The Temple of Doomed Relationships

[SuperMike335!!]

And I thought ME and SuperMike were supposed to be arch enemies!

Not me. Nor any of my relatives/friends, who are all smart. Some of them are even gorgeous.

But we're all too intelligent to fall for that sctick, if used straight-up.

Even so, I'll admit that there are SOME PUA techniques that you can use and learn from. SuperMike said my bf was using PUA techniques and I ed since if any of you met him, he'd seem like the biggest walking doormat ever. But he doesn't smother me, he never calls (well, he never calls anybody ) he basically tells me what his plans are and then asks me if I'm up for them. Now, I don't think he's gaming me by doing that, those are just natural behaviors for him. But they're very general tenets of PUA.


Funny, I'm a stutterer too and I've done some programs for it. My first time, there was a guy who was probably 5'8", overweight, balding, wore glasses, and had a SEVERE stutter. It was worse than mine.

And who was with him at the program, all four days of it? His tall gorgeous fiancee. He told us he wanted to work on his speaking so he could give a toast at his wedding.

For what it's worth, he was the bravest and the most go-getter of all of us, always the first to try something or put himself out there. I wasn't all that surprised that he was able to bag such a nice beautiful woman. In a lot of cases, guys have it easy since we women forgive A LOT if you have an awesome personality. It's much rarer to find a homely woman with a handsome man.

Why Anita, did you do some research on game theory?

 

[Anita18]

Why Anita, did you do some research on game theory?

Everything I learned about PUA, I learned from you! t:

 

[Erzengel]

For what it's worth, he was the bravest and the most go-getter of all of us, always the first to try something or put himself out there. I wasn't all that surprised that he was able to bag such a nice beautiful woman. In a lot of cases, guys have it easy since we women forgive A LOT if you have an awesome personality. It's much rarer to find a homely woman with a handsome man.

Personality goes a long way.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

If that's the case they sure were not a PUA. They may have wanted to be, but bad results means they are doing it wrong. If you are doing it wrong, you are no PUA.

I do know some that have a LOT of success at what they do.

Incidently I never called myself a PUA, and won't, because that is not what I did, or ever was my goal.

Everyone I know would say they have *a lot* of sex, or "success". Success is a fluid concept. If someone goes out on a date and that person has a good time I'd consider them successful even if nothing physical happened.

 

[Dark Raven]

And I thought ME and SuperMike were supposed to be arch enemies!


Not me. Nor any of my relatives/friends, who are all smart. Some of them are even gorgeous.

But we're all too intelligent to fall for that sctick, if used straight-up.

Even so, I'll admit that there are SOME PUA techniques that you can use and learn from. SuperMike said my bf was using PUA techniques and I ed since if any of you met him, he'd seem like the biggest walking doormat ever. But he doesn't smother me, he never calls (well, he never calls anybody ) he basically tells me what his plans are and then asks me if I'm up for them. Now, I don't think he's gaming me by doing that, those are just natural behaviors for him. But they're very general tenets of PUA.

I once watched a David DeAngelo video on picking up women. I can't remember if it was him or one of his guest speakers who had several people from the audience come up to the front. Anyway, the speaker was giving tips on how to "charm" women by suddenly giving this cold reading of the woman shortly after introducing himself.

He advocated that those volunteers tried it, and they had to role play their efforts.

I have to say it looked absolutely ridiculous. It kind of went like this:

Man: "That was a great game of [eg basketball/sport ] last night don't you think?"

Woman: [some comment]

Man: "By the way, I'm so-and-so."

Woman: "Hi, I'm ...."

Man: "You know, you have a face that reveals X personality. I see it in your eyes... etc."

It was corny as that, and jumping from one thing to another as abruptly and as unnaturally as that, with no lead in or proper link between any of these methods. And the speaker was advocating this and trying to get the volunteers to work on this method.

Now tell me that any woman suddenly hearing a man doing this and jumping from one thing to another isn't going to think he's just trying to pick her up and sounding like he's just rehearsing a routine.

