The Temple of Doomed Relationships

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Dude, none of that is special. If a woman gives you her number she's at least considered sleeping with you. Good for you meeting lots of women and hitting them up for sex.

What qualifies to you as 'flakiness'? Not wanting to just come over your house? Lot of people don't JUST want to do that. Lots of women want to hang out in public because honestly rape is a reality and getting to know someone before sleeping with them mitigates a whole lot of unnecessary risks.

BRAVO! You realize sex is free. It's not a spectacular revelation.

I think, honestly, a lot of your advice is very bad. A lot of these kids would benefit from having a relationship and they won't build those skills following stuff off of pick-up.com. ATTRACTION is all about confidence and being bold and all that jargon, and if all you want is sex that's fine. Real long term relationships are based on things other than attraction.

Honestly a woman better be more than just attracted to me because this sh** is a b*tch to maintain and it isn't around forever. I'm not getting younger, and neither is anyone else. So my relationships simply can't be about that. Relationships take a lot of compromise and swallowing your pride.

I can't stand the idea of picking up random women in random bars. The only reason I might ever try that is to see if any of this stuff which these pick up artists say works at all and because you're unlikely to see these people ever again. It would be more like an experiment to see with different women, one in succession with another, whether ANY of them might be attracted to me, and of course there would have to be some kind of coach monitoring the situation through some earpiece telling me what I'm doing right or wrong. There would be no kind of expectation of anything at the end of the night. It would be purely an end in itself to measure the social interation between myself and the women and not with the objective of getting laid.

On my own though, I wouldn't be caught dead trying that. I don't want to pick up random strangers within that kind of context. I certainly wouldn't ever just take someone home. I would want to get to know that person first, and see them in different situations, both on their own and within a group (to see how they interact with others - eg their friends, my friends etc). How one behaves both individually and in a group tells you a lot. I don't want someone who can only relate to me and no-one else, or conversely someone who ignores me within a group setting.

And on your own, it's rather divorced from an everyday, real life setting. People can easily be on their best behaviour when they only meet you for a date every now and then. You don't really get to see what they're actually like if they're always putting their best foot forward. I want to see what people are like doing the mundane, or at work, or dealing with a crisis or handling stress.

I'm after a real relationship and don't have time for all this playing around anymore. A relationship can't just be about sex or attraction, because two people can be very attracted but might be completely incompatible with one another. I've heard it said that a kiss brings two people so close together they can't see what's wrong with each other. I don't want to be kissing just anybody, as it can create a false sense of intimacy that clouds your judgment.

The thing one needs to ask is whether, if you hadn't formed an emotional attachment to that person (because of a kiss or through sex) whether, on an objective assessment of them, you would actually find the two of you right for each other under different circumstances. That would avoid a lot of unnecessary hurt and heartache because you wouldn't have even gotten involved in the first place if you could see that person would be bad news for you before forming any kind of bond with them and they've hooked you in.
 
Nope. Sorry.
No he's quite right. Not every human has kids. Humans are a social species and one of the benefits we and some other animals have is that we can find other functions that don't require genetic delivery. Moreover sex is only a part of that anyways. Most of your brains primal notions of survival relate more to survival of the species, not specifically you as an individual.
 
I can't stand the idea of picking up random women in random bars. The only reason I might ever try that is to see if any of this stuff which these pick up artists say works at all and because you're unlikely to see these people ever again. It would be more like an experiment to see with different women, one in succession with another, whether ANY of them might be attracted to me, and of course there would have to be some kind of coach monitoring the situation through some earpiece telling me what I'm doing right or wrong. There would be no kind of expectation of anything at the end of the night. It would be purely an end in itself to measure the social interation between myself and the women and not with the objective of getting laid.

On my own though, I wouldn't be caught dead trying that. I don't want to pick up random strangers within that kind of context. I certainly wouldn't ever just take someone home. I would want to get to know that person first, and see them in different situations, both on their own and within a group (to see how they interact with others - eg their friends, my friends etc). How one behaves both individually and in a group tells you a lot. I don't want someone who can only relate to me and no-one else, or conversely someone who ignores me within a group setting.

Don't knock it 'til you've tried it.

