Regarding the "Jim Gordon, he's a friend. Try to be nice" line. It wasn't the line that bothered me, but the delivery. In context with the way she speaks throughout the rest of the movie, I would dump a girl long before she had a chance to dump me.
I have said it before (in this very thread) that that is one line that took me out of the movie, so I'll give you that.
Regarding her standing up to The Joker, I'm not surprised that she did, she spent the entire movie standing up to everyone, even when they werent being combative at all. I cant see how you can watch the movie and not see that she takes on most of her conversations with an "Im in charge of this" attitude.
I don't see it like that, really. And that's not too different from BB Rachel. In fact, I'd say BB Rachel was way more combative, especially with Bruce. What do you mean by combative, anyway? She's sure of herself. But she probably needs to be in order to survive as an assistant DA in a place like Gotham. Just like BB Rachel.
Regarding her knowing the case...I actually believe she says "briefs", as in court briefs...thats really just which one of us heard the wrong word, and not worth debating.
OK
I've already laid this out...but Maggies Rachel takes virtually every scene she is in and attempts to argue with those around her, or in some way manipulate them, including when her best friend gave a public speech praising her boyfriend.
But my complaint isn't that she does it, it's that that isnt how the character was established.
See below.
I will say that there are a few points in begins where it can be argued that Katies rachel acted like maggies. That being when she slapped Bruce, when she stood up to the bad guys at the end, and when she told Bruce off about it being what he does that defines him. She wants to help save Gotham, but her actions (and Katies portrayal) show a girl that is pretty sure that she isnt capable of doing it. Katie may very well be a horrible actress, but it fits the character because the character is unsure of herself when she says what she thinks should be said.
I disagree. I think BB Rachel is very self assured. Probably more than she should be, considering how f**** Gotham was during BB. She questions people, "takes charge" as you put it, of situations in which she probably shouldn't (the whole Arkham Asylum sequence) and is way more scolding of Bruce than TDK Rachel, but she means well.
So...Rachel...as established prior to the start of The Dark Knight:
She dates every boss she has in the films. Why? Because she subconsciously needs that power. She wants to be that strong, but isnt.
OK. I think you're reaching there. There could be a number of reasons why she dated Finch at some point (even though BB doesn't really clarifies this. She says "We've been through all that" but that could mean anything. That could mean he has the hots for her but she's already told him she's not interested and he should drop it).
And dating Harvey is a covenient thing for the Nolans to ultimately use against Dent and Bruce.
Has an inferiority complex. She is well established as being a talented member of the department, yet when the DA position comes available, and she seems to be the person to inheret the job, she doesnt even try to get it. She simply endorses another person. She knows that she isnt talented enough or strong willed enough to handle the job. Thats what people do when they subconsciously feel that they arent good enough for a promotion.
None of this is ever even hinted at. Like I said, she always comes off as being a rather strong woman. Obviously the Nolans wanted Dent to be the DA in TDK. As should be. They would not have made her the DA. It's just a plot thing.
Acts tough, but isnt. She slaps Bruce in the car, she stands up to the crooks at the end of Begins. However, in both cases, we all felt that the character was just going through the motions...and in fact, she is. She knows she isnt that strong. We get that in the portrayal, yet many here dismiss that as bad acting (when in fact it is showing levels of a character without even speaking).
Sure, she cries after she slaps Bruce, but that has more to do with her feelings towards him. And I always felt that it wasn't the bad acting in particular, but the fact that Homes looked way out of place in Nolan's universe. I thought she did well enough, myself.
She has very conflicted feelings for Bruce, and cant quite sort them out.
Overall, up until the moment TDK starts, the character is basically a little girl playing a grown ups game, and is well aware that is out of her league. This is even evident in Maggies campaign virals.
Well, I didn't follow the virals...Oh, and if BB Rachel looked like a little girl playing a grown up game...Maybe it's because she looked like one? The script has her being 2 years older than Bale, yet Holmes could've played his younger sister.