I can't see any smart woman really going for that, certainly the way it was presented and advocated there.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Yeah, still not getting it. This isn't She's All That so you really can't morph someone into something they're not. You certainly cannot teach attraction. I know what makes me "attractive". I'm good looking, I say funny, clever things, and therefore girls find me attractive. Attraction isn't a smart bomb though. It's not a laser guided missile. You might hit your target, but there is going to be a lot of collateral damage. So attraction simply isn't enough of a skill. It isn't really a skill at all.

"Game" is not "social skills", it's a perversion of social skills. Yeah, social skills can get you laid, they can also get you a promotion, and sometimes they even land you in hot water. The purpose of having them though is good unto themselves.

A lot of what you say is fairly insulting. Just because I haven't banged my friend Valerie doesn't mean I failed that relationship. There are a lot of reasons we never formally hooked up and frankly, hindsight being 20/20, she's one of my closer friends because we did not. When you meet someone you just immediately start spitting game? Why? That seems to me like a compulsion. So trade the compulsion of being shy and being a doormat, with the compulsion of asking girls to f***. That never addresses the core problem does it? You certainly may land a lot of fish doing that, but you'll miss the ones that count.

I think I agree with this here.

I understand that confidence is attractive, and I also understand why, and I'd also like to say that for the most part, I am confident in myself (not that I don't have insecurities of my own - I do - but everyone has them on some level. I don't sit around moping about them)

I'd also like to believe that I'm fairly attractive. I feel I have a good sense of fashion, and I know how to dress well and presentably, and I do have women compliment my appearance fairly regularly. So I think I've got -something- going on.

I do have problems attracting women, and I still don't know totally why. But I also don't believe in going all out with that "game" and "PUA" stuff. I means, SuperMike made a post a few pages back about feet positioning and crap like that, and it's like, okay, any girl that's going to make her decision on me because I had my feet at a 32 degree angle instead of a 45 degree angle... no, I'm not doing that crap.

And as far as female friends go - I agree. I have been, and currently am friends with a lot of different females, and I don't feel like that was some kind of "failure". It's not that I "settled" for being "just friends", it's that I developed good friendships with these women that weren't based on romance or physical attraction.

It is possible.

 

[Erzengel]

Are these real "friendships" though, if you had a party would these women show up? Do you hang out with them?

 

[Dark Raven]

I think I agree with this here.

I understand that confidence is attractive, and I also understand why, and I'd also like to say that for the most part, I am confident in myself (not that I don't have insecurities of my own - I do - but everyone has them on some level. I don't sit around moping about them)

I'd also like to believe that I'm fairly attractive. I feel I have a good sense of fashion, and I know how to dress well and presentably, and I do have women compliment my appearance fairly regularly. So I think I've got -something- going on.

I do have problems attracting women, and I still don't know totally why. But I also don't believe in going all out with that "game" and "PUA" stuff. I means, SuperMike made a post a few pages back about feet positioning and crap like that, and it's like, okay, any girl that's going to make her decision on me because I had my feet at a 32 degree angle instead of a 45 degree angle... no, I'm not doing that crap.

I think that if a woman finds a man physically and emotionally attractive, then they can forgive a lot. The man can do a lot wrong, and they'll still overlook that and be attracted to them, even if their feet aren't positioned exactly right, haven't said exactly the right things, given the right signals etc. On the other hand, if a woman simply isn't interested in a man, the man can do everything right and by the book, but the woman will still not bite. I'm pretty sure the same goes for men towards women.

And as far as female friends go - I agree. I have been, and currently am friends with a lot of different females, and I don't feel like that was some kind of "failure". It's not that I "settled" for being "just friends", it's that I developed good friendships with these women that weren't based on romance or physical attraction.

It is possible.

I don't consider these failures either. Some of my female friends I have no desire to be anything more than friends, and realise that even if something had started, it would've probably ended too, because we would've been incompatible on a relationship level. As friends, however, we can get on well.

It is actually hard to find people you can truly connect with and go beyond more than just physical attraction.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Erz - the girls I am specifically talking about with those friendships, yes, absolutely. And yes it is a very select group of girls, and not just any girl that I hang out with at school between classes or shows.