I'm of two minds about the pick-up artist stuff. On the one hand, that stuff works. I admire the fact that a bunch of guys took one of the most crucial aspects of human existence - men attracting women - and basically turned it into a more scientific approach.

This is one of the most important aspects in any man's life, but no man ever really learns how to do this stuff. It's presumed he knows it already. Popular culture promotes stuff like guys being rich and handsome and buying girls drinks, but there is no correlation between that and being successful with women. Most guys just bumble around and hope they get lucky. I admire guys who've learned exactly what triggers attraction and honed their skills until it's almost effortless.

On the other hand, even though I've read the various books by Neil Strauss or Mystery, I've never really followed their advice methodically, and it's due to a lot of the reasons you stated. Frankly, I don't want to have to go through a bar starting conversations with strangers and saying stupid **** that I don't care about. I mean, it's true that if you put in the effort you'll probably be bringing home "9s and 10s" (sorry ladies) eventually on a regular basis. But is it worth it to have to deal with all the crap, all the rejection en route to that goal?

Nevertheless, I will admit that when it comes to the idea of sleeping with random women in random bars, I have the opposite viewpoint as yourself. It sounds like an awesome lifestyle, in theory anyway. I say that because of all the one-night stands I've, barely any originated in bars. As a means to casual sex, I find bars highly overrated.
 
What is POF? I wasn't really meaning just physically but just overall, but you've kind of answered that now.
Plenty of Fish, an online dating site. I had fun shopping for guys. :awesome:

Well that's encouraging to know. The more examples I hear about is very helpful. What attracted her to him?
She had just broken up with her bf, which I think was a long time coming since I actually met him when I met her (since it was assumed he'd be around a lot), and they didn't seem like they got along very well. :o I had considered the Asian guy the rebound, but they ended up married. :funny: She said that they'd been taking a class together and working as teachers in the same district and they'd always gotten along, so they figured they might as well give it a go dating-wise. Kind of boring, but I suppose one you hit your mid-20s you're okay with a little boring.

Oooh, just thought of another great example - my former coworker is Taiwanese and he actually is not attracted to Asian girls. When he worked here he dated a girl who was black. That didn't work out (I always got an earful about his relationship woes..) but now he's in med school and engaged to a really pretty Caucasian girl. :yay:

But yeah, they weren't the bookish momma's boys type of Asian. In fact if you just knew them by personality, you'd probably think they were white.

But if you met an Asian who wasn't either of those two extremes but say, just like your current bf in personality, but looks Asian, would you be open or attracted to him?
Of course!

In fact there were times I was attracted to said coworker, but then he'd do something that annoyed the heck out of me. And then there was the whole "him not being attracted to Asian girls" thing. :funny:

When you say very angular, do you mean like this?

iceman-path.gif


Or this?

200px-Fantastic_Four_310.jpg


Or do you mean kind of like Hilary Swank/ Jennifer Garner?
My Caucasian twin is probably Keira Knightley or Olivia Wilde. I have a very, VERY angular jaw, which from what I understand is not ideal. If I was in mainland China they'd be carting me off to the nearest plastic surgeon to get the bone shaved. :o

And I'm very bony in a lot of places in general.

One of the Asian guys of the type that doesn't appeal to you?
The very epitome of doormat! I mean, if you're considerate that's a plus (my bf insists on seeing me this weekend even though I'm sick - he says he'll be happy to take care of me :oldrazz: ), but I don't want anyone on the brink of committing suicide if we don't work out!

Which yes, that dude admitted to doing when his first relationship ended. :o

Well the only issue is that type of behavior doesn't work for everyone. You can't make someone who's socially inept and tell him to do this and do that, when he's spent a good portion of his life, not being that way.
Yup.

But what should be a universal rule is to stand up for yourself and be ready to leave if you don't get the kind of relationship you want.
 
Everything sounds good on paper.
 
Don't knock it 'til you've tried it.

I'm of two minds about the pick-up artist stuff. On the one hand, that stuff works. I admire the fact that a bunch of guys took one of the most crucial aspects of human existence - men attracting women - and basically turned it into a more scientific approach.

