The Return of Bruce Wayne

[Bat Attack]

I'll pass. I hate stories like this- especially in Batman. Time travel and all of this silly stuff....no. I'll pass.

Batman is about reality and magical realism...not simple magic.

-R

Right on.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

"Magic" and "time travel" were part of the Batman lore from the beginning.

 

[Drz]

I'll pass. I hate stories like this- especially in Batman. Time travel and all of this silly stuff....no. I'll pass.

Batman is about reality and magical realism...not simple magic.

-R

How many Batman comics have you actual read?

 

[Watchman]

How many Batman comics have you actual read?

A selective reading where Batman exist in a world without aliens, people from thousands of years in the future, imps from the 5th dimension, and people who can turn into play doh.

Anyway Pirate Batman> anybody who just wants Batman to punch some mafioso in the face for the billionth time.

 

[Motown Marvel]

I'll pass. I hate stories like this- especially in Batman. Time travel and all of this silly stuff....no. I'll pass.

Batman is about reality and magical realism...not simple magic.

-R

i totally get what your saying. and a lot of times i'd generally agree with this, in regards to my preference of batman stories. but, when stories with a more imaginative reality can be pulled off well, they can be very very enjoyable and tons of fun. and if anyone pulls that off, its grant morrison.

 

[batpawn]

i totally get what your saying. and a lot of times i'd generally agree with this, in regards to my preference of batman stories. but, when stories with a more imaginative reality can be pulled off well, they can be very very enjoyable and tons of fun. and if anyone pulls that off, its grant morrison.

That's totally the way I see it. Would Judd Winnick decide to do such a story, I might be facepalming it as well. But as far as Grant Morrison's, in my opinion, terrific run goes, I'm pretty sure it's going to be quite an enjoyable trip.

 

[Robin91939]

How many Batman comics have you actual read?

A selective reading where Batman exist in a world without aliens, people from thousands of years in the future, imps from the 5th dimension, and people who can turn into play doh.

Anyway Pirate Batman> anybody who just wants Batman to punch some mafioso in the face for the billionth time.

[FONT=&quot]I am not a fan of those kind of stories, in general. Even if they do not include Batman.

For the record I have read a LOT of Batman stories, and time travel and magic have not been part of Batman since the beginning. Only in the 1950s after the Comics Code was passed because the book Seduction of the Innocent had people thinking comics with realistic violence were making kids delinquent. (I worked for a major comic book publisher...I know a little about comics and a lot about Batman).

Batman simply works best in a realistic setting....or at the very least a heightened reality.

Batman as a pirate or as a caveman doesn't appeal to my sensibilities at all, no matter who is writing....it's just silly and isn't Batman.

For example:

Ra's Al Ghul: unrealistic villain, but in the context of the world, the Lazarus pits are well established and not so much mystic in nature anymore as they are pure chemistry. Even if in our world it is a paper thin explanation, in that universe it is science.

Time travel: unrealistic and very hard, pretty much impossible to present in a way that isn't out of context with the world.

Batman doesn't fight otherworldly villains on a regular basis for a reason. He doesn't fight mad lab accidents gone wrong with animal motifs on a regular basis for a reason.

Otherworldly villains are Superman's thing....why? 'Cause he's an otherworldly hero...it fits in that context.

Lab accidents gone wrong with animal motifs are Spider-man's stick...why? He's a lab accident gone wrong with a .....I don't really have to finish this do I?

Yeah, Bats has mad scientist:
Mr. Freeze, Kirk Langstrom, Poison Ivy, Hugo Strange

But not many alien villains that are solely his.

He does however have real men and women, with no powers who rely only on wit, guile and some technology. Why? Because that's who Batman is. That's why his main villains:
Joker
Two-Face
Black Mask
Catwoman
Penguin
Riddler
Bane
Jarvis Tetch

are real men and women who had "one bad day" motivate them to be what they are.