There's only a couple girls - at least in my current situation - that I consider legitimate friends that I can talk to and hang out with regularly, and trust that it's a mutual thing. Most girls im recognizing are just that - girls, not women - and not worth the emotional investment romantically or platonically. They're kinda just there. Im actually learning to pick up these "*******" traits, not to be some kind of pua, but because im finally learning how to not invest in people who dont deserve my investment. Part of whats been bothering me lately is the realization that certain people aren't worth that investment when i thought they were. People that at one moment, tell me how good of a friend i am to them and how close i am to them, and then the next moment completely shun me when they find someone else that pays attention to them. So im learning to recognize which people deserve my investment and which people don't.

Dark Raven - I agree. If a girl rejects me because of my foot positioning, or an insignificant use of words, then she wasn't gonna accept me anyways, so no needs to worry about it. i figure if that's what it boiled down to, she's really rejecting me because i wasn't attractive enough or my personality not appealing enough - legitimate reasons. I refuse to believe that I've ever been rejected cuz i stood wrong or accidentally misspoke. And anyone i gotta walk that kind of tight rope for isn't worth my time anyways.

 

[Axl Van Sixx]

Not me. Nor any of my relatives/friends, who are all smart. Some of them are even gorgeous.

But we're all too intelligent to fall for that sctick, if used straight-up.

Even so, I'll admit that there are SOME PUA techniques that you can use and learn from. SuperMike said my bf was using PUA techniques and I ed since if any of you met him, he'd seem like the biggest walking doormat ever. But he doesn't smother me, he never calls (well, he never calls anybody ) he basically tells me what his plans are and then asks me if I'm up for them. Now, I don't think he's gaming me by doing that, those are just natural behaviors for him. But they're very general tenets of PUA.

Most women react this way. "Not ME! I'm way too smart to fall for any of that stupid PUA stuff."

Sure, if the guy does it in a horrible, obvious way, then you'll laugh it off. But the best pick-up artists (they even have a special acronym, mPUA - "master pick-up artist") are better than that. They've learned how to talk naturally and make up stuff on the spot rather than using canned material.

I've read plenty of stories of PUAs who successfully hooked up with women where the conversation started with her telling him how ridiculous this PUA stuff was and how she would never fall for any of it.

I once watched a David DeAngelo video on picking up women. I can't remember if it was him or one of his guest speakers who had several people from the audience come up to the front. Anyway, the speaker was giving tips on how to "charm" women by suddenly giving this cold reading of the woman shortly after introducing himself.

He advocated that those volunteers tried it, and they had to role play their efforts.

I have to say it looked absolutely ridiculous. It kind of went like this:

Man: "That was a great game of [eg basketball/sport ] last night don't you think?"

Woman: [some comment]

Man: "By the way, I'm so-and-so."

Woman: "Hi, I'm ...."

Man: "You know, you have a face that reveals X personality. I see it in your eyes... etc."

It was corny as that, and jumping from one thing to another as abruptly and as unnaturally as that, with no lead in or proper link between any of these methods. And the speaker was advocating this and trying to get the volunteers to work on this method.

Now tell me that any woman suddenly hearing a man doing this and jumping from one thing to another isn't going to think he's just trying to pick her up and sounding like he's just rehearsing a routine.

I can't see any smart woman really going for that, certainly the way it was presented and advocated there.

Again, it's hard to use a bunch of awkward seduction students as evidence of how the material works. You need to observe people who know what they're doing. The big danger, I find, is that it's easy to come off weird if you've got a non-stop barrage of material, to to the extent that people might be wondering, "is this guy some kind of weird comedian?"

Personally, although I read The Game by Neil Strauss, the most valuable advice I ever got out of the whole seduction community was from David DeAngelo: the "Cocky/Funny" approach. I adopted that strategy and it definitely helped me get laid. What I like about it is that you don't have to remember specific lines or anything; it's just a general attitude.

What's more, that attitude works. If you act cocky, you're acting like you're the prize, not the woman. People tend to want what they can't have, so it makes you seem more attractive. This works well when combined with negs, which illustrate to a woman that you're not impressed or intimidated by her looks, like most guys are - and any guy who wants to be attractive to women needs to stand out from the pack.