This is one of the most important aspects in any man's life, but no man ever really learns how to do this stuff. It's presumed he knows it already. Popular culture promotes stuff like guys being rich and handsome and buying girls drinks, but there is no correlation between that and being successful with women. Most guys just bumble around and hope they get lucky. I admire guys who've learned exactly what triggers attraction and honed their skills until it's almost effortless.

On the other hand, even though I've read the various books by Neil Strauss or Mystery, I've never really followed their advice methodically, and it's due to a lot of the reasons you stated. Frankly, I don't want to have to go through a bar starting conversations with strangers and saying stupid **** that I don't care about. I mean, it's true that if you put in the effort you'll probably be bringing home "9s and 10s" (sorry ladies) eventually on a regular basis. But is it worth it to have to deal with all the crap, all the rejection en route to that goal?

Nevertheless, I will admit that when it comes to the idea of sleeping with random women in random bars, I have the opposite viewpoint as yourself. It sounds like an awesome lifestyle, in theory anyway. I say that because of all the one-night stands I've, barely any originated in bars. As a means to casual sex, I find bars highly overrated.
I like picking up random women anywhere. For me, sex is a completely physical act with no emotion attached. It feels really good and I want to have it with as many different women I'm attracted to as possible. I don't give a **** about their personality at all if all I want to do is have sex with them. If there's a chance of me dating them, of course. I have the highest standards ever for a girl to date but having sex them with amounts to nothing more physical attraction.
 
I like picking up random women anywhere. For me, sex is a completely physical act with no emotion attached. It feels really good and I want to have it with as many different women I'm attracted to as possible. I don't give a **** about their personality at all if all I want to do is have sex with them. If there's a chance of me dating them, of course. I have the highest standards ever for a girl to date but having sex them with amounts to nothing more physical attraction.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with this.
 
I can't stand the idea of picking up random women in random bars. The only reason I might ever try that is to see if any of this stuff which these pick up artists say works at all and because you're unlikely to see these people ever again. It would be more like an experiment to see with different women, one in succession with another, whether ANY of them might be attracted to me, and of course there would have to be some kind of coach monitoring the situation through some earpiece telling me what I'm doing right or wrong. There would be no kind of expectation of anything at the end of the night. It would be purely an end in itself to measure the social interation between myself and the women and not with the objective of getting laid.

On my own though, I wouldn't be caught dead trying that. I don't want to pick up random strangers within that kind of context. I certainly wouldn't ever just take someone home. I would want to get to know that person first, and see them in different situations, both on their own and within a group (to see how they interact with others - eg their friends, my friends etc). How one behaves both individually and in a group tells you a lot. I don't want someone who can only relate to me and no-one else, or conversely someone who ignores me within a group setting.

And on your own, it's rather divorced from an everyday, real life setting. People can easily be on their best behaviour when they only meet you for a date every now and then. You don't really get to see what they're actually like if they're always putting their best foot forward. I want to see what people are like doing the mundane, or at work, or dealing with a crisis or handling stress.

I'm after a real relationship and don't have time for all this playing around anymore. A relationship can't just be about sex or attraction, because two people can be very attracted but might be completely incompatible with one another. I've heard it said that a kiss brings two people so close together they can't see what's wrong with each other. I don't want to be kissing just anybody, as it can create a false sense of intimacy that clouds your judgment.

The thing one needs to ask is whether, if you hadn't formed an emotional attachment to that person (because of a kiss or through sex) whether, on an objective assessment of them, you would actually find the two of you right for each other under different circumstances. That would avoid a lot of unnecessary hurt and heartache because you wouldn't have even gotten involved in the first place if you could see that person would be bad news for you before forming any kind of bond with them and they've hooked you in.
Then picking up women in bars and/or casual sex isn't for you. Not a huge deal. None of the people I know picked up their SOs or spouses in bars or clubs. Closest one was probably a mixer in a comic book store. :funny:

Dating still involves taking risks and meeting a lot of people before finding someone compatible. That stuff doesn't change.

Just stick to your guns, be yourself, don't be afraid to walk away, and keep trying. :yay:
 
What qualifies to me as physically attractive isn't everywhere. I attract a lot of women but very few pique my interest. I get a lot of numbers but I guess I just do it because it's good sport I suppose because I use so few of them. I like sex but I'm going for first round picks because I ain't serving sh** over here.
 
