BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 4

[Cats]

Perhaps I'm wrong then. Still, for all the complaining people made 8 years ago with regards to Batman and Harvey Dent's death I'm surprised no-one is batting that much of an eyelid over what the character does in this.

As someone who doesn't like Batman killing -

The killing done in the Knightmare sequence were... well... within a nightmare, and an Armageddon scenario. People tend to throw their rules out the window when humanity itself is struggling for survival. I don't like it, but it's a nightmare so... *shrug*

I could see him taking effort not to kill anyone during the fist fights. And I believe perhaps some might go to the hospital in a coma state, ofc we don't know if they would die from their injuries, but you don't exactly see him killing them. There was such a debate on Batman's no-kill rule before the launch of BvS, and people found issues with him also in the comics. As far as I'm concerned, I don't want to see him directly causing the death of a man with his own hands. I can still wave it away if it's indirect or accidental.

The only two problematic parts were the two guys with the grenade. But as I recall (you may have to refresh my memory), the grenade belonged to the goons, and Batman had his hands full at the time. The other part is of course the highly debatable Batwing scene, which I'd hoped to be radio controlled by Lex, while it turned out to be Alfred. So technically it wasn't Bruce directly killing them, although I guess what Alfred did, he's responsible for as well.

 

[Val_Zod]

The only way to make Batman's leniency of killing criminals work is to have it be tied to Robin's death. But my biggest issue with it is the tie in comics make it clear he doesn't. There's mis-communication concerning the cohesiveness of the universe.

 

[smsvmos]

There are many scenes in this movie where you could argue that they actually killed a person. For example when Superman takes down the North African Warloard. People are saying that he killed him but that's not true. Yes he put the guy threw a wall but he went threw the wall with him, so he cushioned the impact. The same can be said about Bats and KGBeast. Yes he shot the gas tank behind him and there was an explosion but maybe KGBeast is alive and from now on he will wear the mask

 

[TheScarecrow]

There are many scenes in this movie where you could argue that they actually killed a person. For example when Superman takes down the North African Warloard. People are saying that he killed him but that's not true. Yes he put the guy threw a wall but he went threw the wall with him, so he cushioned the impact. The same can be said about Bats and KGBeast. Yes he shot the gas tank behind him and there was an explosion but maybe KGBeast is alive and from now on he will wear the mask

Spoiler

Dude...wishful thinking. These are human beings. Superman did not cushion the blow - he pushed him through the wall, didn't pull him through afterwards. KG Beast was exploded. There is no logical way either of these men survived

 

[NateHevens]

For all you fans of Superman who are pissed that Batman kicked his ass... take comfort in the fact that Superman was clearly the good guy in this fight. Batman is a straight up evil *******. I hated him in this fight. I actually wanted Superman to kill him. And Batman is my favorite hero...

 

[TDKR1977]

As someone who doesn't like Batman killing -

The killing done in the Knightmare sequence were... well... within a nightmare, and an Armageddon scenario. People tend to throw their rules out the window when humanity itself is struggling for survival. I don't like it, but it's a nightmare so... *shrug*

I could see him taking effort not to kill anyone during the fist fights. And I believe perhaps some might go to the hospital in a coma state, ofc we don't know if they would die from their injuries, but you don't exactly see him killing them. There was such a debate on Batman's no-kill rule before the launch of BvS, and people found issues with him also in the comics. As far as I'm concerned, I don't want to see him directly causing the death of a man with his own hands. I can still wave it away if it's indirect or accidental.

The only two problematic parts were the two guys with the grenade. But as I recall (you may have to refresh my memory), the grenade belonged to the goons, and Batman had his hands full at the time. The other part is of course the highly debatable Batwing scene, which I'd hoped to be radio controlled by Lex, while it turned out to be Alfred. So technically it wasn't Bruce directly killing them, although I guess what Alfred did, he's responsible for as well.

Alfred didn't have control at that point, it was all Batman. Which I'm fine with, as they are trying to blow him out of the sky.

 

[Cats]

Spoiler

Dude...wishful thinking. These are human beings. Superman did not cushion the blow - he pushed him through the wall, didn't pull him through afterwards. KG Beast was exploded. There is no logical way either of these men survived

You forget that this is the Snyder-verse and not Nolan-verse. With a more fantasy take on both Gotham and Metropolis, virtually anything is possible.

 

[X Knight]

So does batman kill or not? Or maybe he's just brutal?

As someone who believes he shouldn't, I would like to prepare myself and there seems to be mixed thoughts in here...

seems like he kills.

 

[TDKR1977]

seems like he kills.

He does when he has no other choice.

 

[Plaidchuck]

He does when he has no other choice.

You always have a choice.

Gee what superhero would say something like that?

 

[Mjölnir]

He does when he has no other choice.

Nothing indicates that he had no other choice in the chase scene. You can disable cars without blowing them up, along with everyone inside.

 

[smsvmos]

Spoiler

Dude...wishful thinking. These are human beings. Superman did not cushion the blow - he pushed him through the wall, didn't pull him through afterwards. KG Beast was exploded. There is no logical way either of these men survived

There are thousands of war heroes that have survived explosions and Firefighters that have survived explosion fires. Wishful thinking I think not. But again those scenes are debatable scenes where it could go either way. Just like in the Killing Joke story where ppl say that Batman didn't kill the joker but the writer of the book says that he did.

 

[OutOfBoose]

For all you fans of Superman who are pissed that Batman kicked his ass... take comfort in the fact that Superman was clearly the good guy in this fight. Batman is a straight up evil *******. I hated him in this fight. I actually wanted Superman to kill him. And Batman is my favorite hero...