The "funny" part is more obvious, but it just reminds you not to take anything too seriously - to provide a lighthearted, entertaining interaction, which will be more attractive than the guy who approaches a woman nervously and takes any sign of rejection personally. The "game" metaphor is very helpful because any guy who takes approaching women too seriously, and lets rejection affect him, won't last too long.

One last thought:

The seduction community is constantly changing. Stuff that was once cutting-edge becomes tired and predictable once every guy starts using it. For example, one of the most cliched "pick-up lines" of all time is "what's your sign?" Nowadays, any guy who tried to use this line would be laughed out of the room. However, in the 1960s and 70s, when it originated, it was a way for a guy to prove he was deep, in-tune with his spiritual side in the Age of Aquarius, or whatever. In short, it was cutting-edge.

The same thing is happening with all this PUA stuff. Already, the other day I saw that Mystery has a new book out, where he updates his methods because since the publication of The Game all the old techniques have become stale and ineffective through overuse. The discipline is constantly evolving.

It's interesting to observe the different approaches. Watch Mystery live in the field. He has the whole "peacocking" thing going on, so he dresses like a *****e in the Dr. Seuss hat, eyeliner and painted nails. He's trying to pick up club girls. At the same time, he undeniably piques their interest.

[YT]-9rmevR-NeI[/YT]

Now, for a change, look at these guys from Simple Pickup. I only heard about them recently, but apparently they represent the new breed. If you look at them, they're just ordinary guys, maybe even a little nerdy. But they just go in there and start saying all kinds of stuff (in this case, lines from Fresh Prince of Bel-Air). Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Yet it clearly seems more natural and endearing than Mystery's elaborate formula.

[YT]QYU0KCq6T5I&feature=relmfu[/YT]

Not saying one is better than the other, just different methods.

 

[terry78]

Even the smartest woman can fall prey to a dude who knows how to play.

 

[Anita18]

Most women react this way. "Not ME! I'm way too smart to fall for any of that stupid PUA stuff."

Sure, if the guy does it in a horrible, obvious way, then you'll laugh it off. But the best pick-up artists (they even have a special acronym, mPUA - "master pick-up artist") are better than that. They've learned how to talk naturally and make up stuff on the spot rather than using canned material.

I've read plenty of stories of PUAs who successfully hooked up with women where the conversation started with her telling him how ridiculous this PUA stuff was and how she would never fall for any of it.

I'm just talking from personal experience. No PUA has ever successfully picked me up (nor any of my family/friends for that matter), but I go for the shy awkward guys.

 

[WillardNation]

And how's that whole thing been working out for you?

Well the town I live in isn't that big so I don't have sex with as many different women as I would like.

 

[Dark Raven]

Most women react this way. "Not ME! I'm way too smart to fall for any of that stupid PUA stuff."

Sure, if the guy does it in a horrible, obvious way, then you'll laugh it off. But the best pick-up artists (they even have a special acronym, mPUA - "master pick-up artist") are better than that. They've learned how to talk naturally and make up stuff on the spot rather than using canned material.

I've read plenty of stories of PUAs who successfully hooked up with women where the conversation started with her telling him how ridiculous this PUA stuff was and how she would never fall for any of it.



Again, it's hard to use a bunch of awkward seduction students as evidence of how the material works. You need to observe people who know what they're doing. The big danger, I find, is that it's easy to come off weird if you've got a non-stop barrage of material, to to the extent that people might be wondering, "is this guy some kind of weird comedian?"

The real skill is working it naturally into a conversation, not coming off like one has a routine, like a comedian, as you say.

Personally, although I read The Game by Neil Strauss, the most valuable advice I ever got out of the whole seduction community was from David DeAngelo: the "Cocky/Funny" approach. I adopted that strategy and it definitely helped me get laid. What I like about it is that you don't have to remember specific lines or anything; it's just a general attitude.

What's more, that attitude works. If you act cocky, you're acting like you're the prize, not the woman. People tend to want what they can't have, so it makes you seem more attractive. This works well when combined with negs, which illustrate to a woman that you're not impressed or intimidated by her looks, like most guys are - and any guy who wants to be attractive to women needs to stand out from the pack.