Now...lets start TDK:
Maggie mouths off about how well she knows the case. Well, she should know the case...shes still an ASSISTANT who does a lot of the drudge work. Whats with the attitude? If you were good enough to be DA, then you would be.
Or maybe the Nolans would rather have Gotham's White Knight be the actual DA. As should be. One other thing. This scene reminded me terribly of Katie Holmes. But without the Holmeness, if you know what I mean.
Maggie mouths off about how to treat Gordon. What was with that delivery? Gordon isnt a friend...he's one of the few allies you have on earth. Instead of the delivery conveying that, it instead talks down to harvey like a child.
I agree. The delivery was off. But you could argue that Gordon is a friend. We don't really know what has been going on between the movies. So if she says he's a friend, he's a friend.
She talked tough to Lau, but went to Harvey for backup. This is actually what katie would have done, except the delivery of the lines is not in keeping with the character. For all that tough talk, she didnt think of RICO (and I did and know virtually nothing about law).
She wasn't particularly though. Just self assured, as Rachel has always been. The RICO thing was probably the way Nolan showed that Harvey and Rachel work together and "complement each other."
When eating dinner with harvey and Bruce...she did what katie would have done...she kept her mouth shut and let the two talented people talk. This was due to the script, and Maggie had little effect over the scene. She ven became subservient to the prima ballerina, for what reasons? Its obvious why Katies character would...but its completely out of character for Maggies...this scene flies in the face of Maggies portrayal.
She kept mostly silent because it was a touchy subject for her. Maybe she didn't feel like being hypocritical (like Wayne has to be in order to protect his identity) and saying that Batman should be put in Arkham. On the one hand, she respects what Bruce is doing for the city, on the other, she more or less disapproves of Batman for personal reasons (Bruce's well being, I'd assume) and ethical reasons.
She argues with Bruce over the fact that he praised harvey. Um, he praised your boyfriend and raised millions of dollars for his next campaign. Shut up!
Sure, but there is a degree of mockery there. During the dinner scene Bruce seems to subtly mock Dent over the ballet thing ("so, you're into ballet?) and even though it's the facade Bruce doing it, you know there's some truth to it. Bruce is obviously jealous of Dent having Rachel. Dent is what Bruce wants to be, but can never be, and why he can never be with Rachel. And we know he loves Rachel.
Her answer for Harvey is "no answer". This comes off as manipulation...as does her later manipulation of Bruce. She was angry when he says hes going to turn himself in, then shes angry when he doesnt. She goes to harvey and starts complaining to him about his decision. There is a good long stretch in the movie where she does nothing but complain about not having her way, even contradicting herself in the process. This is mostly due to her delievery.
She has no answer because she loves Bruce. She can't committ to Harvey yet. Up to that point, she still believes Bruce will stop being Batman at some point (as does Bruce).
She's not angry, but concerned, when Bruce says he will turn himself in. Do you think she would be happy if her best friend went to jail? No, of course not. Plus she realizes that it's not gonna solve anything in the long run. She's actually angry at Bruce later, when he lets Dent go to jail, instead of stepping up and admitting he was The Batman. I don't see the problem here. She tries to talk Harvey out of it because again she believes nothing good will come of it (as we soon see) Again, I don't see what the big deal is. She was perfectly reasonable.
Even during the scene where her and Harvey are trapped...she takes control and starts telling Harvey what to do. Um...hows that work out for her?
Um, she wants to HELP him. She says "talk me through what's going on with you" so they can find a way out of it together.
In most cases I dont think that Rachel is written too terribly different from how Katie established the character, but the delivery of the lines completely altered the character. Katies rachel has unspoken depth, whereas Maggies Rachel has no depth, because all of her lines and actions are delivered in a very one dimensional way. Katie Holmes is not a good actress, but I feel that given the exact same script, she would have given the character the nuassance of being unsure of herself, where maggies rachel is completely sure of herself, even when she changes her opinion on a dime.
I don't find the character drastically different. With that said, BB Rachel is more of a character than TDK Rachel is.
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