Sometimes, I don't even have to find them that attractive. There's just something about them that piques my curiosity. Weird, I know. I can't really explain it. Sometimes is just, "Ya know, she's not that hot but I just wanna see what that's like."
 
Dude, none of that is special. If a woman gives you her number she's at least considered sleeping with you. Good for you meeting lots of women and hitting them up for sex.

What qualifies to you as 'flakiness'? Not wanting to just come over your house? Lot of people don't JUST want to do that. Lots of women want to hang out in public because honestly rape is a reality and getting to know someone before sleeping with them mitigates a whole lot of unnecessary risks.

BRAVO! You realize sex is free. It's not a spectacular revelation.

I think, honestly, a lot of your advice is very bad. A lot of these kids would benefit from having a relationship and they won't build those skills following stuff off of pick-up.com. ATTRACTION is all about confidence and being bold and all that jargon, and if all you want is sex that's fine. Real long term relationships are based on things other than attraction.

Honestly a woman better be more than just attracted to me because this sh** is a b*tch to maintain and it isn't around forever. I'm not getting younger, and neither is anyone else. So my relationships simply can't be about that. Relationships take a lot of compromise and swallowing your pride.

So, according to your biology professor relationships are based on equality?
 
Modern relationships, yes. Attraction, not necessarily. :cwink:

I've actually realized this is one reason why women see strip clubs for women (with male strippers) as more of a joke than a turn-on. Because the man in this situation is in a subservient position, it makes the woman feel less sexy. Clearly women like to be dominated to some degree.
 
I like picking up random women anywhere. For me, sex is a completely physical act with no emotion attached. It feels really good and I want to have it with as many different women I'm attracted to as possible. I don't give a **** about their personality at all if all I want to do is have sex with them. If there's a chance of me dating them, of course. I have the highest standards ever for a girl to date but having sex them with amounts to nothing more physical attraction.

Sometimes, I don't even have to find them that attractive. There's just something about them that piques my curiosity. Weird, I know. I can't really explain it. Sometimes is just, "Ya know, she's not that hot but I just wanna see what that's like."

And how's that whole thing been working out for you?
 
So then, what happens to a relationship if attraction dies?
Not sure. Maybe you'd be better off asking someone who's been married more than 30 years. :oldrazz: Your parents, mayhaps?

I know my parents, my mom said it isn't like you're "in love" anymore, but the other person is family and you love them like family.

I talked to an older gentleman earlier this week (I think I did mention my special gift here - people spill their guts to me) who raved about his wonderful marriage of 37 years...until he lost his wife to cancer 5 years ago. He was there at the very end, sponge-bathing her at her weakest, at 66 lbs. A friend asked him how he could stand looking at her like that. He said quite simply, that he didn't marry her because of what she looked like, but because of the entirety of her.

At the very end, she told him that it was ok to remarry, which he's open to doing if he meets the right woman. It was just nice to talk to someone like that who has such a positive outlook on life and had a very happy and healthy and supportive marriage. It was just like talking to Carl from Up, except he hadn't yet turned into a cantankerous old man. :funny:
 
Not sure. Maybe you'd be better off asking someone who's been married more than 30 years. :oldrazz: Your parents, mayhaps?

I know my parents, my mom said it isn't like you're "in love" anymore, but the other person is family and you love them like family.

I talked to an older gentleman earlier this week (I think I did mention my special gift here - people spill their guts to me) who raved about his wonderful marriage of 37 years...until he lost his wife to cancer 5 years ago. He was there at the very end, sponge-bathing her at her weakest, at 66 lbs. A friend asked him how he could stand looking at her like that. He said quite simply, that he didn't marry her because of what she looked like, but because of the entirety of her.

At the very end, she told him that it was ok to remarry, which he's open to doing if he meets the right woman. It was just nice to talk to someone like that who has such a positive outlook on life and had a very happy and healthy and supportive marriage. It was just like talking to Carl from Up, except he hadn't yet turned into a cantankerous old man. :funny:

My own parents are not the right people to ask. Divorced after 18 years of marriage.