The "funny" part is more obvious, but it just reminds you not to take anything too seriously - to provide a lighthearted, entertaining interaction, which will be more attractive than the guy who approaches a woman nervously and takes any sign of rejection personally. The "game" metaphor is very helpful because any guy who takes approaching women too seriously, and lets rejection affect him, won't last too long.

One last thought:

The seduction community is constantly changing. Stuff that was once cutting-edge becomes tired and predictable once every guy starts using it. For example, one of the most cliched "pick-up lines" of all time is "what's your sign?" Nowadays, any guy who tried to use this line would be laughed out of the room. However, in the 1960s and 70s, when it originated, it was a way for a guy to prove he was deep, in-tune with his spiritual side in the Age of Aquarius, or whatever. In short, it was cutting-edge.

Well, "what's your sign?" does sound very laughable. However, I've been in deeper conversations with women where I've asked them what's their Myers-Briggs type (eg INTJ) but that's because I'm genuinely asking them that and we've built up to that topic somehow. I don't think one needs a line to use with women to suggest one is more than just superficial.

The same thing is happening with all this PUA stuff. Already, the other day I saw that Mystery has a new book out, where he updates his methods because since the publication of The Game all the old techniques have become stale and ineffective through overuse. The discipline is constantly evolving.

It's interesting to observe the different approaches. Watch Mystery live in the field. He has the whole "peacocking" thing going on, so he dresses like a *****e in the Dr. Seuss hat, eyeliner and painted nails. He's trying to pick up club girls. At the same time, he undeniably piques their interest.

[YT]-9rmevR-NeI[/YT]

Having watched that, now I remember there was some similar technique on that David DeAngelo video where he tells men to start telling their targets these random anecdotes. I don't know if women are always interested to just hear about things they weren't even interested in in the first place, especially if there's no interest even in you. Of course, if they are having a conversation and their attention is at least there, then the anecdotes can work, but not with women who aren't even paying attention or are ignoring you in the first place.

Now, for a change, look at these guys from Simple Pickup. I only heard about them recently, but apparently they represent the new breed. If you look at them, they're just ordinary guys, maybe even a little nerdy. But they just go in there and start saying all kinds of stuff (in this case, lines from Fresh Prince of Bel-Air). Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Yet it clearly seems more natural and endearing than Mystery's elaborate formula.

[YT]QYU0KCq6T5I&feature=relmfu[/YT]

Not saying one is better than the other, just different methods.

That's the new breed? That sounds just like the old breed!! I remember reading about these kinds of pick up lines 20 years ago in books like "The Fine Art of Flirting." It seems like one might say these things more as a joke, and not with the real expectation of picking someone up. These seem even more like the things women make fun of.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

Even the smartest woman can fall prey to a dude who knows how to play.

How do you know they fell prey to his "game" or just wanted a night of fun themselves and stroked his ego by making him think they fell for his "game"? Girls like to just have random sex just like guys do.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

How do you know they fell prey to his "game" or just wanted a night of fun themselves and stroked his ego by making him think they fell for his "game"? Girls like to just have random sex just like guys do.

Yeah basically.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

I think I agree with this here.

I understand that confidence is attractive, and I also understand why, and I'd also like to say that for the most part, I am confident in myself (not that I don't have insecurities of my own - I do - but everyone has them on some level. I don't sit around moping about them)

I'd also like to believe that I'm fairly attractive. I feel I have a good sense of fashion, and I know how to dress well and presentably, and I do have women compliment my appearance fairly regularly. So I think I've got -something- going on.

I do have problems attracting women, and I still don't know totally why. But I also don't believe in going all out with that "game" and "PUA" stuff. I means, SuperMike made a post a few pages back about feet positioning and crap like that, and it's like, okay, any girl that's going to make her decision on me because I had my feet at a 32 degree angle instead of a 45 degree angle... no, I'm not doing that crap.

And as far as female friends go - I agree. I have been, and currently am friends with a lot of different females, and I don't feel like that was some kind of "failure". It's not that I "settled" for being "just friends", it's that I developed good friendships with these women that weren't based on romance or physical attraction.

It is possible.

Don't say what I posted, go find it and quote it.

I did say something to the effect that non-verbal communication is far more important than the exact words you chose.

