The Walking Dead The Walking Dead Season 3 Episode 16 "Welcome to the Tombs" Discussion Thread

[Lily Adler]

Hershel's getting too soft.

Good. He's fulfilling his purpose as the moral compass of the group.

 

[Evelisse]

What's the point in following the governor?

Again, the character loses most of his importance without anyone to govern. A dictator is nothing without an army / country / people.

Now he's just a crazy guy with a gun. What was that line from the Simpsons "gone mad without power?"

They should have shot him in the back of the head, and joined Rick's group like the others.

just less than 10 mins. after just trying to take the prison and attempting to kill Rick and crew? I don't know about that, Carl would have probably shot them on principle. I mean the group Rick welcomed to the prison, were obviously not the ones that took up arms and tried to end Rick and crew, aside from Karen, and who knows what the show runners want to do with her.

 

[thalidomide]

Good. He's fulfilling his purpose as the moral compass of the group.

I agree! Someone has to do it since Dale is already dead.

 

[Destructus86]

The finale wasn't nearly as bad as people made it out to be in my opinion. Could it have been better? Yes. But it was still entertaining and I like that they saved a villain for later on (possibly)

I'm looking forward to the changes season 4 though.

 

[Elevator Man]

Well I mean choices were slim for Martinez and Evil Tyreese, kill the Gov, go and hope Rick takes them in? Or try and make it on their lonesome. Maybe they felt Rick wouldn't have them after all they have done, who knows, they've backed the wrong horse. They have seen The Gov get into horrible situations and almost always walked away unscathed. So in the end, they are alive and if brought back next season, they still have the opportunity to be killed by the Gov yet.

Rick might have taken 'em in. Daryl sort of bonded with Martinez back at that meeting between Rick and the Gov. Also they took in Merle, who was considered a threat to the group. I know they took Merle in not only b/c of Daryl, but b/c of what he knows of the Gov. also.

What's the point in following the governor?

Again, the character loses most of his importance without anyone to govern. A dictator is nothing without an army / country / people.

Now he's just a crazy guy with a gun. What was that line from the Simpsons "gone mad without power?"

They should have shot him in the back of the head, and joined Rick's group like the others.

I agree with this. And not only both of them are crazy to follow the Gov. but are idiots as well. They had the perfect opportunity to run away or kill the Gov. They decided to do neither b/c they are just as crazy as Phillip is. That (for me) is the only explanation of why they continue to accompany him.

Why would you kill your leader? Especially when you have very similar personalities and beliefs? You really think Martinez, if he were the next governor, would not have prisoners and torture chambers? Those 2 are as crooked as the governor so I expected them to side with him. Ride or die friends right there, true soldiers.

Martinez was just a "loyal" goon that only took orders from the Gov. without asking questions. I always got the impression (before he decided to stay with the Gov.) that he did the Gov's deeds to survive (as well as for Woodbury). He also delved in his past when he was conversating with Daryl. Despite the deeds he'd do for the Gov. he didn't seem too bad of guy.

Also in the mid-season opener Martinez saved a little girl from a walker at the arena when Rick's group threw gas bombs and opened fire on them. The guy wasn't all bad.

And did you see the horrified look on Martinez's face when the Gov. gunned down those people. He was scared and almost started to use his gun in defense, but sadly didn't. When he and the other guy left with the Gov. that's where I questioned Martinez's sanity. I mean who would want to join a maniac who gunned down defenseless people (and just b/c they were whining about nearly dying)? That should've been where the Gov. crossed the line for Martinez b/c now he's killing their own people and not just anybody that's considered a threat to them.

I do agree that he must've been as psychotic as Phillip all along. The other guy is just a grunt. He's a follower so I'd figure he wouldn't do anything. I just expected more from Martnez.

 

[OB12]

^ The way I interpreted Martinez' and Shumpert's reaction to the Governor flipping out is that they are basically loyal soldiers. Both were shocked at what they were seeing and probably not as crazy as the Governor, but they had to make a decision. What are they going to do? Shoot the Governor and then it is the two of them out on the road by themselves? They can't go to the prison, they would be dead on sight, no way Rick takes either one in. Woodbury is likely a lost cause at this point, no reinforcements in the town and they have to figure that Rick and Daryl will come looking soon enough. So they had a decision to make, try to survive on their own with no supplies or continue following this madman. It may not be the best decision they've made but it is not totally indefensible.