My grandparents are all dead, but I did get to know them when they were still here. Interestingly my Grandfather on my Dad's side was a wealthy business owner, and he was a notorious womanizer.

My dad told me a story once, about when he and my mom were in Vegas for a vacation. His father (my grandfather) was staying there too, on a business deal. He called my dad one evening and actually invited him to come up to his hotel room because he had a couple hookers, and he was offering one for my dad. Most of the time he did not have to pay for it, but he was not exactly above using hookers either. Incidentally Dad did not take the offer.

My dad ALSO told me how when he and my uncle were kids, they would do the thing where they played the parents against each other and start disagreements as a way to get what they wanted. My Grandparents sat them down, and together told them "look you little ****s, you two will NOT get between us, we were together before you two existed are you two are not going to create problems between us in order to get your way".

I’ve heard that story a few times when my Dad talks fondly about his own parents.

My grandfather did stay married to his wife of many years, until she died of cancer, in her 60s. Strange as it sounds, I really believe he loved her, in spite of him being a cheating playboy with extramarital sex, no young broad was able to EVER steal him away from my grandmother either. Something died in him when my grandmother died. He was never the same and even had to work with a counselor and had to completely change his living situation because it reminded him of her to the point it was killing him.

I can just see all the self-righteous white knights wanting to toss a rock at my grandfather right now, since they are so holy and pure that God told them they can be the right hand of his judgment.

He was also a very loving father, and grandfather. That’s how I knew him.

Honestly, the most important relationship in my life is my own son.

He is almost 4. I’m very proud of him. He is good looking, very smart, good natured and never gives me any of the problems that other people warned me about with having kids, even when he was two his is the sweetest natured little boy.

I’ve never missed a child support payment. I’m only legally entitled to have him 29% of the time, but my Ex and I have it worked out so I have him almost 50% of the time. I could be one of those bare minimum dads, but honestly I could not live with myself like that. I love my son way too much. My policy is that my son is always welcome in my house.

I make sure he knows how to put on his clothes, brushes his teeth, makes his bed, and picks up his own toys. I was the one who potty trained him, and who would wake up in the middle of the night to take him to the bathroom. I take him swimming every weekend, even to an indoor pool in the winter. I know all of his interests, down to his favorite color (green) and his favorite dinosaur (triceratops). I read him stories every night before he goes to bed, and before his nap in the afternoon. I make sure he eats good and with solid nutrition. We play all sorts of fun games and even build forts in the living room with blankets and the couch cushions. We make art together, I draw the lines, he fills in with crayons and markers. In the summer I grow a row of strawberries right outside my house to he can pick them fresh. I take him everywhere with me. That is just the tip of the iceberg.

When he gets older I will teach him boxing to defend himself, how to dress to impress, how to deal with women, and the importance of his education.

There is my most important relationship.
 
I'm seeing more white dudes snagging the sistas as of late though. They all happen to look like ****ing statuesque supermodels, but hey.

Ugh, black girls be pissing me off lately.

They're all a bunch of Beyonce wanna-be divas.
 
My own parents are not the right people to ask. Divorced after 18 years of marriage.

My grandparents are all dead, but I did get to know them when they were still here. Interestingly my Grandfather on my Dad's side was a wealthy business owner, and he was a notorious womanizer.

My dad told me a story once, about when he and my mom were in Vegas for a vacation. His father (my grandfather) was staying there too, on a business deal. He called my dad one evening and actually invited him to come up to his hotel room because he had a couple hookers, and he was offering one for my dad. Most of the time he did not have to pay for it, but he was not exactly above using hookers either. Incidentally Dad did not take the offer.

My dad ALSO told me how when he and my uncle were kids, they would do the thing where they played the parents against each other and start disagreements as a way to get what they wanted. My Grandparents sat them down, and together told them "look you little ****s, you two will NOT get between us, we were together before you two existed are you two are not going to create problems between us in order to get your way".

I’ve heard that story a few times when my Dad talks fondly about his own parents.

My grandfather did stay married to his wife of many years, until she died of cancer, in her 60s. Strange as it sounds, I really believe he loved her, in spite of him being a cheating playboy with extramarital sex, no young broad was able to EVER steal him away from my grandmother either. Something died in him when my grandmother died. He was never the same and even had to work with a counselor and had to completely change his living situation because it reminded him of her to the point it was killing him.