Some guy succeed in spite of saying the wrong kinds of things with words because their body language and inflection are very sexy.

You might be thinking of the post I made about body language, but I don't recall saying anything about the specific angle of your feet. Body language is more in depth than just where you place your feet. I'm not even going to go into detail on that as you would be better off searching youtube videos for learning body language and other non-verbal communication.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

The real skill is working it naturally into a conversation, not coming off like one has a routine, like a comedian, as you say.

Well, "what's your sign?" does sound very laughable. However, I've been in deeper conversations with women where I've asked them what's their Myers-Briggs type (eg INTJ) but that's because I'm genuinely asking them that and we've built up to that topic somehow. I don't think one needs a line to use with women to suggest one is more than just superficial.

Having watched that, now I remember there was some similar technique on that David DeAngelo video where he tells men to start telling their targets these random anecdotes. I don't know if women are always interested to just hear about things they weren't even interested in in the first place, especially if there's no interest even in you. Of course, if they are having a conversation and their attention is at least there, then the anecdotes can work, but not with women who aren't even paying attention or are ignoring you in the first place.

That's the new breed? That sounds just like the old breed!! I remember reading about these kinds of pick up lines 20 years ago in books like "The Fine Art of Flirting." It seems like one might say these things more as a joke, and not with the real expectation of picking someone up. These seem even more like the things women make fun of.

This is why I find it better to not worry about memorized lines. I don't recall ever using them to flirt or get a number.

Just talk to her, about anything (not absurd like eating glass or something psycho) but just the kind of thing like (vague outline keep in mind) "hi, what's your name?" "I have not seen you before, where are you from"? "what do you do" you can make a comment or little joke about something she is wearing, just light teasing NOT a blatant insult or a comedian joke meant to be super funny. Flirting is not that hard at all. Once you are flirting with her just say "hey, you’re kinda cute" have your cell phone already in your hand, and go for her number "hey, what’s your number? I’ll text you, we will go out some time". – you wont always get her number, she may not even be single, but if you do that simple free flow cold approach, to flirt, to number ask, on a new girl even once every two days then you WILL soon have enough numbers to always have some options.

Memorized lines do work for some guys, but not me. My issue with one liners is I could never remember exactly what to say. I can control my body language, how fast or slow I talk, and my inflection, so I’m better off just free flowing in what I say.

Also, the longer you stick around after you got her number the longer you have to kill your impression by piling on your life story, so you can just say "hey I got to get going", and again it does not have to perfectly match those words.

Remember, you don’t need to use any memorized lines, what I said above are just examples of the idea of what you can say. The point is, talk to her, flirt a bit, little bit of info on both of you, go for numbers, get out.

Now even THAT does not have to always be formulaic, as there are exceptions. One of the most fun relationships I ever had, started with an instant-date. Where I bumped into a cute girl, talked, got her number, but she seemed really eager and giddy and I invited her to a café. We sat, talked, went to a few more places, she did not have to work all weekend, and she spent the night at my place. One of the best experiences of my life. No memorized lines. Just knowing how to read her interest, and transitioning that high level of interest into a date right on the spot.

Ultimately, its your internal "game" that I see as most important. See yourself as the prize.

No amount of memorized lines or fuzzy hats (never did that either)or perfectly sticking to forumula will ever compare to internally seeing yourself as valuable.

 

[LOBO3315a]

Just follow the Alpha Male traits in this video, and you are sure to gain plenty of mates:
[YT]9C8OEDsclUA[/YT]

 

[Dark Raven]

This is why I find it better to not worry about memorized lines. I don't recall ever using them to flirt or get a number.

Just talk to her, about anything (not absurd like eating glass or something psycho) but just the kind of thing like (vague outline keep in mind) "hi, what's your name?" "I have not seen you before, where are you from"? "what do you do" you can make a comment or little joke about something she is wearing, just light teasing NOT a blatant insult or a comedian joke meant to be super funny. Flirting is not that hard at all. Once you are flirting with her just say "hey, you’re kinda cute" have your cell phone already in your hand, and go for her number "hey, what’s your number? I’ll text you, we will go out some time". – you wont always get her number, she may not even be single, but if you do that simple free flow cold approach, to flirt, to number ask, on a new girl even once every two days then you WILL soon have enough numbers to always have some options.

