there, right in front of your face, and you never notice it. Just like the Joker, Nolan is a genuis too.

 

[BestGirl]

That is assuming she is really dead. The Joker is a master at manipulating people and scenarios to acheive his desires in unexpected ways. Wouldn't it be truly funny if he never killed Rachel, but only made it appear to be so, and drove Harvey mad with something that wasn't true? Doesn't that sound like the criminal psychotic genius we expect from someone like the Joker? I mean a common street thug could have set the expected scenario up, but a true genius would go beyond the normal setup, use her faked death to drive Harvey mad and torment Batman, and then once he was in the depths of his madness reveal her to be still alive and torment him with the fact that he committed his crimes of insanity for nothing, for a lie. And what would that do to her? Once she knows that the man she loved went crazy and killed people in her name, and then Batman "killed?" him? Wouldn't that maybe drive her mad and cause her to take revenge on Batman?

I mean all we saw was a building that the Joker gave us the address for blow up. No body, no evidence.

I hope Nolan doesn't go this route. Rachel and Harvey dead and Bruce alone is a fine storyline to me. Everyone's story except Batman's had a conclusion in TDK and I'd rather keep it that way and move on to new characters. Plus it would probably involve bringing back the Joker and I'd rather not do that unless it's absolutely necessary.

A little off topic, but hey, what about that Russian ballerina? She was brought up too many times for it to be something of unimportance. Sometimes the stuff is right there, right in front of your face, and you never notice it. Just like the Joker, Nolan is a genuis too.

She was really only brought up twice, and I think the whole ballerina running gag was just a way to get Bruce to ruin Harvey and Rachel's dates.

 

[TheBatman072]

It was sad to see her die.

Because she wasn't played by Katie Holmes.

I actually cared about the character.

 

[Two-Face]

Rachel is dead, we saw the building blew up.

 

[Panthro]

That is assuming she is really dead. The Joker is a master at manipulating people and scenarios to acheive his desires in unexpected ways. Wouldn't it be truly funny if he never killed Rachel, but only made it appear to be so, and drove Harvey mad with something that wasn't true? Doesn't that sound like the criminal psychotic genius we expect from someone like the Joker? I mean a common street thug could have set the expected scenario up, but a true genius would go beyond the normal setup, use her faked death to drive Harvey mad and torment Batman, and then once he was in the depths of his madness reveal her to be still alive and torment him with the fact that he committed his crimes of insanity for nothing, for a lie. And what would that do to her? Once she knows that the man she loved went crazy and killed people in her name, and then Batman "killed?" him? Wouldn't that maybe drive her mad and cause her to take revenge on Batman?

I mean all we saw was a building that the Joker gave us the address for blow up. No body, no evidence.

A little off topic, but hey, what about that Russian ballerina? She was brought up too many times for it to be something of unimportance. Sometimes the stuff is right there, right in front of your face, and you never notice it. Just like the Joker, Nolan is a genuis too.

Interesting idea, but I think if Nolan had had plans to go that route, he would have done it in TDK itself.

 

[BestGirl]

Rachel is dead, we saw the building blew up.

I think he means that she wasn't in the building that blew up. She was in a completely different warehouse but Joker rigged her phone to go off at the same time as the building so it would seem like she'd died. Like having Harvey return, I think Rachel actually being alive would be a twist that would diminish TDK's tragedy.

 

[TheBatman072]

I think he means that she wasn't in the building that blew up. She was in a completely different warehouse but Joker rigged her phone to go off at the same time as the building so it would seem like she'd died. Like having Harvey return, I think Rachel actually being alive would be a twist that would diminish TDK's tragedy.

Harvey returning wouldn't diminish much. Rachel returning definitely would though.

 

[Crook]

I think he means that she wasn't in the building that blew up. She was in a completely different warehouse but Joker rigged her phone to go off at the same time as the building so it would seem like she'd died. Like having Harvey return, I think Rachel actually being alive would be a twist that would diminish TDK's tragedy.

Except that entire theory goes out the window when we clearly see something explode behind Rachel.

 

[TheBatman072]

Except that entire theory goes out the window when we clearly see something explode behind Rachel.

Nahh. He totally could have rigged a fan right next to Rachel to start blowing her hair, with a strobe light next to it just to give the illusion of a bomb going off.

...

What? He's crazy it could totally happen.

Maybe.

 

[BestGirl]

Harvey returning wouldn't diminish much. Rachel returning definitely would though.

No, I think Harvey's return would. His story in TDK was so sad: nice guy is targeted by the Joker; loses his girlfriend; goes crazy; commits murder and them is himself killed by Batman as he's trying to shoot a kid; Batman takes the blame for his crimes. If he's alive, then he'll just end up in an asylum with the possibility he could redeem himself. Not quite so tragic.

Except that entire theory goes out the window when we clearly see something explode behind Rachel.

I hadn't remembered that. Unless there's a good explanation for the light then that theory's out the window.

 

[BlueLantern]

Just found this thread. Something I saw whilst watching the film again and noticed something.

Was Rachel adjacent to or in the building behind the one that blew up?

It did seem a bit odd the way they showed her die. Normally the flames tend to engulf the person who dies in those kinda shots. Strange stuff.

 

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