I can just see all the self-righteous white knights wanting to toss a rock at my grandfather right now, since they are so holy and pure that God told them they can be the right hand of his judgment.

He was also a very loving father, and grandfather. That’s how I knew him.

Honestly, the most important relationship in my life is my own son.

He is almost 4. I’m very proud of him. He is good looking, very smart, good natured and never gives me any of the problems that other people warned me about with having kids, even when he was two his is the sweetest natured little boy.

I’ve never missed a child support payment. I’m only legally entitled to have him 29% of the time, but my Ex and I have it worked out so I have him almost 50% of the time. I could be one of those bare minimum dads, but honestly I could not live with myself like that. I love my son way too much. My policy is that my son is always welcome in my house.

I make sure he knows how to put on his clothes, brushes his teeth, makes his bed, and picks up his own toys. I was the one who potty trained him, and who would wake up in the middle of the night to take him to the bathroom. I take him swimming every weekend, even to an indoor pool in the winter. I know all of his interests, down to his favorite color (green) and his favorite dinosaur (triceratops). I read him stories every night before he goes to bed, and before his nap in the afternoon. I make sure he eats good and with solid nutrition. We play all sorts of fun games and even build forts in the living room with blankets and the couch cushions. We make art together, I draw the lines, he fills in with crayons and markers. In the summer I grow a row of strawberries right outside my house to he can pick them fresh. I take him everywhere with me. That is just the tip of the iceberg.

When he gets older I will teach him boxing to defend himself, how to dress to impress, how to deal with women, and the importance of his education.

There is my most important relationship.
That is how it should be. :yay:

Although it would be really funny if he wasn't the casual sex type of guy, just to piss you off. :hehe:

My bf's own parents divorced when he was very young, although his mom's been married for at least 10 years to another man, who he gets along with very well. So I absolutely think that the kids should come first. No child should be exposed to an unhappy marriage. If the marriage has to dissolve for the best of the parents, then that's best for the child. My bf and his parents are my prime example of divorced parents getting along. Everyone even gets together for Thanksgiving. It's pretty awesome, and I don't think my bf has any trust or commitment issues from it. If both parents are civil and supportive and don't talk trash about each other, I think the kid can come out of it pretty unscathed.

It seems like your son is going to come out of that pretty well too SuperMike. :yay:


As for your grandfather, I don't think it's uncommon for men to find sex elsewhere if they aren't getting it at home. I have a female friend who did the casual sex thing and was not above sleeping with married men to get her needs fulfilled. There were multiple occasions where the guy was very much happily married but the wife did not want sex and he loved her too much to get a divorce. It's probably the main reason why my mom didn't worry that my dad would be off on business trips for so long. She didn't really care where he put his junk (although he's one of those computer nerds who'd rather be working than sexing :funny: ), and she knew that he was too devoted to his family to just up and leave. As long as everyone's okay with what's going on, I have no issue.
 
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I can't stand the idea of picking up random women in random bars.

Don't knock it 'til you've tried it.

I'm of two minds about the pick-up artist stuff. On the one hand, that stuff works. I admire the fact that a bunch of guys took one of the most crucial aspects of human existence - men attracting women - and basically turned it into a more scientific approach.

This is one of the most important aspects in any man's life, but no man ever really learns how to do this stuff. It's presumed he knows it already. Popular culture promotes stuff like guys being rich and handsome and buying girls drinks, but there is no correlation between that and being successful with women. Most guys just bumble around and hope they get lucky. I admire guys who've learned exactly what triggers attraction and honed their skills until it's almost effortless.

On the other hand, even though I've read the various books by Neil Strauss or Mystery, I've never really followed their advice methodically, and it's due to a lot of the reasons you stated. Frankly, I don't want to have to go through a bar starting conversations with strangers and saying stupid **** that I don't care about. I mean, it's true that if you put in the effort you'll probably be bringing home "9s and 10s" (sorry ladies) eventually on a regular basis. But is it worth it to have to deal with all the crap, all the rejection en route to that goal?