This is how Batman works best. He is a crime fighter, true and blue. Not a time traveler, or a interplanetary protector.

Just because he has done these things (and felt completely out of place or out of character while doing so) doesn't mean he should have done these things.

I love it, by the way.

Because the people that are fine with silly things like Bat-mite, time travel, etc being in continuity, because they have "been there since the beginning" (but really haven't ) are probably the same people who claim Robin shouldn't be in the films. He's been there since the beginning (1940). He wasn't introduced because of the Comics Code as a lot of these sillier elements were. A kid in tights inspired by the Dark Knight, after witnessing the murder of his own parents--that's unrealistic. Batman is vaporized and presumed dead, while really writhing through time and space and then has to fight his way through history, thousands of years, to come back (without aging a day)...that's fine.


(*Note: Basil Karlo (Clayface) wasn't a man who could turn into "play-doh" in the beginning. He was a guy who wore the mask of a character he played in a horror film and committed murders and crimes of revenge. In the 1950's after the Code was established, Matt Hagen (Clayface II) was introduced and had shapeshifting abilities....so I ask-- exactly how many Batman stories have you read?)


-R
[/FONT]

 

[Drz]

Eh we could go this forever and from your post i can see that you prefer the old school Batman before all the craziness, while i personally enjoy accepting more of the crazy things that happened thru Batman's life.

But i'd do like to point out that Poison Ivy is a very very powerful foe to Batman in a supervillain kind of way. She can project herself THROUGH plants, lay seige to buildings by sending roots through their foundations. Break bridges, destroy roads with a snap of a finger almost!

I also would believe the Lazarus Pit is way more magical than just pure chemistry. It heals all the wounds and makes you younger. It also can resurrect the dead but with a very very fatal consquence that Grayson is soon about to learn in 2010. @_@

[FONT=&quot]A kid in tights inspired by the Dark Knight, after witnessing the murder of his own parents--that's unrealistic[/FONT]

Just incase some anti-Robin guy or "Robin isnt realistic!!!" guy is reading this post, i'd like to point out something quote sweet from Kevin Smith's Batman: The Widening Gyre.

"But I can read the signs-- in another year or two, Tim'll probably go Nightwing and his departure will bring an end to the Robin era. I'm done dragging children into this life. I used to think it was therapeutic for them-- the way it'd been for me. I was kidding myself. In the future, if I ever feel the need to partner up again, I'll do so with an already well-trained ADULT." - Batman

Remember even tho Bruce is a fictional character, even Batman does mistakes such as recruiting Jason Todd instead of taking the poor lad to therapy. =/ I have to say i do love Tim and Richard alot. Tim because he WANTED to help Batman in fightning crime, and Dick because he's just so well developed from Batman's sidekick to a Teen Titans member. Damian Wayne is pretty kick-ass too with the new dynamic switching places on whos the grimdark badass and whos the joker of the group.

 

[Robin91939]

Eh we could go this forever and from your post i can see that you prefer the old school Batman before all the craziness, while i personally enjoy accepting more of the crazy things that happened thru Batman's life.

But i'd do like to point out that Poison Ivy is a very very powerful foe to Batman in a supervillain kind of way. She can project herself THROUGH plants, lay seige to buildings by sending roots through their foundations. Break bridges, destroy roads with a snap of a finger almost!

I also would believe the Lazarus Pit is way more magical than just pure chemistry. It heals all the wounds and makes you younger. It also can resurrect the dead but with a very very fatal consquence that Grayson is soon about to learn in 2010. @_@

Just incase some anti-Robin guy or "Robin isnt realistic!!!" guy is reading this post, i'd like to point out something quote sweet from Kevin Smith's Batman: The Widening Gyre.

