BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 5

[storyteller]

Batman did not appear aware of who Superman was. Superman though likely put it together. See's Bruce at the party and later peaks under the mask.

 

[jmc]

It's quite obvious that the cutting is intentional. No one is suggesting that Snyder closed his eyes and just randomly selected the cuts and order of scenes.

The issue people have is that they feel the aesthetic didn't work for this different medium. At least the way he did it.

It flat out doesn't work. By trying to cut it like a comic book you're essentially assuming the audience knows where the characters are and what the character motivations are. There was not one establishing shot of Gotham City for instance. It's ridiculous editing.

 

[Clark-Kent]

Batman did not appear aware of who Superman was. Superman though likely put it together. See's Bruce at the party and later peaks under the mask.

He didn't know apparently until Clark called out for Martha and Lois had to explain. ehhh

 

[Kanon]

1) Not everyone knows their secret identities

2) There is no context or situation in which Batman would know who Superman is or who Martha is.

Well, Lois was smart enough to figure out Superman was Clark Kent, then Lex Luthor was smart enough himself, Luthor found the other metahumans and knows everything there is to know about them, except WW.

So yeah, the only one who doesn't know anything is Bats (and WW, but she has no stakes in that game, and is not a major player in the title conflict)

 

[the last son]

After this movie, I'm convinced Joker will be Robin. Honestly that would be the least of this universes problems. The least.

 

[kguillou]

Even though it's not a big deal, isn't it a little odd when Superman says "Is she with you?" and Batman replies "I thought she was with you?" By this point in the movie Batman already knows who Diana is and is kinda acting like he doesn't know where this girl came from.

 

[matt47]

3 years in development and nobody from the cast & crew or even Warner Bros for that matter told Snyder that the editing and pacing were god awful.

Because they only just cut the movie down to 2 hrs 30 mins very recently acording to Snyder.

 

[Jaxon]

Even though it's not a big deal, isn't it a little odd when Superman says "Is she with you?" and Batman replies "I thought she was with you?" By this point in the movie Batman already knows who Diana is and is kinda acting like he doesn't know where this girl came from.

I think Batman was thinking that maybe Superman called her there to help. He isn't sure what the connections are between the metas yet.

 

[Clark-Kent]

They could fix a lot of the film with editing/pacing but the problem is they can't fix Jesse as Lex... unless they shot 2 versions of him. One where Jesse delivers without Red Bull beforehand, and the one we got to see.

 

[Rapunzel]

Because they only just cut the movie down to 2 hrs 30 mins very recently acording to Snyder.

I suspect this is the case...and I feel sorry if Snyder couldn't get his original version out in theaters because of studio interference.

I'm not sure that's the case...but I feel it's possible. I'm really dying to see the ultimate edition and judge. If it's a much better film than the theatrical...WB was silly not to release it.

 

[Clark-Kent]

I suspect this is the case...and I feel sorry if Snyder couldn't get his original version out in theaters because of studio interference.

I'm not sure that's the case...but I feel it's possible. I'm really dying to see the ultimate edition and judge. If it's a much better film than the theatrical...WB was silly not to release it.

That still won't solve Lex not working, but definitely if it was edited much better and more cohesive could improve the film.

 

[matt47]

I suspect this is the case...and I feel sorry if Snyder couldn't get his original version out in theaters because of studio interference.

I'm not sure that's the case...but I feel it's possible. I'm really dying to see the ultimate edition and judge. If it's a much better film than the theatrical...WB was silly not to release it.

Yeah...but Snyder would have known that releasing a 3 hour movie was never gonna happen.

 

[kguillou]

With 30 whole minutes gone, it really does make you wonder. For example, there just HAD to have been more to the scene where Superman talks to Martha...right? Or the senate hearing. Or Clark's investigation of Batman. Or the actual Batman/ Superman showdown.

The director's cut MUST be a much better film just by pure logic.

 

[Rapunzel]

I suspect there's more to the knightmare too....did we ever see those folks on horseback? Only seen the film once so far, and can't remember.

 

[Mjölnir]

I suspect this is the case...and I feel sorry if Snyder couldn't get his original version out in theaters because of studio interference.

I'm not sure that's the case...but I feel it's possible. I'm really dying to see the ultimate edition and judge. If it's a much better film than the theatrical...WB was silly not to release it.

A 3 hour film will risk making less money due to being able to fit less screenings in, as well as that longer movies are not always as appealing to the GA. It's an expected stance from the studio.

It's certainly possible that the longer cut is better, but this story wouldn't even need 2.5 hours to be told well. It doesn't have more characters than an X-Men movie, and certainly not as many as Civil War (which is slightly shorter, although we don't know how well it works yet). I think it actually felt long while watching it.

