The Dark Knight The Rachel Dawes thread

[cjblair]

I'm guessing thats not the audience reaction they were hoping for, but you have to agree, the vast majority of people didn't like Rachel. And if we didn't like Rachel, and the critics didn't like Rachel, why in the world would we believe the Bruce Wayne really liked Rachel, and anything about her being in his circle was important?

Same reason we have a Robin, someone to kill off without killing Bats.

 

[Franky4Fingers]

Same reason we have a Robin, someone to kill off without killing Bats.

Yeah, thats about all I can see Robin being good for as well.

 

[Sandouras]

Well I'm okay with a Bond that is just born that way, or a Batman that is just already a badass, if the film-makers can't pull off a really good, emotionally moving origin story as an alternative. I'm glad you brought up Bond because I felt that, just like in BB, the "girl that meant everything that I lost to be the hero you now know and love" angle was, unfortunately, not done well enough to be convincing, powerful or moving, and therefore might as well have been avoided. I sensed no chemistry at all between the leading heros and these "lost loves" in either film, which made it a pointless and shallow exercise. I don't know if it was casting or writing or both, but you certainly never had that heartbreaking moment of empathising for the leading man because he'll never get that girl and he has a job to do... which is what you are meant to feel... instead you want to throw these women out of a window, or just push them out of the way so some interesting action would happen.

I'm guessing thats not the audience reaction they were hoping for, but you have to agree, the vast majority of people didn't like Rachel. And if we didn't like Rachel, and the critics didn't like Rachel, why in the world would we believe the Bruce Wayne really liked Rachel, and anything about her being in his circle was important?

I hated Casino Royale and that stupid b1tch. Yeah it sucked.

In BB the romance looked like an afterthought though. It didnt serve as much purpose as the one in Bond. It was completely out of the blue. We knew they were friends and we could see Bruce getting disappointed after he saw Rachel kissing the DA, but it was out of the blue!

The romance could have been left out. Because it that hardly did contribute anything to batman. Sure he came to understand that he will be alone and stuff, but to me, the most important function of the role of rachel was being there as a friend to Bruce and secondly, providing him with life changing advice. I could care less about the romance. It was insignificant. It seemed like they couldnt resist.

As i pointed out in previous posts, to me Bruce having a friend made it more three dimensional. Sure, maybe rachel isnt necessary, but is earl taking the company public necessary? Does crane have to smuggle the toxin through the mob instead of making it himself?

You can always have a straighforward approach to this. So here's an alternative storyline.

Bruce all by himself comes to understand that he will deal with his pain by fighting crime. We could leave Alfred out of this, as bruce can take his own pain meds, make his own tea and the tumbler has an auto pilot to drive him home when he is injured. But hey, lets leave Alfred in cause he is tradition. So bruce goes around the world and trains. Then he comes back and dons the suit. No Gordon in this movie, no Flass, nothing. Crane is making Rha's toxin who is Neeson from the start of the film. No parlot tricks. We know that from the get go. Why have that twist that will confuse the audience? Also, Rha's doesnt have a plan to distract the police and capture them in the narrows. The movie is really complicated so far as it is! So Batman kicks both their asses and the police install the batsignal on their HQ to summon him. Why would i care about anything else? Its a pity Bay isnt directing because all that crap would be left out and we would have explosions all the time!

How was that?

instead you want to throw these women out of a window, or just push them out of the way so some interesting action would happen.

I'm guessing thats not the audience reaction they were hoping for, but you have to agree, the vast majority of people didn't like Rachel. And if we didn't like Rachel, and the critics didn't like Rachel, why in the world would we believe the Bruce Wayne really liked Rachel, and anything about her being in his circle was important?

People didnt like Venom's execution in SM3, so why would peter take him seriously? He should have simply gone for a cup of coffee and pay no attention to him.

Your logic is flawed. Maybe Rachel could have been done better, by casting a better actress and giving her a better dialogue. The fact of the matter is that her impact on Nolan's Bruce was great either way. I liked the idea of using such a character, but not the execution. But whether we like Rachel or not, whether we like that b1tch from Bond or not, they both played an important role. You cant write off a character from the story because you dont him. Because who drove Bruce to the trial? And so on...

Same reason we have a Robin, someone to kill off without killing Bats.

You best be trolling! Or you know nothing of batman besides Schumacher's films. In any case, focus dude!

 

[Agent of Chaos]

SHH has an exclusive short interview with Rachel Dawes, Maggie

 

[Nirvana]

Pretty good interview to read. I wish they kept Katie Holmes, and I say that for the same of continuity only. Can't really see why everyone hates Katie or say she's a terrible actress (Then again a lot of fanboys complain about a lot of female leads...LoL). But I can't really complain, Maggie is an extremely damn good actress.

 

[Laderlappen]

Really? You can't see how people can think that Katie is a terrible actress? Really?

 

[Nirvana]

Well I don't see her getting an Academy Award in her life time, but I don't think she's a terrible actress that when I see her in Begins I cringe or roll my eyes or anything like a lot of people do.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Same reason we have a Robin, someone to kill off without killing Bats.

Yes - here's hoping she bites the dust in TDK. (Though I fear that would be too good to be true...and the joy is lost with it not being Katie anyway...)