"But I can read the signs-- in another year or two, Tim'll probably go Nightwing and his departure will bring an end to the Robin era. I'm done dragging children into this life. I used to think it was therapeutic for them-- the way it'd been for me. I was kidding myself. In the future, if I ever feel the need to partner up again, I'll do so with an already well-trained ADULT." - Batman

Remember even tho Bruce is a fictional character, even Batman does mistakes such as recruiting Jason Todd instead of taking the poor lad to therapy. =/ I have to say i do love Tim and Richard alot. Tim because he WANTED to help Batman in fightning crime, and Dick because he's just so well developed from Batman's sidekick to a Teen Titans member. Damian Wayne is pretty kick-ass too with the new dynamic switching places on whos the grimdark badass and whos the joker of the group.

I can agree to disagree. And Poison Ivy is one of my least favorite rogues...though I do like her at times (in some incarnations). It's a taste issue, clearly.

As far as Robin, the Widening Gyre has been pretty cool thus far. And while it has Bruce reflect on his decisions to have a Robin, it also shows the many, many times that it paid to have Robin around.

Great story thus far, by the way.

-R

 

[K.B.]

My only problem with this is that it seems to much like the current Captain America reborn storyline. They are both stuck in time and working their way back to the present.

 

[Venom 1988]

My only problem with this is that it seems to much like the current Captain America reborn storyline. They are both stuck in time and working their way back to the present.

Again...when the first issue of Cap Reborn came out, people were saying how similar his situation was to Bruces...

 

[Indrid Cold]

I'll pass. I hate stories like this- especially in Batman. Time travel and all of this silly stuff....no. I'll pass.

Batman is about reality and magical realism...not simple magic.

-R

Exactly, if I wanted my Batman jumping through time then I'd put a Batsuit on Scott Bakula. As far as Dick laying down the cowl as soon as Bruce gets back (whenever he does) it shouldn't be that simple. I'm sure these adventures Bruce is on will change his line of thinking of how he portrays his version of Batman, but Dick should show him what the true meaning of Batman really is. In short Bruce should be on the sidelines a bit after he returns, and take notes from Dick's awesome job as the bat, and apply it to his inevitable return.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

I'm glad Bruce will back where he belongs.

Wow, I can start to purchase the Batbooks again.

 

[theMan-Bat]

"Magic" and "time travel" were part of the Batman lore from the beginning.

Magic was indeed a part of Batman lore from the beginning starting with the appearance of the magical/supernatural vampire the Monk in Detective #31 and 32 (1939). But time travel was not. Time travel didn't appear in a Batman comic until 1944 in Batman #24 written by Joe Samachson.

 

[Mr. Earle]

As said earlier, too soon. Yes, I want Bruce back, but its just too damn early. Well, at least we can get an explaination sooner than later as to how the hell does an Omega Beam send a person into the abyss of time while leaving their dead body in the present?

I agree, its too early. Just as we got used to Dickbat they re bringing Bruce back! He'll be back anyway, so why not stall it a bit?
As for the Omega beams. Well this wasnt the Omega Beams, it was the Omega Sanction, a punishment inflicted by Darkseid upon his enemies. There is a Mr Miracle mini series written by Morrison a few years ago that introduces and explains the Omega Sanction. Basically Darkseid traps your soul into some kind of purgatory while your body is left behind destroyed. When and if you escape, your body comes back to normal. In this case, both Batman's soul and body were sent to the past (maybe because of Superman used the wishing machine for a good ending at the end of FC - who knows?) while a burned up clone of his was set there to fool the other heroes. (Darkseid was making bat-clones in FC)

I never had a doubt that Bruce Wayne wasn't returning, this is simply another rehash of KnightQuest/Prodigal Son for 2010.

It is, but its so much better!

Damain won't go. At least I doutb it. To be honest, I look at Tim as being out of Bruce's shadow. Has been for a while. Like when Dick became Nightwing, Tim has been his own hero for quite some time. If we ever had a Robin, that Robin should be the right hand man to Batman. Tim has grown far from being Bat's 2nd. But Damian? He still has a looooong time before he can be his own...anything, in the Bat family. Let Damian stay Robin, and keep Tim his own (well, own in a techinal sense, since technically, the Red Robin ID was used by others before Tim).