 

[Verick808]

Unless Snyder was led to believe a 3 hour theatrical version was a possibility it's his responsibility to make sure the film fits into a reasonable length.

 

[Mr. Wayne]

A 3 hour film will risk making less money due to being able to fit less screenings in, as well as that longer movies are not always as appealing to the GA. It's an expected stance from the studio.

It's certainly possible that the longer cut is better, but this story wouldn't even need 2.5 hours to be told well. It doesn't have more characters than an X-Men movie, and certainly not as many as Civil War (which is slightly shorter, although we don't know how well it works yet). I think it actually felt long while watching it.

I think the problem with a 3 hour blockbuster movie is when you make it. In order to do it and have it make the kind of money a shorter movie would you've got to have special conditions. You've either got to be James Cameron who is obviously the king of the box office for whatever reason(not diminishing his ability but it's crazy how much money his films make) OR you have to be coming off of a major critical and financial success ala the LOTR trilogy. The anticipation for ROTK was insane because of the first 2 movies and as such people were more than willing to sit through an epically long movie to learn the fate of characters they'd fallen in love with. If MOS had been better received they probably could have gotten away with 3 hours. If this had been better received they definitely could have gotten away with 3 hours for JL. I don't think Snyder has made enough people love his versions of the characters enough to justify people wanting to sit through 3 hours of them.

 

[jokesonm3]

This was a good opportunity to let Cavill truly shine as an actor, allowing him to give a great speech about Truth, Justice and the American way.

Alas Sack Snyder zipped Superman's mouth again and screw over his reputation as a superhero by making s*** blow up in his face.

 

[Jaxon]

Unless Snyder was led to believe a 3 hour theatrical version was a possibility it's his responsibility to make sure the film fits into a reasonable length.

I think 3 hours were shot in line with the script and it may have become very hard to edit it down. They always over shoot by about that much but in this case they probably didn't realise until wrap that they didn't want to cut much out.

 

[Wolfgangamadeus]

This was a good opportunity to let Cavill truly shine as an actor, allowing him to give a great speech about Truth, Justice and the American way.

Alas Sack Snyder zipped Superman's mouth again and screw over his reputation as a superhero by making s*** blow up in his face.

And now he's zipping up the character http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/26/batman-v-superman-ending/2

Him on Superman's death.

This really has me worried.

 

[Mjölnir]

I think the problem with a 3 hour blockbuster movie is when you make it. In order to do it and have it make the kind of money a shorter movie would you've got to have special conditions. You've either got to be James Cameron who is obviously the king of the box office for whatever reason(not diminishing his ability but it's crazy how much money his films make) OR you have to be coming off of a major critical and financial success ala the LOTR trilogy. The anticipation for ROTK was insane because of the first 2 movies and as such people were more than willing to sit through an epically long movie to learn the fate of characters they'd fallen in love with. If MOS had been better received they probably could have gotten away with 3 hours. If this had been better received they definitely could have gotten away with 3 hours for JL. I don't think Snyder has made enough people love his versions of the characters enough to justify people wanting to sit through 3 hours of them.

Good points. As you say there have been successful long movies but it's probably right in that you have to earn it somehow as it's generally not preferred.

 

[jokesonm3]

Zack Snyder's the worst thing to happen to Superman since Superman IV, i'm near convince that he hates Superman.

 

[Verick808]

I think the problem with a 3 hour blockbuster movie is when you make it. In order to do it and have it make the kind of money a shorter movie would you've got to have special conditions. You've either got to be James Cameron who is obviously the king of the box office for whatever reason(not diminishing his ability but it's crazy how much money his films make) OR you have to be coming off of a major critical and financial success ala the LOTR trilogy. If MOS had been better received they probably could have gotten away with 3 hours. If this had been better received they definitely could have gotten away with 3 hours for JL.

They might still get away with a 3 hour JL. Especially if the director's cut of BvS is better recieved. Between changing director this far in, delaying the film, or extending the film to make better use of Snyders abilities the later seems easiest.

 

[Zimmy]

Ok, I watched this afternoon. So happy I avoided the spoilers.
I expected to hate it but ended up wondering why so much backlash.

I followed for the most part but my question would be...
(Apologies in advance if they have been asked before)

Who was the hero that spoke to Bruce about Lois being the key?
I'm pretty up on my comic geek stuff but did not recognize.
I know Flash speaks to Batman from the future in Crisis but that wasn't Flash, I don't think.

 

[brownknightrise]

When Superman shows up in front of the Batmobile, he tells Batman to not show up when they shine his light in the sky. This is right after Bruce was chasing the truck with rocket launchers. Why didn't Superman do anything to those guys and just talked to Batman? They were clearly shooting guns and rockets.