The Reboot Joker

Aside from the fact that you don't know how centric either guy actually will be, you are right...adding joker would be overkill, and if there's any character that Im gods honest baffled in regards to potential casting, it would be this one.

I'm judging this based on the fact that the Man of Steel cast is returning plus the inclusion of Lex Luthor vs. Batman's only cast so far being Alfred, sounds to me like it's a Superman-centric story that features Batman and Wonder Woman (something like Azzarello's run of MOS:LL or even B/S: Public Enemies, where the entire story takes place in Metropolis and Batman's included without taking anything away from the story).
 
I'm reading that Larry Fong debunked the rumor of the Joker, abd that the card in the wall was him just showing that he was able to throw a playing card really hard into a wall.
 
Aside from the fact that you don't know how centric either guy actually will be, you are right...adding joker would be overkill, and if there's any character that Im gods honest baffled in regards to potential casting, it would be this one.
It wouldn't be any more overkill than when Superman met Batman in the animated series the Superman/Batman Adventures (that episode was titled "Worlds Finest").
 
It wouldn't be any more overkill than when Superman met Batman in the animated series the Superman/Batman Adventures (that episode was titled "Worlds Finest").

You're comparing two different things. World's Finest had a clear focus on the Joker/Lex Luthor. It's more simplified in that regard since the Timm cartoon didn't focus on much/had already developed things prior to the World's Finest meet-up. With BvS, you're looking at developing loose ends from Man of Steel, as well as developing Diana and Bruce's reasons for coming out of the shadow, developing Lex Luthor's reasons for disliking Superman, Clark's time with the Daily Planet after X or so months, and the list goes on. In that regard, it's difficult to see where the Joker fits in all of this without being in a Batman-centric story.
 
They are going to let Joker have a big screen rest until such time as we get a new solo Batman film.
 
You're comparing two different things. World's Finest had a clear focus on the Joker/Lex Luthor. It's more simplified in that regard since the Timm cartoon didn't focus on much/had already developed things prior to the World's Finest meet-up. With BvS, you're looking at developing loose ends from Man of Steel, as well as developing Diana and Bruce's reasons for coming out of the shadow, developing Lex Luthor's reasons for disliking Superman, Clark's time with the Daily Planet after X or so months, and the list goes on. In that regard, it's difficult to see where the Joker fits in all of this without being in a Batman-centric story.

This.
 
You're comparing two different things. World's Finest had a clear focus on the Joker/Lex Luthor. It's more simplified in that regard since the Timm cartoon didn't focus on much/had already developed things prior to the World's Finest meet-up. With BvS, you're looking at developing loose ends from Man of Steel, as well as developing Diana and Bruce's reasons for coming out of the shadow, developing Lex Luthor's reasons for disliking Superman, Clark's time with the Daily Planet after X or so months, and the list goes on. In that regard, it's difficult to see where the Joker fits in all of this without being in a Batman-centric story.

Hasn't it been assumed Lex Luthor will be using a "hired gun" in this film? Whether it be Metall or some other villain? Just use Joker and there you have it.

Also, BvS will have a runtime far longer than that of the Dini/Timm film.
 
Hasn't it been assumed Lex Luthor will be using a "hired gun" in this film? Whether it be Metall or some other villain? Just use Joker and there you have it.

Also, BvS will have a runtime far longer than that of the Dini/Timm film.

Wouldnt Joker be too much of a wild card to be a hired gun by Luthor? Surely he must have some hesitations against hiring a raving madman like Joker?
 
Wouldnt Joker be too much of a wild card to be a hired gun by Luthor? Surely he must have some hesitations against hiring a raving madman like Joker?

Not if Joker's the only possibility. Who else is smart enough to figure out it's Luthor who wants Superman dead and actually insane enough to try?
 
You're comparing two different things. World's Finest had a clear focus on the Joker/Lex Luthor. It's more simplified in that regard since the Timm cartoon didn't focus on much/had already developed things prior to the World's Finest meet-up. With BvS, you're looking at developing loose ends from Man of Steel, as well as developing Diana and Bruce's reasons for coming out of the shadow, developing Lex Luthor's reasons for disliking Superman, Clark's time with the Daily Planet after X or so months, and the list goes on. In that regard, it's difficult to see where the Joker fits in all of this without being in a Batman-centric story.

They are not different things. They are stories. The only difference is the medium. Furthermore there are enough data points out there for everyone to know who the Joker is. He shouldn't need to be developed any more than Luthor would need to be developed in this film. I am sure that (just like in "Worlds Finest") Lex Luthor would want to get Superman out of the way and the Joker is the only one crazy enough to want to kill both Batman and Superman.
 
Not if Joker's the only possibility. Who else is smart enough to figure out it's Luthor who wants Superman dead and actually insane enough to try?

I could see Deathstroke or Deadshot taking a shot at Supes if Lex payed enough, and Metallo could be a possibility as well. Never liked the idea of Joker being a hired gun.
 
Wouldnt Joker be too much of a wild card to be a hired gun by Luthor? Surely he must have some hesitations against hiring a raving madman like Joker?

Joker has actually been a hired hitter in a few different stories. Said stories are not my favorites though just for that reason. Joker is a solo villain, that's what makes Harley Quinn so entertaining, she wants to be a duo so bad but he won't have it. But I digress.
 
Not if Joker's the only possibility. Who else is smart enough to figure out it's Luthor who wants Superman dead and actually insane enough to try?

I dunno, i just cant picture Lex working with The Joker i guess. Unless we get another Hackman/Spacey Luthor with goofy sidekicks. Metallo would be more suited as a "hired gun" IMO.
 
