Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. The RATINGS Thread - Part 1

[famicommander]

They need to follow the Berlanti model with Flash/Arrow/Supergirl/Legends. Actual super hero shows starring A (Flash) or B (Arrow, Supergirl, Legends) level characters.

Daredevil is awesome and I can't wait for season two but there are advantages and disadvantages to the Netflix model. A TV series usually means larger episode orders, which can be a good thing or a bad thing. And the filming schedule of a TV show allows more flexibilty within the run of the season. With a weekly TV show they will start airing episodes before they're done filming the season, giving them a chance to respond to fan/critical feedback and see what is working and what isn't. Longer seasons allow you to tell more stories and flesh out more side characters. On the other hand, a shorter episode order usually means a more focused narrative.

I'd like to see the Netflix series continue but also have an A or B level hero on weekly television.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

They need to follow the Berlanti model with Flash/Arrow/Supergirl/Legends. Actual super hero shows starring A (Flash) or B (Arrow, Supergirl, Legends) level characters.

Daredevil is awesome and I can't wait for season two but there are advantages and disadvantages to the Netflix model. A TV series usually means larger episode orders, which can be a good thing or a bad thing. And the filming schedule of a TV show allows more flexibilty within the run of the season. With a weekly TV show they will start airing episodes before they're done filming the season, giving them a chance to respond to fan/critical feedback and see what is working and what isn't. Longer seasons allow you to tell more stories and flesh out more side characters. On the other hand, a shorter episode order usually means a more focused narrative.

I'd like to see the Netflix series continue but also have an A or B level hero on weekly television.

Good points.

In the MCU "it's all connected", so I'd be surprised if Marvel broke out a serious A-lister for network television. Netflix is a completely different animal with the production value, writing and acting talent, so it's much more in line with the cinematic MCU. Charlie Cox and Vinny D would fit right in with RDJ and Chris Evans. Even lesser known properties like Moon Knight, Cloak and Dagger and the Runaways scream Netflix to me. That doesn't mean they couldn't work on ABC (have to draw the line somewhere), I just think the potential would be wasted. Ms. Marvel (Kamala Khan) could work well on ABC, she's become popular in the last couple years and is a really fun character. She would certainly draw media attention.

Obviously for DC it's separate, so putting characters like Green Arrow and the Flash on the CW isn't really an issue. Amell won't be sharing screen time with Affleck.

 

[Docker2.0]

I don't see why Marvel doesn't do a Blade tv show. From my understanding, it did decent on Spike TV, even their highest rated show, but the budget was higher than expected due to Spike's restraint. I can honestly see AoS budget being waaayy higher than Blade's. Plus Blade is a household name now with 3 movies and a tv series. Why bury him when he's out there? You can also slowly introduce him into the MCU by having him fight other things besides vampires. Which is why I thought it would be a good idea to have him on SHIELD or at least guest star on there.

 

[BoredGuy]

I wouldn't mind Blade or someone with less flashy powers getting a series.

Marvel has probably just been hesitant to put any top tier characters in the shows because they want a consistency on the special effects, and know there's no way to pull off movie level effects on a network TV budget. That's why you will never see Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Vision, or Scarlet Witch, (or anyone with similarly visual powers) on an ABC show. They didn't want to be in DC's position of having a Flash with OK effects in the show and a Flash with Triple-A level FX in the movies because for Marvel, everything is connected. DC can pull it off because "different universe".

That said, I don't think Marvel's TV dept. has much to learn from DC. AoS has better acting and visual style than Flash while Flash has a better plot and a higher level superhero character, so if they've learned anything, it's just to embrace the comic roots more... and AoS is just better than Arrow in every way at this point, imo. And Daredevil?? Not even a contest

 

[redlion2]

I don't see why Marvel doesn't do a Blade tv show. From my understanding, it did decent on Spike TV, even their highest rated show, but the budget was higher than expected due to Spike's restraint. I can honestly see AoS budget being waaayy higher than Blade's. Plus Blade is a household name now with 3 movies and a tv series. Why bury him when he's out there? You can also slowly introduce him into the MCU by having him fight other things besides vampires. Which is why I thought it would be a good idea to have him on SHIELD or at least guest star on there.

Marvel may very well do that, once Dr. Strange has been introduced next year. This will open up the supernatural side of the MCU, and we might get to see Blade, Ghost Rider and other supernaturals.

 

[Zarex]

They need to follow the Berlanti model with Flash/Arrow/Supergirl/Legends. Actual super hero shows starring A (Flash) or B (Arrow, Supergirl, Legends) level characters.