Agreed. Besides, we had already seen the Dick-Tim dynamic, so there wouldnt be much of a difference (which was the aim of all these events) just because Dick wears the batsuit. Damian brings the necessary change and he is a great character to boot! I just love how Batman is now lighter and Robin is the dark one.

I'm glad Bruce will back where he belongs.

Wow, I can start to purchase the Batbooks again.

You re missing out man!

 

[Mr. Earle]

I am torn on the one hand I wanted Bruce in the omega sanction stories from Morrison at some point but not this soon. DC editorial should've waited at least 3 years but if Morrison just can't contain himself it is what it is at least I'm guaranteed one more year of Batman's sons running around as Batman & Robin.

Ditto.

I think when Bruce does return to Gotham he should spend at least a year in real time as just Bruce Wayne, there's a novel thought. Have him undo any further damage Hush makes to his name and image as well as have him play in the cave to Batman & Robin Batman Beyond style. I don't know but there are a lot of possibilities and as sales have indicated a great portion of the fanbase is fine without Bruce.

I am really worried about Hush. I mean, that sneaky bastard is doing so much damage!
Anyway, Morrison took Batman to Thogal, that ritual that was meant to give him back his psychological balance and focus that he had lost over the years, getting more insane because of bad writing. So his Batman was a lot more balanced because of it, but at the same time, that GPD/military project, the Black Glove and the Omega Sanction must have destroyed him. People are now speculating as to how that affected him. Has he killed one of his two personas? So i expect him to take a break before he retakes the mantle. I just wish that after all these psychological trials, Batman wont be as crazy as before. I liked Morrison's more balanced version.

21 years of reading Batman comics this is the freshest yet more natural progression I've yet seen in the books. Robin becomes Batman, like that's why Robin exists in the first place.

I agree 100%. Batman is all about Bruce, and you know that they will never replace him, so we ll never see Dick exercise his birthright. This was a nice way of giving us Dickbat, without killing Bruce. And a nice break from the standard status to freshen up the franchise and raise sales.

So a little more of that is welcome especially now that they have Batman: Earth One to appeal to the Nolan fans & rookie readers and Confidential and other original mini's featuring Bruce as Bats. A lot of people also still got 70 years worth of Bruce Wayne Batman stories to look into so they shouldn't even be complaining.

Exactly. Even if the 70 years of same ol', same ol' arent enough, there are still books with Bruce getting published, so i dont see the problem.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Btw, if you dont like the current turn of events, the Joker sympathizes.

Spoiler

 

[Cain]

I am really worried about Hush. I mean, that sneaky bastard is doing so much damage!

Anyway, Morrison took Batman to Thogal, that ritual that was meant to give him back his psychological balance and focus that he had lost over the years, getting more insane because of bad writing. So his Batman was a lot more balanced because of it, but at the same time, that GPD/military project, the Black Glove and the Omega Sanction must have destroyed him. People are now speculating as to how that affected him. Has he killed one of his two personas? So i expect him to take a break before he retakes the mantle. I just wish that after all these psychological trials, Batman wont be as crazy as before. I liked Morrison's more balanced version.

I think the experiences in the omega sanction will have him reevaluate his approach to not just what being Batman is but also what being human is since he's gonna witness so many different time periods. I think he will return a little unstable on the Batman front and not be Batman right away and he will learn from Dick of all people how to once more be the man that he once was since Dick is preserving the legacy of Batman that Bruce left behind and not the one that he is recreating through the omega sanction.

Either way I feel Morrison will also explore what it means for him to become Bruce Wayne again which is cool and I'm really looking forward to so I doubt he'd make him the insane bat jerk even when he does eventually make him Batman again because like many of us Morrison isn't very fond of that. I don't think there's anything to worry about on that front.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

Magic was indeed a part of Batman lore from the beginning starting with the appearance of the magical/supernatural vampire the Monk in Detective #31 and 32 (1939). But time travel was not. Time travel didn't appear in a Batman comic until 1944 in Batman #24 written by Joe Samachson.