 

[Obsidian Idea]

^ I agree...keep your enemies closer. I think also, like most of the Woodbury bunch, they have become dependent on the Governor's strength and authority. Even they were visibly shaken and horrified at his acts...but I think they feel secure with the mad man. I think they'll end up zombie chow in the long run...and the Gov will survive of course.

 

[Elevator Man]

The Gov doesn't have any supplies either. They're all in the same boat. It's not going to get any better if the madman they continue to follow doesn't have anything of use either. Also I think the Gov. wasted all his ammo on his "helpless army". At this point the Governor is no longer a "governor". He's just a madman with two "knuckleheads" that'll follow him b/c they don't have any common sense that in the long run Phillip will get them both killed. Btw, I think those two can survive out there on there own. They made it this far.

 

[Schlosser85]

Honestly, Martinez strikes me as more of a soldier/fighter than Philip himself.

Philip doesn't really strike me as a hardcore survivalist type like Michonne or Daryl or Merle, he's a mentally unstable former disgruntled office drone who got to play quasi military dictator in a world where everyone higher up the ladder than him is dead, and he's a charismatic speaker with natural authority, so he got away with it for a while.

But I think trekking around out in the wilderness is gonna be a whole lot different from what Philip's used to, even post-apocalypse. He doesn't look like someone who's had to scrabble for survival or been on the run like Rick. He still has that "genteel Southern gentleman" vibe about him, even if it's gotten frayed over the course of the season.

Crazy does not equal tough. Philip is definitely the first, but I'm not convinced how much of the second he is, on his own with no firepower to back him up.

 

[Elevator Man]

I agree. The moment Philip feels the pressure or when things doesn't go his way. He looses it. As well as what is left of his sanity by the minute. I don't know why some think Martinez and the other guy are better off with the Gov. (a mentally unstable man) than on their own. Those two look like survivors and can handle the apocalypse as much Rick's group can and maybe more. It'll be interesting next season if both are still in Phillip's camp. Probably most likely.

To be fair about Phillip's survival skills he did survive a swarm of walkers (that Andrea unleashed on him) in that abandoned warehouse two episodes ago. Eventhough it was never explained how he got out of there alive without a bite or scratch on him, but you never know.

 

[Schlosser85]

I agree. The moment Philip feels the pressure or when things doesn't go his way. He looses it. As well as what is left of his sanity by the minute. I don't know why some think Martinez and the other guy are better off with the Gov. (a mentally unstable man) than on their own. Those two look like survivors and can handle the apocalypse as much Rick's group can and maybe more. It'll be interesting next season if both are still in Phillip's camp. Probably most likely.

To be fair about Phillip's survival skills he did survive a swarm of walkers (that Andrea unleashed on him) in that abandoned warehouse two episodes ago. Eventhough it was never explained how he got out of there alive without a bite or scratch on him, but you never know.

Yea, I think Martinez at least would be better off on his own. He seems like a soldier and a fighter. God only knows where Philip's gonna lead them. To death, sooner or later, most likely.

As far as Philip surviving a swarm of walkers, yea, I think when it comes to just hand-to-hand fighting with walkers or even people, Philip can handle himself fairly well. I just don't think he's used to roughing it out in the wilderness away from his cushy town.

And like you say, he doesn't deal with frustration well. I remember in the meeting with Rick where he mentioned working in an office before the apocalypse, and talked about having to take orders from "someone half my age, his IQ even lower". It's like the former disgruntled, frustrated office drone now gets to unleash the idle daydreams he might have had way back when of just picking up a gun and mowing down all his stupid employees/co-workers who won't listen to him.

 

[Jick]

Ok, so having watched the finale some days ago, I thought it was the best so far. I see people disliking it, but I wasn't expecting something really different from what we got.