Daredevil is awesome and I can't wait for season two but there are advantages and disadvantages to the Netflix model. A TV series usually means larger episode orders, which can be a good thing or a bad thing. And the filming schedule of a TV show allows more flexibilty within the run of the season. With a weekly TV show they will start airing episodes before they're done filming the season, giving them a chance to respond to fan/critical feedback and see what is working and what isn't. Longer seasons allow you to tell more stories and flesh out more side characters. On the other hand, a shorter episode order usually means a more focused narrative.

I'd like to see the Netflix series continue but also have an A or B level hero on weekly television.

Marvel doesn't really have any A or B level heroes left. Most of the big names remaining will be appearing at the multiplex, and the A level street heroes are coming to Netflix.

Marvel considered going the Berlanti model with del Toros proposed Hulk program, but I think it was wise that they decided to keep the TV and movie universes connected. And as we've seen with the MCU, letter grades for characters can be quite fluid.

 

[regnak]

Marvel doesn't really have any A or B level heroes left. Most of the big names remaining will be appearing at the multiplex, and the A level street heroes are coming to Netflix.

Marvel considered going the Berlanti model with del Toros proposed Hulk program, but I think it was wise that they decided to keep the TV and movie universes connected. And as we've seen with the MCU, letter grades for characters can be quite fluid.

If they don't do an Ant Man sequel they could do a 1970's-1980's Ant Man and the Wasp.

 

[Zarex]

If they don't do an Ant Man sequel they could do a 1970's-1980's Ant Man and the Wasp.

I was hoping to see Hank and Janet co-star in a post-reversion 60s era FF film. I don't know if the shrinking effects would be quite up to snuff on Network TV.

I don't want to see pre-accident Stark or Banner, or pre-transformation Rogers. But "Tales of Asgard" featuring high school age versions of our favorite Asgardians could work. Might be pricey, though. A Black Widow prequel could work as well, but would be a better fit on Netflix.

 

[KingCheops]

The shows on ABC have an important niche to fill. AoS is somewhat more family friendly (barring a certain vivisection scene) and is on a station that everyone has access to. Marvel wants a show that can keep everyone connected to the MCU. The Netflix shows are not family friendly and are on a pay service which a lot of people don't have. Both streams have a place and both are successful.

Sure AoS dropped a lot since it's S1 premiere but 5 million live and 7 L+3 is pretty darn good.

 

[marcvader]

Moon Knight, nuff said.

 

[iambranded]

i still dont see why they havent executed a nice POWER PACK series on Disney XD or something and tie it in to other movies....even series like AoS and netflix programing

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

I'd love a Moon Knight series, on Netflix. A great series on that platform could do for the character what Gunn did for Guardians. A-List, B-List, as Zarex said, it's fluid.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

i still dont see why they havent executed a nice POWER PACK series on Disney XD or something and tie it in to other movies....even series like AoS and netflix programing

Marvel's had a terrible brief history with XD.

 

[fixxxer]

I second the sentiment that Marvel has absolutely nothing to learn from DC on the television side. I'll get back to the "shared universe" part in a bit, but even setting that aside, I find the DC shows to be rubbish for the most part.

Arrow's recent season was straight unwatchable. I'm dreading the upcoming season because I hate abandoning shows after such a time investment. I'll make a decision after watching, maybe, a couple of episodes. And while Flash is kinda fun, it is an extraordinarily dumb show. Constantine was disastrous and was rightly canned. Gotham, IMO, is the worst of the bunch. Even thinking about that show offends my sensibilities. I hear good/decent things about iZombie, but I'm not sure the Veronica Mars-type stuff is for me, personally. And I'm not even sure if that counts as a DC show.

Supergirl, from the promos, looks horrible. As does Legends Of Tomorrow. Good grief. Maybe those two will surprise me, but I somehow doubt it.

And getting back to the "shared universe" thing... relegating their shows to some irrelevant pocket universes (oh, excuuuse me... multiverse *rolling my eyes so hard they're doing a 360*) basically says that they don't trust their creative teams to put out quality content. And it also says that their braintrust lacks the confidence to coordinate their content in a coherent way

AOS (post-early season 1), Agent Carter and especially Daredevil are an order of magnitude better in terms of quality.

 

[famicommander]

AOS and Carter may as well be in their own "pocket universes" because hardly anything that happens on those shows in reflected in the films.

As far as quality goes, that's pretty subjective but in my book the only Marvel/DC show worse than Carter and SHIELD is Gotham. And that includes the mediocre Constantine and Powers, and even the dreaded Arrow season 3.

Flash, Daredevil, and iZombie are in an entirely different league.

 

[fixxxer]

^

Agreed on the subjective part... one man's meat and all that stuff. So, I guess continuing to debate that would be pointless.

But I completely disagree on the "pocket universe" point. The MCU isn't (contrary to popular belief) a television show where one episode and/or movie has to pick and follow through on the narrative threads set up by its predecessor and/or predecessors. The MCU is just that... a universe.