 

[BatmanFanatic]

You cant write off a character from the story because you dont him. Because who drove Bruce to the trial? And so on...

Bruce CAN drive

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Well I don't see her getting an Academy Award in her life time, but I don't think she's a terrible actress that when I see her in Begins I cringe or roll my eyes or anything like a lot of people do.

Even "okay" actresses don't get Razzie nominations. But she managed to pull it off.

 

[The Battousai]

Bruce CAN drive

Spoiler

Although he probably likes getting driven around by Alfred, anyway.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Spoiler

Although he probably likes getting driven around by Alfred, anyway.

Probably. Spoiled prat.

 

[The Battousai]

Probably. Spoiled prat.

Spoiler

Of course not! t:

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Spoiler

Of course not! t:

We should make a list. 101 reasons why Bruce Wayne is a spoiled prat. Who wants to kick it off? =)

(and it's for fun guys, don't start haten')

 

[The Battousai]

We should make a list. 101 reasons why Bruce Wayne is a spoiled prat. Who wants to kick it off? =)

(and it's for fun guys, don't start haten')

We should have it in either the Burce Wayne/Batman thread.

 

[David Rice]

Well I'm okay with a Bond that is just born that way, or a Batman that is just already a badass, if the film-makers can't pull off a really good, emotionally moving origin story as an alternative. I'm glad you brought up Bond because I felt that, just like in BB, the "girl that meant everything that I lost to be the hero you now know and love" angle was, unfortunately, not done well enough to be convincing, powerful or moving, and therefore might as well have been avoided. I sensed no chemistry at all between the leading heros and these "lost loves" in either film, which made it a pointless and shallow exercise. I don't know if it was casting or writing or both, but you certainly never had that heartbreaking moment of empathising for the leading man because he'll never get that girl and he has a job to do... which is what you are meant to feel... instead you want to throw these women out of a window, or just push them out of the way so some interesting action would happen.

I'm guessing thats not the audience reaction they were hoping for, but you have to agree, the vast majority of people didn't like Rachel. And if we didn't like Rachel, and the critics didn't like Rachel, why in the world would we believe the Bruce Wayne really liked Rachel, and anything about her being in his circle was important?

I have to disagree with you about Casino Royale, but you're right about Rachel.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

I have to disagree with you about Casino Royale, but you're right about Rachel.

You thought there was real chemistry in Casino Royale? I haven't heard that from anyone before... well at least it worked for you!

 

[BatmanFanatic]

We should have it in either the Burce Wayne/Batman thread.

Alright I'll move the post

 

[The Joker_1000]

Any new pictures of Maggie as Rachel or of Maggie period?

 

[StylishHokie21]

That's her at the Sho-West I believe.

 

[Watson]

Even "okay" actresses don't get Razzie nominations. But she managed to pull it off.

Razzie's can reflect just a crap movie, though maybe not in the case of BB. Halle Berry won one for Catwoman, deservedly, but otherwise she's a damn fine actress.

 

[I7eIVIoNBoY]

damn fine actress as in psysical attractiveness or acting ability?

 

[TheVileOne]

The only time I thought a great lost love scenario worked in a Batman film was Mask of the Phantasm.

People generally didn't buy Katie Holmes as a DA. But that's OK because Maggie Gyllenhaal is playing her this time. I still don't really care for the character. She was obligatory in the first movie. Hopefully she will come off better this time around. I personally would find it more interesting for a love interest to embrace Bruce's alter-ego. That's kind of why I wanted to see Talia in these movies.

Since Talia's not exactly a normal woman herself, in a twisted way she compliments Bruce Wayne/Batman. But then you could get into the whole Catwoman thing or whatever. But that's just kind of why I like Talia.

 

[David Rice]

You thought there was real chemistry in Casino Royale? I haven't heard that from anyone before... well at least it worked for you!

Wow! Everyone I know loved that film.

 

[granturismohalo]

Agree with Vileone that the only Batman lovey dovey arc that worked so good was Mask of Phantasm. All superhero actresses were forgettable and I agree with the majority that women in this type of movies are easily picked on. Scarlett Jo was picked on by fans and critics on Nolan's The Prestige. Superhero flicks are a man's world so the guys rock while the females are paper thin roles. Watching Theron on Aeon Flux,Jolie in Tombraider and Halle's Catwoman makes me wonna take back their Oscars. There's no cure for this whining disease in the fanboys-dom.
Some whine that Katie looks young and some whine that Maggie looks like an old hag. With Maggie's addition it didnt really end the whining but its more intense and the death well wishes for Rachel Dawes tripled.
Katie is like Natalie Portman and Leo DiCaprio that they dont age but they are good actors. The upper gain of Maggie is a tuned up script by Nolan to appease whiners on Rachel Dawes and Maggie looks older.
Marriage and motherhood gave Katie an older look perfect for TDK. And hotter. The fact remains though that TDK is the movie of 2008. The hype is too much add the death of Ledger mixing nostalgia and curiosity even among nondiehards. With Katie's name attach to the TDK label the hype among the people and media will be sicker. Her bodyguards aren't enough anymore these days but she is escorted by L.A.P.D. The whole Harv-Bruce and Rachel love triangle is soooooo Peter Parker-Harry & MJ predictable.