The Dark Knight The Realism Debate thread

[Mr. Socko]

TOTALLY agree, thank you for stating that. gotham is not a real city, but the marvel characters are always living in real city's, mainly in NYC.

Yes. The Marvel films can't drastically change style as they're in real cities. Batman's city of Gotham can be drastically different in every series because it's a fictional place. It doesn't exist so there's no state that it must be like. Thus each film director and each comic book artist will all have a different style. Nolan's is gritty, realistic, and dark. Not dark like "Gothic Burton dark" but brooding dark.

So Nolan's Gotham is no more correct or incorrect than Burton's, or dare I say it, even Schumacher's. Yes, everyone will have a different opinion on who's is best and who did better. We all have our preferences but saying "Nolan's Gotham is too realistic looking so it's bad" isn't a real argument as there isn't much of a standard for comparison. If anything it would be the restrictions that come with it.

I've enjoyed all of the Gotham designs we've had, even Schumacher's to a degree.

 

[TheLongestDay]

dont get me wrong-as ive stated before i do like the Burton films and about 3 seconds of the shumacher ones,but we've had those,and personally i prefer Nolans take on Batman.

There are some great set peices and design in the Burton films,but for me its all about the tone-and the tone for Batman that i personally prefer is a more serious one,but i understand that alot of people dont.

Either way i agree with Mr.Socko in that in TDK Nolan will take his visual style a step further

 

[AgentGraves!]

watch past Nolan films...we have seen the Nolan batman film in begins..just as we have seen the burton batman film in BR...i don't really see this getting any more "nolan-ized" than it has been.
Maybe the only change to come is the fighting...this film being on a bigger scale than BB we could no longer be subjected to the fights in the crooks POV...this is a larger battle for our bat so thus i would exspect that the fighting be taken in WS format...to get the whole action of it rather than subjecting us to how it would be like to fight batman...after bb we know what its like...thus in closing Nolan's eye could not possibly get anymore "artistic" than it is at present. Im tellin' you go way way back to "THE FOLLOWING" then go watch "THE PRESTIGE" and you can see that it's slight changes...and nothing more...and thats over the drive of about 10years or more!!!! come on folks we have nothing to fear about "NOLAN's NEXT BATMAN FILM = TIM BURTON's BATMAN RETURNS"
there is NO need for fear!

in the words of a dieing Thomas Wayne "Don't be afraid" .....


and you can take that to the bank....


only to get the very bank that you are in knocked over by a slue of crooks in clown masks....

 

[Gianakin_]

Don't be too sure about that, there is nothing to take to the bank yet.

 

[TheLongestDay]

the fight scenes were the only thing i was a tad dissapointed with,but on multiple viewings they hold up for me and you notice more.

Like how Bruce breaks one of the prisoners legs at the beginning-totally missed that at the cinema,but they got that into a pg film by shooting it the way they did

 

[AgentGraves!]

how so?

I truly can not see nolan getting all "gothic" on us..with this next one..if anything it's going to look like BB's only maybe a different hue in stead of the orange-brown hue...look i've been a sole fan of Nolan's since the FOLLOWING came out i've been following him for years and it was always a thought in the back of my mind that he should do a batman film because he would do him some justice..and he's had...he gets batman more so than any other person to get...this is something that only happens once in a while out in hollywood...nolan is to batman as donner is to superman...and going on how nolan's eye had "matured" since THE FOLLOWING i can say with much convidence that things will not get as out of hand as they have with burton's second go-a-round with the bat...deposit it!

 

[AgentGraves!]

the fight scenes were the only thing i was a tad dissapointed with,but on multiple viewings they hold up for me and you notice more.

Like how Bruce breaks one of the prisoners legs at the beginning-totally missed that at the cinema,but they got that into a pg film by shooting it the way they did

indeed TLD...thats what i dug about this film..or one of the many things...and it only gets better when you slow-mo-it...

 

[TheLongestDay]

its one of the few films that i can watch over and over again and keep noticing new things-thats attention to detail and great craftsmanship on Nolans part

 

[AgentGraves!]

yeah like how there are more comicbook reffs than one had though before!!!!
trust me do some research...i wanna say that there is something like 87% of the film has Comic reffs!!! maybe more!

 

[Gianakin_]

how so?

I didn't say he might get gothic, but to say there will be no changes in some sectors... even Bale says that he loves what they're doing because it's very much different from BB. Nolan said the same thing, and stated it as the reason he came back.
All I'm saying is, you shouldn't start "taking things to the bank" yet.

 

[AgentGraves!]

I didn't say he might get gothic, but to say there will be no changes in some sectors... even Bale says that he loves what they're doing because it's very much different from BB. Nolan said the same thing, and stated it as the reason he came back.
All I'm saying is, you shouldn't start "taking things to the bank" yet.

but i must..because...prehaps what they mean by different is that this film is going to feel less of a comic book film...and more like a "real" film only with a comic character in it...due to there take on it...due to how they are tackling it this time around with something that did as well as BB one should suspect much change with it. one would even say that the take on the joker is something that is far from what others had expected thus this is much different from BB...Im just saying that people are upset and and afraid that this film is going to be such a departure from the batman cannon /mythos. I wanna say that the reason that the two are excited about this film is because its the relized film. begins was just the outlines...just the blueprints and this film is the finalized building...a building that is a bank that i shall more than willing open up a bank account!