Not straight up. He didn't know Superman didn't kill the senator. He was one of many who didn't do their research and blamed Superman. But is it really hard to understand that, since Bruce pulled his own employees from rubble.

It's another question he went too emotional and didn't research the situation enough.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

Not straight up. He didn't know Superman didn't kill the senator. He was one of many who didn't do their research and blamed Superman. But is it really hard to understand that, since Bruce pulled his own employees from rubble.

It's another question he went too emotional and didn't research the situation enough.

The World's Greatest Detective. Didn't do his research. 10/10 Snyder. Truly "for the fans."

 

[MrsKent26]

seems like he kills.

Hm. I'll wait to see it myself before complaining too much, but I don't like the idea.

I've always viewed the "teetering on the edge" concept of batman to be one of the character's strong points. It's a little less fun if he's already fallen off the edge.

 

[Knight-Tale]

there are thousands of war heroes that have survived explosions and firefighters that have survived explosion fires. Wishful thinking i think not. But again those scenes are debatable scenes where it could go either way. Just like in the killing joke story where ppl say that batman didn't kill the joker but the writer of the book says that he did.

ummm

 

[jmc]

What I think is the most mind boggling thing about this movie is that there was never any real reason for these two to fight at all. It effectively comes down to a misunderstanding both sides could have easily diffused. The only reason they fight is because of the title, not because it's warranted.

 

[NateHevens]

Not straight up. He didn't know Superman didn't kill the senator. He was one of many who didn't do their research and blamed Superman. But is it really hard to understand that, since Bruce pulled his own employees from rubble.

It's another question he went too emotional and didn't research the situation enough.

No really. Batman was clearly the bad guy. That's not a criticism, by the way. I thought Affleck's acting was incredible and he really sold it. I got the impression that they wanted me to hate Batman in the fight and they succeeded in all the best ways.

I do have some major issues with this film (I'll be putting a spoiler-light review on my blog as soon as I finish writing it), but the acting was not one of them.

 

[Monochron]

So does batman kill or not? Or maybe he's just brutal?

As someone who believes he shouldn't, I would like to prepare myself and there seems to be mixed thoughts in here...

Batman murders the crap out some thugs in the movie.

 

[MrsKent26]

No really. Batman was clearly the bad guy. That's not a criticism, by the way. I thought Affleck's acting was incredible and he really sold it. I got the impression that they wanted me to hate Batman in the fight and they succeeded in all the best ways.

I do have issues with this film (I'll be putting a spoiler-light review on my blog as soon as I finish writing it), but the acting was not one of them.

If I recall correctly, you were skeptical of the film before seeing it?

 

[IncognitoWalrus]

What I think is the most boggling thing about this movie is that there was never any real reason for these two to fight at all. It effectively comes down to a misunderstanding both sides could have easily diffused.

Exactly. A much more compelling idea would've been Superman and Batman genuinely thinking the other is in the wrong, and both would be inclined to take the other one out. We'd get a fight between a motivated Supes and a motivated Bats.

 

[Supermanila]

Not straight up. He didn't know Superman didn't kill the senator. He was one of many who didn't do their research and blamed Superman. But is it really hard to understand that, since Bruce pulled his own employees from rubble.

It's another question he went too emotional and didn't research the situation enough.

I think CNN was reporting that it was a suicide bomber or a terrorist attack right? Can't remember too well. Besides, why would Superman use a bomb. But then again, Superman could've easily come out of the building and say something instead of leaving and hiding.

 

[Monochron]

What I think is the most mind boggling thing about this movie is that there was never any real reason for these two to fight at all. It effectively comes down to a misunderstanding both sides could have easily diffused. The only reason they fight is because of the title, not because it's warranted.

You know something I really didn't like? Superman is trying reason with Batman, telling him it's all Luthor's fault and then suddenly decides to just push Batman away. Why?

 

[X Knight]

Hm. I'll wait to see it myself before complaining too much, but I don't like the idea.

I've always viewed the "teetering on the edge" concept of batman to be one of the character's strong points. It's a little less fun if he's already fallen off the edge.

agreed.

I'm still seeing this on Saturday, and I will form my own opinion.

but I'm not going to lie. it's been a major bummer reading all these reviews and spoilers for the last few days. my excitement and expectations for the movie have dropped big time.

 

[BattleAngel]

The World's Greatest Detective. Didn't do his research. 10/10 Snyder. Truly "for the fans."

Seriously...

So does batman kill or not? Or maybe he's just brutal?

He kills relentlessly, throughout the film. Crushing people with the Batmobile, automatic gunfire, etc. He is not shown to be troubled by the loss of human life whatsoever...

As for this...

He killed in much adored '89, he killed in Returns, he killed Harvey Dent, he allowed Catwoman do all the dirty work for him in TDKR (also if I remember correctly, he shoot the convoy with his the Bat)

I have never been OK with Batman's kills on screen. '89 and Returns were meant to evoke the golden age version of the character, who did kill. The Nolan version was supposed to be someone who had the 'one rule' - it was one of the major through-lines of the saga. He hangs up his cape and cowl for 8 years after killing Dent. I've complained for years about Nolan's Batkills... starting with the 50 some odd league of shadows ninjas he killed (as well as the person they wanted him to execute) in an explosion. But Nolan's Batman seemed to feel those kills. He probably kept count. Snyder's Batman doesn't give one flying shniz.