1944 is pretty much the beginning. And there is also the story where Robin dreams to be in a fantasy world -- so realism is not something that applies to Batman that much. And that's my point.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

For the record I have read a LOT of Batman stories, and time travel and magic have not been part of Batman since the beginning. Only in the 1950s after the Comics Code was passed because the book Seduction of the Innocent had people thinking comics with realistic violence were making kids delinquent. (I worked for a major comic book publisher...I know a little about comics and a lot about Batman).

that'S just not true. What about the Monk, Robin's Dreamland adventure, Carter Nichols... all well before the Comics Code. "Realistic violence" was never in the Batman comics, I am sorry.

And BTW, the alien stories and all this stuff from the Silver Age were more inspired by Superman's success with those stories than the Comics Code.

 

[Dirt Like Me]

Either way I feel Morrison will also explore what it means for him to become Bruce Wayne again which is cool and I'm really looking forward to so I doubt he'd make him the insane bat jerk even when he does eventually make him Batman again because like many of us Morrison isn't very fond of that. I don't think there's anything to worry about on that front.

What excites me about Bruce coming back (aside from the obvious--that he's Batman), is that the Bat-world has changed so much since he went away. Damian is Robin; Tim is Red Robin; there's a new Batgirl; Batwoman is coming into her own (although I hope Bruce stays out of her way--those stories don't need any help right now); there's new villains like Professor Pyg and Flamingo; Tony Daniel has brought back some old villains like the Falcone family, Black Mask, and Reaper. And there have been big changes to the DCU at large, like Blackest Night.

Bruce missed all of that. And when he comes back--for the first time in a long time--Batman will actually be behind the curve when it comes to Gotham. The scenarios he's prepped for might not be possible in this new order of things, so he will actually have to learn on the fly again, just like when he started out. I'm looking forward to seeing an experienced, older Batman making sense of all of this. It certainly won't be the same-old same-old, and I can't wait to see it happen.

 

[theMan-Bat]

1944 is pretty much the beginning.

That's five years after the beginning.

And there is also the story where Robin dreams to be in a fantasy world

Yes, that ones from 1940, but that was just Robin's dream after reading a book.

-- so realism is not something that applies to Batman that much. And that's my point.

Realism applies to the beginning of Batman lore established by the creators to an extent and some fantasy also applies (spooky vampires the Monk and Dala, Monster Men inspired by the Frankenstein Monster, etc.), but time travel didn't appear in a Batman comic until 1944 in Batman #24 written by Joe Samachson. From the beginning Bill Finger and Bob Kane always had Batman in his own time period, and often in a dark, atmospheric noir or Gothic setting, which was appropriate for the character. Batman as a caveman or a pirate with a beard is just silly gimmicks to try to boost sales. I wont be buying it. Instead I'm buying Batman: The Unseen featuring Batman as Batman fighting crime in Gotham City going back to his roots as a detective.

 

[Posioned Bat]

The costumes on the first post look like something out of a bad fanfic.

 

[Drz]

 

[batpawn]

The costumes on the first post look like something out of a bad fanfic.

yeah, because fans are famous for being so creative that they tend to write stories about bruce traveling through time and taking on corrupted neanderthals, 'constantly'.

If you excuse me, I have to read "fan fiction that reads like a copy and paste version of christopher nolan's batman films #587"... man, you've got to love those damn fine fan fictions.

@DRZ
jesus christ on a stick, that's powerful! totally beautiful. I love Andy Kuberts art, even more so in black & white. It looks even more dynamic that way. That being said, is it just me, or does Andy's art look like a more 'lifelike' version of Scott McDaniel? Just for the record, I love McDaniel! I just get this vibe everytime I look at his art.