A universe vast enough to coherently house a whole slew of stories, points of view, characters and narratives. Would I have loved to see Mack (or Fitz or someone) on the helicarrier in Sokovia attempting to juice the engines in an MCU nod to "Scotty we need more power"? Absolutely. Alas, it wasn't to be. But what they have accomplished in terms of coordination, scale and ingenuity is monumental as it is.

 

[Rocinante]

Marvel's had a terrible brief history with XD.

I don't know why exactly either, Disney seems to have been able to balance family friendly and gritty with Rebels. I feel like the animation division has been purposely directed to make kiddy fodder affair to draw more adult attention to their live action series and movies.

We've seen what Marvel's animation Team can do through Disney XD with EMH. I have a feeling the entire thing was a rebranding to purposely make the animated stuff appeal more to legit children.

 

[Docker2.0]

i still dont see why they havent executed a nice POWER PACK series on Disney XD or something and tie it in to other movies....even series like AoS and netflix programing

That's what I don't get. You'd think Power Pack, Cloak and Dagger and F4 would be the Marvel properties that Disney wanted more than anything else. They are tailor made for Disney.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

I don't know why exactly either, Disney seems to have been able to balance family friendly and gritty with Rebels. I feel like the animation division has been purposely directed to make kiddy fodder affair to draw more adult attention to their live action series and movies.

We've seen what Marvel's animation Team can do through Disney XD with EMH. I have a feeling the entire thing was a rebranding to purposely make the animated stuff appeal more to legit children.

I think that's it, although I have no idea why dumbing down the content is a good strategy. It's really taken a nose dive.

 

[Heretic]

I just don't see the correlation between season 1 of AoS and future projects. For me it's more about concept and execution. They could bring out a "big gun" and still have mediocre ratings based on poor execution. On the other hand, they could take a flyer on a lesser-known property and hit pay dirt with great execution.. If it's a spinoff from AoS, then yes, it will likely underwhelm in the ratings, but a fresh show by different showrunners shouldn't be tarnished because of 12 + shows from season 1.

Although I'd rather see Marvel go exclusively with Netflix in the future, I realize that's unrealistic as Disney owns ABC and will want to cash in on potential hits from Marvel's character library.

Because AGENT Carter was seen as a prequel to AGENTS of SHIELD. Marvel's Most Wanted will ABSOLUTELY be seen as an Agents of SHIELD spin-off. The other rumored show is a sitcom about non-super-powered people cleaning up the messes from battles...which will be seen by the public as yet another "normal person" show in a universe of superheroes.

There are no other heavily rumored ABC shows to discuss at the moment.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Because AGENT Carter was seen as a prequel to AGENTS of SHIELD. Marvel's Most Wanted will ABSOLUTELY be seen as an Agents of SHIELD spin-off. The other rumored show is a sitcom about non-super-powered people cleaning up the messes from battles...which will be seen by the public as yet another "normal person" show in a universe of superheroes.

There are no other heavily rumored ABC shows to discuss at the moment.

We're in agreement about a lot of stuff except the point where any non-SHIELD spinoff will struggle because of perception related to season 1...I could care less if ABC ever does a real superhero show because I've seen the Netflix model and its not even close. I'm perfectly content with the current set-up. Normal peeps on ABC and superheroes on Netflix. If they don't get a ratings juggernaut because of that then so be it, they can still do great shows. The folks at ABC seem pretty content, otherwise they wouldn't have announced the Most Wanted spinoff from AoS's average ratings. Enjoy the ride, the show's gotten real good.

 

[Heretic]

We're in agreement about a lot of stuff except the point where any non-SHIELD spinoff will struggle because of perception related to season 1...I could care less if ABC ever does a real superhero show because I've seen the Netflix model and its not even close. I'm perfectly content with the current set-up. Normal peeps on ABC and superheroes on Netflix. If they don't get a ratings juggernaut because of that then so be it, they can still do great shows. The folks at ABC seem pretty content, otherwise they wouldn't have announced the Most Wanted spinoff from AoS's average ratings. Enjoy the ride, the show's gotten real good.

But we aren't talking about great shows...we're talking about ratings.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

But we aren't talking about great shows...we're talking about ratings.

Great ratings don't guarantee a great show either. It's nice to have both, but if I had to choose I'd take the great show. If it's cancelled it's cancelled, but I'm not going to obsess about it because I can't control other peoples TV appetites.

 

[Heretic]

Great ratings don't guarantee a great show either. It's nice to have both, but if I had to choose I'd take the great show. If it's cancelled it's cancelled, but I'm not going to obsess about it because I can't control other peoples TV appetites.

But you're in a ratings thread...so we're discussing ratings.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

But you're in a ratings thread...so we're discussing ratings.

I've discussed a lot more then that.