Memorized lines do work for some guys, but not me. My issue with one liners is I could never remember exactly what to say. I can control my body language, how fast or slow I talk, and my inflection, so I’m better off just free flowing in what I say.

I pretty much do all of the above already. I rely more on my wit and if there are any "memorized" lines, it wouldn't be that I try to impose them upon a conversation unnaturally. It would simply be that I can access something quickly in my mind that is relevant to the situation, so that it follows on naturally from what has just been said. And even then, it doesn't tend to be lines but just something funny.

Ultimately, its your internal "game" that I see as most important. See yourself as the prize.

No amount of memorized lines or fuzzy hats (never did that either)or perfectly sticking to forumula will ever compare to internally seeing yourself as valuable.

I would agree with this, and that would be my biggest problem in my case (and probably in many other people's cases). It's the self image thing and what is going on in your head. If you don't think anyone could possibly be attracted to you, then that affects how you relate to others as well as your own confidence. You can learn all these techniques but if internally there is a sense of self loathing then it's difficult to be truly convincing, because your body language won't match what you're saying. That also prevents you from taking the risk of asking someone out because you've already had an internal dialogue with yourself and have convinced yourself that they'll say no and reject you.

It's easier to see yourself as the prize if other women have already affirmed that in you before by finding you attractive or even chasing after you (without you initiating it) or fancying you from afar. If no-one has expressed any attraction before or have implied that you are ugly or ineligible, then you're not going to believe that you are a prize.

 

[Anita18]

I would agree with this, and that would be my biggest problem in my case (and probably in many other people's cases). It's the self image thing and what is going on in your head. If you don't think anyone could possibly be attracted to you, then that affects how you relate to others as well as your own confidence. You can learn all these techniques but if internally there is a sense of self loathing then it's difficult to be truly convincing, because your body language won't match what you're saying. That also prevents you from taking the risk of asking someone out because you've already had an internal dialogue with yourself and have convinced yourself that they'll say no and reject you.

Exactamundo. Even the guy I mentioned before, who was short and overweight and balding and had a bad stutter - he thought of himself as AWESOME, and that's why he got the gorgeous girl. I mean he didn't go out proclaiming he was awesome. He showed it, and people understood immediately what a special personality he had because of his actions. That's all innate, and you have to develop that within yourself without faking it.

I mean, even besides the whole being attractive to women thing, you'll feel A LOT better about yourself and you can't put a price on that.

It's easier to see yourself as the prize if other women have already affirmed that in you before by finding you attractive or even chasing after you (without you initiating it) or fancying you from afar. If no-one has expressed any attraction before or have implied that you are ugly or ineligible, then you're not going to believe that you are a prize.

Now hold up there, grasshopper. You think of people as prizes to be won if their suitor passes enough trials? Stop that thought right now. There are only people compatible with you, and people not compatible with you. Sure there's the whole physical attraction thing, but I know plenty of really good-looking people who are single. There's something else beyond that. People who haven't found their mates IMO simply haven't looked hard enough for them.

 

[Dark Raven]

Exactamundo. Even the guy I mentioned before, who was short and overweight and balding and had a bad stutter - he thought of himself as AWESOME, and that's why he got the gorgeous girl. I mean he didn't go out proclaiming he was awesome. He showed it, and people understood immediately what a special personality he had because of his actions. That's all innate, and you have to develop that within yourself without faking it.

I mean, even besides the whole being attractive to women thing, you'll feel A LOT better about yourself and you can't put a price on that.


Now hold up there, grasshopper. You think of people as prizes to be won if their suitor passes enough trials? Stop that thought right now.

Well I'm not saying that one shouldn't think of themselves as valuable or a prize if they've never been affirmed in that way. I'm not saying that that's a correct way of thinking. However, it is a way of thinking that we can easily fall into, and that I've done myself more than once. It's easy to start putting your self worth in the opinions of others or believing that if others don't openly ever show attraction to you (like they might towards others) that there must be something wrong with you and that this is the truth of the situation.