Nevertheless, I will admit that when it comes to the idea of sleeping with random women in random bars, I have the opposite viewpoint as yourself. It sounds like an awesome lifestyle, in theory anyway. I say that because of all the one-night stands I've, barely any originated in bars. As a means to casual sex, I find bars highly overrated.

Guys, even the best of the PUA stuff does not actually require you to step foot in a bar ever. They are a convenient setting in some areas, and so when those books are written some of the stuff is implicitly in a bar setting, but it all need not be explicit.

Women have lives outside the clubs, and they are every bit as accessible even when they are not all dolled up with their drunk girlfriends.

Lot of the stuff you could pick up from those books can be applied to the girl you bump into at any store, or even one taking a walk with her poodle, waiting for a haircut, or even one who knocks on your door as part of a political campaign.

You also do not have to do everything right. If you have even half ways decent skill, and avoid making big mistakes, and have taken from what has been broken down into a science, then you are still miles ahead of the average frustrated chump, and you will still have plenty of options.

You still need to practice and experience, but you don’t really need bars or clubs for that.

Bottom line is if you don’t like drinking, and you don’t like Bars, then don’t go into them. Bars are not the end all be all of finding women. Unless you are looking for a girl who likes to get drunk.
 
That is how it should be. :yay:

Although it would be really funny if he wasn't the casual sex type of guy, just to piss you off. :hehe:

My bf's own parents divorced when he was very young, although his mom's been married for at least 10 years to another man, who he gets along with very well. So I absolutely think that the kids should come first. No child should be exposed to an unhappy marriage. If the marriage has to dissolve for the best of the parents, then that's best for the child. My bf and his parents are my prime example of divorced parents getting along. Everyone even gets together for Thanksgiving. It's pretty awesome, and I don't think my bf has any trust or commitment issues from it. If both parents are civil and supportive and don't talk trash about each other, I think the kid can come out of it pretty unscathed.

It seems like your son is going to come out of that pretty well too SuperMike. :yay:


As for your grandfather, I don't think it's uncommon for men to find sex elsewhere if they aren't getting it at home. I have a female friend who did the casual sex thing and was not above sleeping with married men to get her needs fulfilled. There were multiple occasions where the guy was very much happily married but the wife did not want sex and he loved her too much to get a divorce. It's probably the main reason why my mom didn't worry that my dad would be off on business trips for so long. She didn't really care where he put his junk (although he's one of those computer nerds who'd rather be working than sexing :funny: ), and she knew that he was too devoted to his family to just up and leave. As long as everyone's okay with what's going on, I have no issue.

My own father is not either. It could be one of those things that skips a generation.
 


See, I knew you weren't a total Neanderthal. :funny: Just someone who knows what he wants and goes out to get it. [...]

Your advice won't work for every guy out there - lots of guys aren't just looking for sex, but a relationship. But they still need to be ready to leave if they don't get what they want. I think that's the issue for 90% of the guys here. If you search enough, you WILL find what you're looking for. There's absolutely no need to settle for the cute girl you crush on but there's no reciprocation.


This.

That's only if you approach people at arm's length to begin with.

I have this special gift, especially with older people - they spill their guts to me. They will converse with me for an hour at most and they will tell me their deepest feelings about their kids, or their marriages, or everything in between. I think this is because I love to listen to them.

People ARE looking for connections, but they won't open up to you if you don't open yourself up first.

No that's not what I'm getting at. Of course people are looking for connections, but more often than not, in our world today (and this has more to do with the way things work nowadays) those attempts at connection fail. When people open-up, only rarely is there any true empathic understanding. Most of the discussions here are seemingly polarizing because they fall to one set of doctrine or another, and because of that every one is assuming that the other person is speaking in absolutes or extremes. That doesn't only happen online. It's everywhere. Heck, entire art movements revolve around that.

Can we still connect though? Absolutely! That's why those connections are so precious and important.

My own problems of confidence (and... clarity? Here at least?) have little to do with that. Believe it or not but I do open up.

Well then throw caution to the wind and give it a go! The danger with building that moment up is what if it doesn't end up the way you want? Might as well just get it over with and don't overthink it, you know?