 

[Gianakin_]

But that doesn't necessarily mean that TDK will be more realistci. It can easily go the exact opposite way. I mean, the main thing in TDK is probably that by its end the freaks will have been unleashed in Gotham.

 

[Mr. Socko]

but i must..because...prehaps what they mean by different is that this film is going to feel less of a comic book film...and more like a "real" film only with a comic character in it...due to there take on it...due to how they are tackling it this time around with something that did as well as BB one should suspect much change with it. one would even say that the take on the joker is something that is far from what others had expected thus this is much different from BB...Im just saying that people are upset and and afraid that this film is going to be such a departure from the batman cannon /mythos. I wanna say that the reason that the two are excited about this film is because its the relized film. begins was just the outlines...just the blueprints and this film is the finalized building...a building that is a bank that i shall more than willing open up a bank account!

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what Begins did. IMO, the realism level in Begins was fine. No need to strain it any further. They should keep it on the same level or retreat back a bit. But go further with realism? Certainly not.

 

[AgentGraves!]

But that doesn't necessarily mean that TDK will be more realistci. It can easily go the exact opposite way. I mean, the main thing in TDK is probably that by its end the freaks will have been unleashed in Gotham.

so then you are in agreement with me that there is no need to fear for how this film comes out?

 

[Gianakin_]

I never disagreed that I have faith in TDK. I only say that we can't be sure of where Nolan will take things. HOW he takes them there, I have not much fear. But WHERE, I can't be sure, and I think neither can you.

 

[AgentGraves!]

sure no one can be sure where he takes it...but i can imagine that it wont be anything like what is suggested....

 

[The Dark Guybrush]

why would Nolan and Co. purposefully go out of there way to bring a sense of realism to Batman films, only to strip it back to camp in the sequel?

the answer- they wouldn't. read interviews from the Begins hype era.
Nolan said himself, along with Bale, that the only reason they became involved with this franchise was due to WB wanting something fresh & tangible, and Nolan had a vision for our favorite hero that suited him to a T.

the ante will be upped. that's about it.

 

[AgentGraves!]

why would Nolan and Co. purposefully go out of there way to bring a sense of realism to Batman films, only to strip it back to camp in the sequel?

the answer- they wouldn't. read interviews from the Begins hype era.
Nolan said himself, along with Bale, that the only reason they became involved with this franchise was due to WB wanting something fresh & tangible, and Nolan had a vision for our favorite hero that suited him to a T.

the ante will be upped. that's about it.

There you go! someone on the same page...rather than some one in the same book!

 

[Gianakin_]

why would Nolan and Co. purposefully go out of there way to bring a sense of realism to Batman films, only to strip it back to camp in the sequel?

But fantasy doesn't necessarily mean camp. It's not impossible to think that they grounded Gotham in "reality" in BB, so as to make a greater contrast when in TDk when the freaks take over.

 

[Doc Samson]

But that doesn't necessarily mean that TDK will be more realistci. It can easily go the exact opposite way. I mean, the main thing in TDK is probably that by its end the freaks will have been unleashed in Gotham.

Exactly. In terms of Goth, I think its all relative. When I mentioned before that I thought the later sequels in this series would start to emulate, at least in look, to Burton's Gotham I didn't mean in the literal sense as far as actual architecture. In relation to the atmosphere & fantasy level, I think it will though. I mean to a certain extent it has to, the Joker's a mass murdering homicidal clown, no matter how "real" you try to play it, the essence of the character is complete insanity. If they are following closely with the Long Halloween as they have mentioned it being a strong influence, then that is the whole basis of the story. Essentially, just the presence of Batman throws Gotham further down the depths of criminal mischief, more so than if he never existed, which creates the ultimate dichotomy of the character that I loved since I was a kid. "Can Batman ever truly rescue Gotham?" is the question he undeniably must answer to, and the truth has always been no, because he himself helped create the crime he so desperately wanted to stop. And the supervillains are just the visual representation of that idea, which means they have to be just as theatric and over-the-top as Nolan's universe will allow them to be...

 

[terry78]

Point blank, if by some odd occurence Nolan decided to bring Clayface into the films, would you have a problem with it? Honestly.

 

[AgentGraves!]

the whole point of this reboot is to explore what it would be like if a fantasy character lived in the real world

 

[AgentGraves!]

no i wouldn't because nolan could handle him hell he handled cloneing well

 

[Gianakin_]

Point blank, if by some odd occurence Nolan decided to bring Clayface into the films, would you have a problem with it? Honestly.

No I wouldn't. I'm of the philosophy "Do it anyway you want to, as long as the result is good".

 

[TheLongestDay]

Point blank, if by some odd occurence Nolan decided to bring Clayface into the films, would you have a problem with it? Honestly.

the only problem i have is getting the poo monster from dogma outta my head whenever the idea of clayface comes up