They are not different things. They are stories. The only difference is the medium. Furthermore there are enough data points out there for everyone to know who the Joker is. He shouldn't need to be developed any more than Luthor would need to be developed in this film. I am sure that (just like in "Worlds Finest") Lex Luthor would want to get Superman out of the way and the Joker is the only one crazy enough to want to kill both Batman and Superman.

They are almost assured to be different stories, hence what I mean by different. Also, my argument isn't about the Joker being developed (since TDK showed you can have an origins-less Joker). My point was that the inclusion of Joker is incoherent in relation to the rest of the plot points/parts that make up Batman v. Superman. It makes no sense for what the plot wants to accomplish (which sounds like your basic, fight then make-up and bind together against a common enemy story a la the first half of the Avengers).

The problem with assuming that Lex would want to get Superman out of the way similarly to WF, is that how do you do so without Kryptonite? (seeing as how Superman in WF was in actual danger of dying). The Joker is nowhere near physically inclined enough to take on Superman so it'd be ridiculous to write a battle without an equalizing force similar to WF's. Furthermore, if the Joker doesn't need to be developed any more than Luthor...then you're essentially asking for a partial origin story...I mean, this is the audience's first time at seeing Snyder's Lex Luthor, so we still have to get to know his character, his personality, his motivations etc.
 
No to Joker. Especially played by whoever that it that was rumoured.

But then again, if they wanted to pull out all the stops to make this movie extremely successful, then why the hell not.
 
They are almost assured to be different stories, hence what I mean by different. Also, my argument isn't about the Joker being developed (since TDK showed you can have an origins-less Joker). My point was that the inclusion of Joker is incoherent in relation to the rest of the plot points/parts that make up Batman v. Superman. It makes no sense for what the plot wants to accomplish (which sounds like your basic, fight then make-up and bind together against a common enemy story a la the first half of the Avengers).

The problem with assuming that Lex would want to get Superman out of the way similarly to WF, is that how do you do so without Kryptonite? (seeing as how Superman in WF was in actual danger of dying). The Joker is nowhere near physically inclined enough to take on Superman so it'd be ridiculous to write a battle without an equalizing force similar to WF's. Furthermore, if the Joker doesn't need to be developed any more than Luthor...then you're essentially asking for a partial origin story...I mean, this is the audience's first time at seeing Snyder's Lex Luthor, so we still have to get to know his character, his personality, his motivations etc.

We'll probably get kryptonite. I seem to remember reading on the forums back before man of steel that an interview question about kryptonite got the answer "it's not in the movie but it is being 'researched'" that told me that Snyder has had kryptonite planed for the sequel.

If it were up to me though I'd stay as far away from that plot device as possible. Might as well have supes turn the world backwards to reverse time too imho.
I wanna see luthor play the caring friend to Bruce and the righteous politician to Clark, when in reality it's a ploy to bring down costumed Heros all together. Think NBCs Hannibal.
 
I could see Deathstroke or Deadshot taking a shot at Supes if Lex payed enough, and Metallo could be a possibility as well. Never liked the idea of Joker being a hired gun.

That's your personal preference though.

The post I responded was saying Joker couldn't fit in. Whereas all you've done is exchange his character for someone fulfilling the same role.

On a different note- Did you not like The Dark Knight then?

I dunno, i just cant picture Lex working with The Joker i guess. Unless we get another Hackman/Spacey Luthor with goofy sidekicks. Metallo would be more suited as a "hired gun" IMO.

Same question- Not a fan of The Dark Knight?
 
I don't want to see "hired gun" Joker again. It an work, but we've already seen it.

And it will end up the same way as TDK. Joker ends up uncontrollable and Lex will regret ever getting involved with him.
 
We there are really three questions.

Will Joker be in it? I'd say no but then again, I didn't think Cyborg, Diana, and Batman would be in the Superman sequel ,so anything is possible.

Should Joker be in it? I'd say there are more than enough characters but as been pointed out, if WB wanted to assure bums in seats, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to pull out all the stops and throw one of the most icon villains period into this thing despite how many fanboys wouldn't like it.

Who should play Joker? I would assume WB would want to go someone of the caliber of Javier Bardem, or another big name ,and I tend to doubt WB would give Snyder the go ahead to cast Mullvey in the role. If he chose him, he would probably be overruled anyway.
 
I don't want to see "hired gun" Joker again. It an work, but we've already seen it.

And it will end up the same way as TDK. Joker ends up uncontrollable and Lex will regret ever getting involved with him.

Agreed, which is why I don't think Luthor is this dumb enough to hire the Joker, when he can do things on his own.
 
I can't say who I really want as Joker in a future film but what if BvS is a phenominal hit, and even after JLA WB decides to go to the WF well again? THAT could be the right time to introduce a new Joker and have a LEX/JOKER alliance, depending on what we learn about Ben's Batman and hhis history.
 
Lex doesn't need Joker. At all.

He only payed Joker in the animated movie due to him having a huge chunk of Kryptonite...and even then, the alliance was bizarre.
 
Not if Joker's the only possibility. Who else is smart enough to figure out it's Luthor who wants Superman dead and actually insane enough to try?

I dunno, i just cant picture Lex working with The Joker i guess. Unless we get another Hackman/Spacey Luthor with goofy sidekicks. Metallo would be more suited as a "hired gun" IMO.

Same question- Not a fan of The Dark Knight?

No no, i am. But who says we would get a Dark Knight Joker? If he's more like the comics and cartoons he would be more like a madman. And i think that this Luthor would be smarter than to team up with someone like that.

Agreed, which is why I don't think Luthor is this dumb enough to hire the Joker, when he can do things on his own.

That is basically what i meant.
 

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