There are only people compatible with you, and people not compatible with you. Sure there's the whole physical attraction thing, but I know plenty of really good-looking people who are single. There's something else beyond that. People who haven't found their mates IMO simply haven't looked hard enough for them.

Well, I don't know about that. It's not easy to find someone with whom you can really connect. Sometimes even if you do find someone like that, they're not interested. I don't think that one should just settle for anyone. Equally I'm not saying that one should be a perfectionist either. However, there's only so much time within a day or week to even search for mates, and if you spend all your time doing that, you can start to become desperate and it shows. I know people who do that, and then they can't even be content with the people they're currently talking to, because they're always searching for someone else, and it shows on their face and body language.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Don't say what I posted, go find it and quote it.

I did say something to the effect that non-verbal communication is far more important than the exact words you chose.

Some guy succeed in spite of saying the wrong kinds of things with words because their body language and inflection are very sexy.

You might be thinking of the post I made about body language, but I don't recall saying anything about the specific angle of your feet. Body language is more in depth than just where you place your feet. I'm not even going to go into detail on that as you would be better off searching youtube videos for learning body language and other non-verbal communication.

Okay.

One piece of advice that is not hit on here much is the importance of non-verbal communication in attraction.

Women tend to be more natural at this than men, who often show a lack of confidence in how they sit or stand, or even use hand motions to talk when on a "date".

There are a lot of good websites that go into this, as well as some great youtube videos. Try using phrases such as "alpha male body language", or "sexy male body language".

Suggested homework for any guy here who wants to learn something that will help him more than any possible words he could say, and gives him something to be in control of if he is ever at a loss for words.

Most people are shocked when they find out that the biggest attraction mistakes they have made is as simple as leaning forward too much and having feet crossed and legs tucked under them when sitting, OR they are holding their arms in a protective fashion in front of themselves, head down, with feet close together and toes pointing inward, and other weak and submissive body language. There is no smooth talk that can save you from looking like you recently had an orchiectomy.

On the other hand there are men who succeed in spite of saying the dumbest things in front of women, because they have the other 90% of attraction down to an easy habbit in body language that displays a lot of testosterone.

 

[Anita18]

Well I'm not saying that one shouldn't think of themselves as valuable or a prize if they've never been affirmed in that way. I'm not saying that that's a correct way of thinking. However, it is a way of thinking that we can easily fall into, and that I've done myself more than once. It's easy to start putting your self worth in the opinions of others or believing that if others don't openly ever show attraction to you (like they might towards others) that there must be something wrong with you and that this is the truth of the situation.

Yup, I've been there too. The only way to knock yourself out of it is to start believing that there isn't anything wrong with you, you just haven't found the right person yet.

I mean, isn't that sort of the only avenue of belief to take if you're a pretty normal-looking girl who's been single for 6 years?

Well, I don't know about that. It's not easy to find someone with whom you can really connect. Sometimes even if you do find someone like that, they're not interested. I don't think that one should just settle for anyone. Equally I'm not saying that one should be a perfectionist either. However, there's only so much time within a day or week to even search for mates, and if you spend all your time doing that, you can start to become desperate and it shows. I know people who do that, and then they can't even be content with the people they're currently talking to, because they're always searching for someone else, and it shows on their face and body language.

Well no, you shouldn't settle, and that's what I've been saying here the past few days. You HAVE to be able to walk away from something that isn't going anywhere. Hence the "you just need to look harder" ie, "meet more people."

I guess there's always a danger in becoming too desperate or picky, but I don't think that should happen to you if you have a good sense of yourself.

 

[Erzengel]

Well, I don't know about that. It's not easy to find someone with whom you can really connect. Sometimes even if you do find someone like that, they're not interested. I don't think that one should just settle for anyone. Equally I'm not saying that one should be a perfectionist either. However, there's only so much time within a day or week to even search for mates, and if you spend all your time doing that, you can start to become desperate and it shows. I know people who do that, and then they can't even be content with the people they're currently talking to, because they're always searching for someone else, and it shows on their face and body language.

People interested in relationships have to put themselves in opportunities to meet them. A lot of people's problem is they think things will fall into their lap instead of actively searching for them.