And there's really no use wishing that the women in your life will see you differently. If they don't, the onus is on you to continue your search. You can't change people unless they want to be changed.

Over thinking... :) yeah... I'm good at doing that (why else on god's green earth would I be here?!). Thing is, from what little has happened in the past month I'm certain she'll say no. :dry:
Isn't that reason enough to drop it? You've said it yourself to not linger around an emotion with zero reciprocity.

I'm utterly confused at this moment. It's like Erzengel says -- if I linger on those feelings it'll get worse since there's no chance with her whatsoever. That's why I was more concerned with developing my own self-confidence and self-esteem (but of course, that's automatically regarded as "becoming a *****e").

No

Not really. Usually they have a lot of identities frankly.

Feelings of alienation are not good, or in my opinion healthy for your self image. They have a word for what you're doing and it's called labelling, and its not a good thing. I don't think of people as occupations or labels first and humans second, nor do I feel alienated. If you do feel this way it probably inhibits your ability to relate to people and them to you.

Once again, you are focused on the actual identity of the individuals. It's not that difficult to acknowledge that there are two sides to a person - the one that's displayed externally and the one that exists on a more private level. That external self is always an image that you're portraying of yourself out there for the world to see. It's a single image. Despite whatever other dimensions you're trying to work on. People focus on an IDEA OF YOU. Not you completely. Unless they happen to be close friends and family.

During social interactions it's that image that is presented. I believe in that image being as true to your own self as possible, and I've always tried doing that. For some reason women seem to regard that as "friend-worthy", not "relationship-worthy". Well that's fine by me. Just y'know, dismissive-girl, you were special to me in a way no one else was. But I had to suppress that part of me from the social image because apparently it's not working. Apparently what you want is a little more macho in your man. Well good for you, and good bye?

I hope my perspective is a bit clearer now.

Dude, none of that is special. If a woman gives you her number she's at least considered sleeping with you. Good for you meeting lots of women and hitting them up for sex.

What qualifies to you as 'flakiness'? Not wanting to just come over your house? Lot of people don't JUST want to do that. Lots of women want to hang out in public because honestly rape is a reality and getting to know someone before sleeping with them mitigates a whole lot of unnecessary risks.

BRAVO! You realize sex is free. It's not a spectacular revelation.

I think, honestly, a lot of your advice is very bad. A lot of these kids would benefit from having a relationship and they won't build those skills following stuff off of pick-up.com. ATTRACTION is all about confidence and being bold and all that jargon, and if all you want is sex that's fine. Real long term relationships are based on things other than attraction.

Honestly a woman better be more than just attracted to me because this sh** is a b*tch to maintain and it isn't around forever. I'm not getting younger, and neither is anyone else. So my relationships simply can't be about that. Relationships take a lot of compromise and swallowing your pride.

But we are not talking about long-term relationships here. Of course multiple aspects of the beta-type become just as important as the alpha when you're *in* a healthy relationship. But what about trying to get the girl you like? Does that work on BETA alone? The answer is no. She needs to have some sexual attraction to you. As well as emotional and even on some level, intellectual. Trust, attraction and clarity remember? But for those of us who have zero confidence in their own self, THAT SHOWS and that's a downer. There is nothing wrong in working to build that up.

Well the only issue is that type of behavior doesn't work for everyone. You can't make someone who's socially inept and tell him to do this and do that, when he's spent a good portion of his life, not being that way.

I disagree. People can work to change that social-image, if nothing else. And I also disagree with the fact that you're condemned for life if you're socially inept. You can overcome those shortcomings. And no, not in trying to be pretentious. People have more than just one aspect of those labels in them. For guys like myself, we REALLY DO need to come off as less needy and more confident.

This too. Also, many people won't appreciate the crowds and environments where you find these oversexed ladies. A lot of people like quiet date activities and don't function well in high pressure situations. Can't make those people change and there's no reason they should. There's a lot of hot women out there that want guys like that.

The bars, crowds, and sexually-charged world that's described doesn't even EXIST in the place I'm talking from. And yet those subtleties of attraction that do. You're right that there are a lot of women out there who like guys like that, in fact I'll argue that any mature girl would want someone who's balanced. But where do you divide sexual attractiveness and rational assessment?
 
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